Ok I have one scripture for the sinless

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Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#1
Aug 28, 2012
19,211
2,547
113
#1
Yes I know we have enough of these threads already but I really want to get to the core of this whole being sinless debate going around the forums.

I have one scripture to present to you and I want your honest opinion as to what it means, if you wish to present scripture to counter I ask that you first answer my scripture and then I will do my best to answer yours.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
 
Joidevivre

Joidevivre

Senior Member
#2
Jul 15, 2014
3,838
271
83
#2
Of course we have sin - it is and always will be in our flesh.
We will always need to know that we are given the righteousness of Christ in the eyes of our heavenly Father.
We will always need His grace and mercy.
We will always remember the blood of Christ that cleanses us of all unrighteousness every time we partake of communion.
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#3
Aug 28, 2012
19,211
2,547
113
#3
Joidevivre said:
Of course we have sin - it is and always will be in our flesh.
We will always need to know that we are given the righteousness of Christ in the eyes of our heavenly Father.
We will always need His grace and mercy.
We will always remember the blood of Christ that cleanses us of all unrighteousness every time we partake of communion.
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Yes but some here would disagree. there is a heated debate going around the bdf about being sinless, some truly believe they are sinless and that if we are not sinless we are living in sin and letting sin have power and control over us and many disagree and try to convince these certain ppl who i will not say out of respect that they are wrong but this debate never ends it never gets resolved.

So I want to end it I want to get to the very core of this debate and sinless doctrine, I have one simple scripture and I want an honest opinion of what it means for those who believe in the sinless doctrine
 
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DesiredHaven

Guest
#4
#4
There is some who might say, they have not sinned (meaning in the past ) saying, I "have not" sinned which is a lie because the scriptures tells us all have sinned. Yours in the above appears to speaking of having sin in our flesh (in the present) which grace is for, that sin shall not have dominion over us because of the same. The other is the act of commiting sin (in its continuance) and then it mentions that there are those who cannot cease from sin.

For me, the grace is so that the sin (in our flesh) which we walk not after will not have dominion over us being led by the Spirit, because when we walk by the Spirit we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, as it speaks of lust conceiving and bringing forth sin. The Grace of God teaches and even empowers us to deny worldly and ungodly lusts.
 
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3Scoreand10

Guest
#5
#5
Blain said:
Yes but some here would disagree. there is a heated debate going around the bdf about being sinless, some truly believe they are sinless and that if we are not sinless we are living in sin and letting sin have power and control over us and many disagree and try to convince these certain ppl who i will not say out of respect that they are wrong but this debate never ends it never gets resolved.

So I want to end it I want to get to the very core of this debate and sinless doctrine, I have one simple scripture and I want an honest opinion of what it means for those who believe in the sinless doctrine
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Young man, you are wasting your time.
They have lied so much about their walk with God, that they believe their own lies.
They will continue to make those of us who are honest and agree with God's word the villain.
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#6
Aug 28, 2012
19,211
2,547
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#6
3Scoreand10 said:
Young man, you are wasting your time.
They have lied so much about their walk with God, that they believe their own lies.
They will continue to make those of us who are honest and agree with God's word the villain.
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Perhaps your right however jesus himself even challenged the Pharisee's about their hearts and faith and he must have done this for a purpose other than to prove them wrong.

This debate has been going on with little progress and much strife and so I want to end it with the only thing that can- the scriptures
 
wattie

wattie

Senior Member
#7
Feb 24, 2009
3,018
1,019
113
New Zealand
#7
Yeah man.. absolutely nobody.. before or after conversion are actually sinless.

I think a lot of people look at when the bible says 'be perfect' and say- gotta be sinless!

'Perfect' in the biblical sense of the word is about maturity and completeness.. not sinlessness.

Check out the Strong's Concordance:

Hebrew: H1584 (there are also many other definitions-- but all along these lines of completion.. come to and end..)
גּמר

gâmar
gaw-mar'
A primitive root; to end (in the sense of completion or failure): - cease, come to an end, fail, perfect, perform.


Greek: (also a lot of other definitions but along the lines of maturity and completeness again)
G5046
τέλειος
teleios
tel'-i-os
From G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.




People can over come sin to a degree.. but never be completely sinless.

Sin less... not be sinless.

When there is scripture admonishing people to sin not.. it is most often about the particular sin in question.. eg.. an adulterer told to 'sin no more'.. is primarily about adultery.

Or saying a believer 'does not sin'... is most likely about continuing, repeated sin without conviction to change.

Context is key here
 
Joidevivre

Joidevivre

Senior Member
#8
Jul 15, 2014
3,838
271
83
#8
Blain said:
Perhaps your right however jesus himself even challenged the Pharisee's about their hearts and faith and he must have done this for a purpose other than to prove them wrong.

This debate has been going on with little progress and much strife and so I want to end it with the only thing that can- the scriptures
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This debate has not been "ended" in over thousands of years - and you will not be the one to do it. To even start a thread with this subject only opens up the same doors for the same lies to be spoken again. And again.

35scoreand10 is right - you are wasting your time.
 
3

3Scoreand10

Guest
#9
#9
Blain said:
Perhaps your right however jesus himself even challenged the Pharisee's about their hearts and faith and he must have done this for a purpose other than to prove them wrong.

This debate has been going on with little progress and much strife and so I want to end it with the only thing that can- the scriptures
Click to expand...
Sometimes you just have to turn it over to the Lord.
There are some on this site that I have began to pray that God will do what ever is necessary to stop them from teaching their lies.
 
P

phil112

Guest
#10
#10
Blain said:
Yes I know we have enough of these threads already but I really want to get to the core of this whole being sinless debate going around the forums.

I have one scripture to present to you and I want your honest opinion as to what it means, if you wish to present scripture to counter I ask that you first answer my scripture and then I will do my best to answer yours.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
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Blain, we are born into sin. If you are trying to justify your refusal to stop sinning, you're barking up the wrong tree. "Go and sin no more" is a command. You tell me, truthfully, that you believe God tells you and me to do something it is impossible to do. Can you tell me that?
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#11
Aug 28, 2012
19,211
2,547
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#11
phil112 said:
Blain, we are born into sin. If you are trying to justify your refusal to stop sinning, you're barking up the wrong tree. "Go and sin no more" is a command. You tell me, truthfully, that you believe God tells you and me to do something it is impossible to do. Can you tell me that?
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If you explain to me what you honestly think the scripture I posted means I will answer you
 
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3Scoreand10

Guest
#12
#12
phil112 said:
Blain, we are born into sin. If you are trying to justify your refusal to stop sinning, you're barking up the wrong tree. "Go and sin no more" is a command. You tell me, truthfully, that you believe God tells you and me to do something it is impossible to do. Can you tell me that?
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Just like I said Blaine.
You are the villain.
You are the dirt bag for agreeing with God's Word.
 
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phil112

Guest
#13
#13
3Scoreand10 said:
Just like I said Blaine.
You are the villain.
You are the dirt bag for agreeing with God's Word.
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What did I say that was wrong? Why do you want to vilify me? You said God's word, so bring His word to the table. Where did I go amiss?
 
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phil112

Guest
#14
#14
Blain said:
If you explain to me what you honestly think the scripture I posted means I will answer you
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Dude, if I have to explain to you what I "think" you meant, you aren't communicating. Words mean something. Use the ones that best relate what you want me to know. I responded in words that said what I want to say.
 
GracethroughfaithinChrist

GracethroughfaithinChrist

Senior Member
#15
Sep 6, 2014
7,034
5,435
113
#15
Sin is in our flesh,....... that's why we physically die, only Jesus Christ was sinless because He was not born of Adams seed but through Mary receiving the Holy Spirit. Jesus did not have a earthly dad but a heavenly Father.
So if a man claims to be without sin he is in fact a liar, there is no truth in him.
 
Jon4TheCross

Jon4TheCross

Senior Member
#16
Oct 19, 2012
1,864
7
38
#16
Having sin in the flesh is different than the spirit.
I am not my flesh...even as Jesus said I will never die. When I was born again...my identity is from heaven...not here.
I do not sin...but have sin in the flesh until it is also completely removed/refined out/purged.

Romans 7 combined with the following passage confirms the two separate identities.


1 John 3:8-10Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

8*He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9*Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10*In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
 
Jon4TheCross

Jon4TheCross

Senior Member
#17
Oct 19, 2012
1,864
7
38
#17
We can see an example of the two identities also in Jesus directing words towards Peter but calling him satan.
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#18
Aug 28, 2012
19,211
2,547
113
#18
phil112 said:
Dude, if I have to explain to you what I "think" you meant, you aren't communicating. Words mean something. Use the ones that best relate what you want me to know. I responded in words that said what I want to say.
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If you cannot explain to me what you think this scripture says and means then I have nothing more to say to you
 
V

Vernon

Banned
#19
Jan 6, 2014
991
27
0
#19
All flesh is perishing because of sin, as Christians our flesh is already dead, it died with Christ on the cross. Our souls are one with the Holy Spirit and so shall never die. We abide in tents which are condemned by sin, we live in the hope of new bodies made in the image of the flesh of Christ. Our flesh is dead so sin has no hold on us, we are bond servants of Jesus Christ, and rest in his works, we live by the Spirit and no longer live in the flesh. If we continue in the flesh then we have no hope of salvation, but if we live by the Holy Spirit then we are children of God. We are not yet perfected because we remain in a tent of flesh, but we push forward to receive the solid Rock building which has been promised us by Jesus Christ our Lord.
May God have mercy on all our souls in Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.
 
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phil112

Guest
#20
#20
Blain said:
If you cannot explain to me what you think this scripture says and means then I have nothing more to say to you
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If you have to have someone explain scripture, that's okay. If you come on a bible forum and spout like you know scripture, and then duck like a dodge ball player, you're weak.
You don't know scripture. You're weak. And I owe no one an explanation if that explanation isn't going to educate them. I believe in God, I believe the bible is His word, and all my posts are aligned with scripture. You, son, need to grow up. Get on your knees, off the bottle, and stop venturing into strong meat. You, like so many others, will choke on it. Just like you are doing now.
 
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