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V

Vernon

Banned
#21
Jan 6, 2014
991
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#21
"God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." John 4:24

"You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me." John 5:39

it is our relationship with the Living God that is essential, not our knowledge of scripture.
 
Bowhunter2394

Bowhunter2394

Banned
#22
Apr 9, 2015
995
10
0
#22
Vernon said:
"God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." John 4:24

"You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me." John 5:39

it is our relationship with the Living God that is essential, not our knowledge of scripture.
Click to expand...
Agree 100% all those who Stood in front of Christ, God manifest in the flesh, when He Was here the 1st Time, these were the ones that KNEW SCRIPTURE , inside out, upside down, right side left side. Wore them on their outerwear To appear Righteous and Holy... but when they Stood before the Author of those Scriptures they were daily seeking and professing, THEY DID NOT KNOW HIM, what did they do? slandered Him, Blasphemed Him, Blasphemed the Holy Ghost, Accused Him falsely, finally they plotted and Held Illegal trials according to their Jewish Law and turned Him over to Pilate and the Romans for Death, they did this for 'spite-envy', the manifestation of the fruit of the devil, exactly what Jesus TOLD THEM who their spiritual father , was the devil. It is no different today. He used the Scripture to draw me in in 1993 then Save Me in 1994. After that it was all, absorbing the Word as the Word became ALIVE as you read it. I would of NEVER started reading the Bible on my own free will.. no.. not the state I was in.. HE DREW ME.. and when He draws a Sinner to repentance, He means business! indeeD.
 
Utah

Utah

Banned
#23
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
251
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#23
maxwel said:
MarcR,
I'm not sure what the OP was ultimately suggesting,
but there are entire religious movements that DO denigrate the study of scripture.

There are many who genuinely do say, from the pulpit, people shouldn't study the bible so much, and people who study are all "pharisees". There are MANY who actually ATTACK the very act of studying the scripture.

The truth is, we are COMMANDED to study the scripture.
It isn't even optional.
Click to expand...
I remember one student in seminary who proudly proclaimed there were no Bibles in the pews, and the only Bible in the entire congregation was at the pulpit; sometimes the pastor opened it and read to the people, other times he did not. Fifteen years later I'm literally shaking my head in befuddled amazement as I'm typing this out.
 
Utah

Utah

Banned
#24
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
251
0
#24
Vernon said:
"God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." John 4:24

"You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me." John 5:39

it is our relationship with the Living God that is essential, not our knowledge of scripture.
Click to expand...
True dat, my Brother, but reading Scripture is like enjoying desert after having a fantastic dinner. :)
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#25
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
3,650
113
#25
It seems a strawman is being erected here.
One that reads and studies is likened to a stuffed pig without Life.
But what is being missed is one who takes in Scripture with a true understanding of it, where it leads to a deeper faith and trust in Jesus.
 
JesusLives

JesusLives

Senior Member
#26
Oct 11, 2013
14,551
2,172
113
#26
All I know is once I was blind, but now I see.... the reason I see is because Jesus Loves Me. As I read His Word daily I draw closer to Him and understand just how much He loves me and wants me to share that love with others.

Every day I have a close encounter as I wake up and my heart is still beating, I breathe the air God has provided for me and drink the water He created, eat the food He has provided for me and get to love those around me even if they don't want to love me.

I get to read the words God inspired men to write as they were moved by His Holy Spirit and I am taught I should love my enemies and do good to those who may not be so good to me.

All I know is once I was dead, but now I live and have the peace and joy that only our God can give.
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#27
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,189
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#27
crossnote said:
It seems a strawman is being erected here.
One that reads and studies is likened to a stuffed pig without Life.
But what is being missed is one who takes in Scripture with a true understanding of it, where it leads to a deeper faith and trust in Jesus.
Click to expand...
I think what is trying to be contrasted here is the Knowledge of God.

Consider Paul, before the road to Damascus.

Then Paul, afterwards.

You can know the scriptures inside and out but without coming to Christ its not profitable. After coming to Christ, it is essential, I think, because this is when our understanding has been opened.
 
Bowhunter2394

Bowhunter2394

Banned
#28
Apr 9, 2015
995
10
0
#28
crossnote said:
It seems a strawman is being erected here.
One that reads and studies is likened to a stuffed pig without Life.
But what is being missed is one who takes in Scripture with a true understanding of it, where it leads to a deeper faith and trust in Jesus.
Click to expand...
No strawman, but unfortunately what you 'typed' is True, nothing wrong with reading and studying the Word of God, but what is the Source of the 'to be led of'? I go right back to Illumination? is out of a carnal spirit, or Genuinely Led of the Spirit..... if its out of the carnal spirit, then what you have is human understanding of a Supernatural God, human understanding which is natural, attempting to 'lasso' a Supernatural God and make Him 'natural' to their 'liking and human understanding'.. thus that is what you have today, the confusion, the chaos, the cut up Jesus's all over this planet........ God is not the Author of that .. nope... and when you have all this human understanding without Spiritual Illumination, then you truly have flesh/bone, filled with the Word in the Mind and understanding, but without the Spirit, or Right Illumination.. and this is the Situation Jesus God manifest in the flesh encountered when He was here the 1st time... He said their father, was not the Father, for if they were of God they would believe Him, but they had another father, this is true today and the planet is full of that today . It Truly Is, which should tell you something, of the Times we live in.. indeed!
 
Bowhunter2394

Bowhunter2394

Banned
#29
Apr 9, 2015
995
10
0
#29
Grandpa said:
I think what is trying to be contrasted here is the Knowledge of God.

Consider Paul, before the road to Damascus.

Then Paul, afterwards.

You can know the scriptures inside and out but without coming to Christ its not profitable. After coming to Christ, it is essential, I think, because this is when our understanding has been opened.
Click to expand...

exactly and the Source of that Drawing or 'desire' to Read is Christ Himself, thru the paraclete. The desire to 'read' or get knowledge, not based on man's carnal desire, but Led of the Spirit as the Paraclete, even after Genuine Conversion, 'woos and coos' the soul, spirit, mind, heart of the Convert to fill his/her understanding with the Knowledge of God, THE WORD literally BECOMES alive as you Read AND stUDY, AS He leads you to.. indeed!
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#30
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
3,650
113
#30
Grandpa said:
I think what is trying to be contrasted here is the Knowledge of God.

Consider Paul, before the road to Damascus.

Then Paul, afterwards.

You can know the scriptures inside and out but without coming to Christ its not profitable. After coming to Christ, it is essential, I think, because this is when our understanding has been opened.
Click to expand...
The difference is reading without the Holy Spirit and reading with Him.
So all true Christians being born again have that 'encounter '.
 
Last edited:
MarcR

MarcR

Senior Member
#31
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
#31
maxwel said:
MarcR,
I'm not sure what the OP was ultimately suggesting,
but there are entire religious movements that DO denigrate the study of scripture.

There are many who genuinely do say, from the pulpit, people shouldn't study the bible so much, and people who study are all "pharisees". There are MANY who actually ATTACK the very act of studying the scripture.

The truth is, we are COMMANDED to study the scripture.
It isn't even optional.
Click to expand...
Thank You! I was not aware of that outside the RCC, and the cults.
 
Chica

Chica

Banned
#32
Mar 12, 2015
629
9
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#32
Angela53510 said:
I'm not exactly sure I understand why a solid knowledge of the Scriptures is antithetical to also having an intimate relationship with Jesus Christ.

In fact, I will go so far as to say, without a solid knowledge of the Bible, experiential knowledge is going to lead you astray, sooner or later. It is why cults thrive.

"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge;because you have rejected knowledge,
I reject you from being a priest to me.
And since you have forgotten the law of your God,
I also will forget your children." Hosea 4:6


I just know that I met Jesus Christ 35 years ago, coming up this May. The first thing he told me was to read, read, read and study the Bible. That has never proven me wrong!
Click to expand...
Angela53510 said:
I'm not exactly sure I understand why a solid knowledge of the Scriptures is antithetical to also having an intimate relationship with Jesus Christ.
Click to expand...
Was kinda wondering that myself since we are told to study to show thy self approved and we are admonished to be like the Bereans.

I have had spiritual things happen to me. I have heard the Lord audibly, He saved me before I was even born again from getting mixed up with Astrology.

When I was new to the faith I would read articles where people said that all a person needed to do was read the Bible to come to a knowledge of the truth. It didn't work that way with me, before I was saved the Bible was nothing more than a bunch of jibberish to me, not til I was born again did it really become The Living Word.

We are now under the ministry of the Holy Spirit, Jesus said He would lead us into all truth.
 
Bowhunter2394

Bowhunter2394

Banned
#33
Apr 9, 2015
995
10
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#33
crossnote said:
The difference is reading without the Holy Spirit and reading with Him.
So all true Christians being born again have that 'encounter '.
Click to expand...

Back in 1994 I encountered some very CHURCHY people, who were very very 'skeptical' of His Saving Grace in my life. I came back and was led to a few 'denominations', allowed to 'testify' even a very high pentecostal denomination, those who had been in 'church' their whole life.. after My testimony, would either stand up and speak in defiance, or mocking tone.. 'well I've never done all those bad things, but I'm still a Christian'.. you could see the 'anger/jealousy' towards the Spirit of Grace.. it was very evident they were in Christ because of their 'church membership'. and it showed later by their slanderous/almost murderous motives.... many in churchianity today.. are going to realize it wasnt 'church' or memberships that Got them to Heaven, even though they had elaborate knowledge of the Word and its meanings... thats the Reality between a God Centered Salvation and man driven gospel. the emnity is there, and it shows in the fruit of those who are still un Regenerated from on High, but born of the flesh.
 
V

Vernon

Banned
#34
Jan 6, 2014
991
27
0
#34
Stuffed pig without life ? Wow where was that implied?

I truly do not understand your position, so God is only alive in scripture? He doesn't abide with us? He hasn't made himself known to you?
What is the problem? Is it because I am catholic and can not possibly have a relationship with God?

God is alive and his Spirit abides with me, His truth is the revelation of Sacred Scripture. I was converted while studying the scripture, the Holy Spirit entered my heart and became one with my soul. Becauese of this experience I have an assurance of things hope for, a knowledge of things unseen (faith). Hebrews

Is God real to you or just letters in a book?
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
#35
#35
Bowhunter2394 said:
Back in 1994 I encountered some very CHURCHY people, who were very very 'skeptical' of His Saving Grace in my life. I came back and was led to a few 'denominations', allowed to 'testify' even a very high pentecostal denomination, those who had been in 'church' their whole life.. after My testimony, would either stand up and speak in defiance, or mocking tone.. 'well I've never done all those bad things, but I'm still a Christian'.. you could see the 'anger/jealousy' towards the Spirit of Grace.. it was very evident they were in Christ because of their 'church membership'. and it showed later by their slanderous/almost murderous motives.... many in churchianity today.. are going to realize it wasnt 'church' or memberships that Got them to Heaven, even though they had elaborate knowledge of the Word and its meanings... thats the Reality between a God Centered Salvation and man driven gospel. the emnity is there, and it shows in the fruit of those who are still un Regenerated from on High, but born of the flesh.
Click to expand...
There's real enmity against the gospel of grace by faith. Also, there are those awash in scripture they don't understand. Every cult twists scripture into lying doctrines. You see huge posts by people, full of scripture, misapplied.

Knowing God must start at the foot of the cross, true repentance and faith in the Lord Jesus, receiving the Holy Spirit, born again of the Spirit, or all the Bibles on earth will do one no good.
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#36
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,189
113
#36
crossnote said:
The difference is reading without the Holy Spirit and reading with Him.
So all true Christians being born again have that 'encounter '.
Click to expand...
That leaves a lot of room for mens teaching and deception.

I'm not saying that is what you are trying to do. I basically agree with you.

Just because I may be unfamiliar with a certain way the Lord Saves I won't discount it...
 
Bowhunter2394

Bowhunter2394

Banned
#37
Apr 9, 2015
995
10
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#37
JesusIsAll said:
There's real enmity against the gospel of grace by faith. Also, there are those awash in scripture they don't understand. Every cult twists scripture into lying doctrines. You see huge posts by people, full of scripture, misapplied.

Knowing God must start at the foot of the cross, true repentance and faith in the Lord Jesus, receiving the Holy Spirit, born again of the Spirit, or all the Bibles on earth will do one no good.
Click to expand...
the Cross of Christ, a NULLIFIER of spiritual pride.. oh yes.. you can see and discern the ENEMIES OF THE CROSS of Christ.. oh yes.. that is very very evident today.... Abiding in Its Shadow... is to Abide in Him, Christ Crucified,

the Name of the LORD is a Strong Tower, the Righteous runneth into it , and is SAFE. PROVERBS 18:10
 
Bowhunter2394

Bowhunter2394

Banned
#38
Apr 9, 2015
995
10
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#38
God Himself could take any one of the stones in my parking and turn them into a Son of Abraham, this is what John told the Leaders of the Religious elite of his day.... he was pointing out that all their knowledge and studying about the Word was 'void' unless they Knew the Author of the Living Word, Christ, whom John was forerunner of ... the Word tells us that MANY in Israel's religious elite, REJECTED the Counsel of God and John, satisfied in their own human pride and word knowledge as 'sufficient' for Salvation, these obviously REPUGNANT and hardend to the Spirit of Grace, the Grace of God that would be Manifested to these same religous hypcocrites who rejected the Counsel of God, these would meet the Living Word later, and He would have Words for them as John also did....
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#40
Aug 28, 2012
19,215
2,551
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#40
So basically we are discussing which is more important the actual relationship with God or studying his word correct? Well let me just say you cannot have one without the other. you can study the bible all you want but without an actual relationship with God you will remain blind however if you do have such a relationship with him yet never read the bible then do you really want to know him that badly?

Everyone has different ways of seeking God of spending time with him of learning more of who he is. I have several ways I will go on walks and talk with him I will sometimes lay in bed and simply be with him I even find him and and grow closer to him simply by being on cc and yes the word too. Studying the bible is simply a way of seeking him growing closer to him knowing more of him it isn't like studying normal books
 
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