Sinners who love their Sin

[thecreationtutor]

How do I begin?

Some people who say "if you don't repent of a sin, and you die, you'll go to hell - referencing a believer.

Some people try to play the role of the Holy Spirit and try to convince others(there victim a beleiver) of the sin they see - being right in their own eyes

Some people want to be the "licence living" police, but applying their legalism to others.

Do you think they actually Just love their sin in the first place, and judge others because they think they are getting enjoyment from their sin, that they wish they could have?

There attitude - All you other guys get to enjoy your sin and then God's going to accept you... I have to avoid my sin, that I secretly love, so in Pharisee manner I will harp on you with the Bible in a way that you will see that I am correct, therefore making you miserable because you can be like me - therefore justifying myself and my love for sin



[h=1]Romans 8:28-31English Standard Version (ESV)[/h]28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good,[a] for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
[h=3]God's Everlasting Love[/h]31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be[b]against us?

On our best day we deserve hell
On our worst day we deserve hell

God's hope is not that we someday will not sin
God doesn't love a future version of a more obedient you
God has paid for your sins, past, present, and future in Jesus Christ

oh but you can't teach that, because people will do whatever they want - the sin policeman says(secretly loves his sin)

-if they do that - the love of God does not abide in them - their not saved, hello...
-But to the believer when you remind them of this - they draw closer to God because God is for them, and they Glory in Jesus Christ


Not everyone is saved or elect that claim Jesus Christ, duh... Have you not understood this, why then become a sin policeman? Get grounded in good theology not the bad

 

[Jason0047]

The Scriptures say, have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather... reprove them.

How can one reprove the unfruitful works of darkness if one is producing unfruitful works of darkness themselves?

In other words, if anyone wants to cure the false belief that they can sin and still be saved.... just pick up your Bible and start reading it with God's help and you will be cured of such a wrong belief in no time.

 

[Jason0047]

But the Bible does say that the reason why people do not come to the light is because they love darkness or their evil deeds (i.e. sin). See the Condemnation mentioned in John 3:19-21.

 

[WebersHome]

-
Human nature being what it is; I think it's safe to say that people who don't
love at least some of their sins are psychologically imbalanced, and headed
for a nervous breakdown: if not already. I don't think it's humanly possible
to go through life perpetually hating one's self without incurring serious mental
and/or emotional damage.

========================================

 

[thecreationtutor]

Jesus came to save sinners - Paul himself said he was the worst, and that he falls in many ways - sinless perfectionism is stupid, and dishonest

If and when we sin we have an advocate - Jesus Christ the Righteous - it's His perfect obedience, not mine - It's His perfect life - not mine

John 10 - my sheep hear my voice, and they follow me - Jesus says what - turn and follow Me - Confess our sins - Jesus forgives and says turn and follow me. Those who don't really know Christ - don't hear His voice - makes no difference if your a pew warmer or not, it makes no difference if you read the Bible all the time, or just a few times



It's not my job to be sin police with others, but myself. If I see someone in sin - pray for them, if they are close in life proximity - pray that God would give you a chance and words to admonish or rebuke the person - and that the Holy Spirit will change that.

Passivity is just telling people that - you better make sure you don't sin again

 

[Utah]

How can one reprove the unfruitful works of darkness if one is producing unfruitful works of darkness themselves?

I'm a sinner saved by grace. I share the Gospel with people every single day by Word, action and example. In doing so I have helped strengthen people's faith in Christ which bears untold good fruit for them, to God's happiness and glory.

 

[WebersHome]

-

Passivity is just telling people that - you better make sure you don't sin
again

I often encounter people preaching "repent of your sins" in order to be
saved. But I have to wonder how successful those preachers are at living up
to their own spiritual counseling. Take for example dishonesty. If everybody
had be 100% truthful from this point on in order to be saved; nobody would
make it.

Certain people are honest some of the time, and certain are even honest
most of the time, but nobody is 100% honest with their friends, relatives,
and associates all the time. There are times when we dare not reveal what
we're really thinking.

Below is a list of behaviors associated with dishonesty.

Lies
Fibs
Deception
Side-stepping
Denial
guile
Dissembling
Half truths
Slander
Pretense
Feigning innocence
Falsifying information
Putting up a front
Rationalizing
Embellishing
Hyperbole
Double speak
Insincerity
Withholding pertinent facts
Sophistry
Cover-ups
Deliberately vague statements
impersonation, and
spinning, etc.

I dare say it is humanly impossible to get through the week without
practicing at least one of those aspects of dishonesty.

====================================

 

[atwhatcost]

I have a problem with this whole thread. There was a time where I could boast, "I was a liar, but God stopped me when I was saved."

One problem. I'm still a sinner. I'm also a gossip and that one isn't as easy to drop.

This seems like a gossiper's paradise -- a place to point blame at all others without looking at myself. I can't. I am a gossip like an addiction. If I go back into it, getting out again is twice as hard and twice as unlikely.

 

[thecreationtutor]

I have a problem with this whole thread. There was a time where I could boast, "I was a liar, but God stopped me when I was saved."

One problem. I'm still a sinner. I'm also a gossip and that one isn't as easy to drop.

This seems like a gossiper's paradise -- a place to point blame at all others without looking at myself. I can't. I am a gossip like an addiction. If I go back into it, getting out again is twice as hard and twice as unlikely.

I have no clue what your talking about

It is an inward look, i hope, or at least my attempt = hence the case in point "sin police" worrying about others, if a reason I give strikes a nerve with someone - God hopefully will deal with their heart on the issue

Most people view sin as fun in a way where they are mad because they have to deny themselves it -- because they don't' really see sin as how God sees it - contrary to human flourishing

which I am prone to lust, and I can enslave myself to it if I am not careful

 

[oldthennew]

atwhatcost,

your blunt honesty is refreshing, a scale for all readers, to say the least.

our addictive 'bad-habits' that we must over-come can take years of
intense work, but if we're tenacious and honest we will win our battles when we
couple our efforts with our Saviour's Holy, loving, help -

gossip wasn't as hard for me as expecting something from someone,
wondering if they were going to share or include me..

one of my biggest worries, especially in the beginning of my conversion was,
was I 'feigning'? thoughts of this would tear me to pieces for many, many miles.
I would constantly ask Jesus if I was being honest in my words, actions, thoughts,
and were my motives honest and forth-right?
my old battles will always be a part of me, keeping me on His straight and narrow path,
but the years of intense stumbling and falling have at last given way
to a steady-even-comfortable path where hope and trust and perseverance
in my Saviour has given me the strength to over-come old, negative, worldly,
ingrained habits - the peace this has brought is beyond any earthly reward.
the first half of my battle is over, the second is, knowing that I am still a work in progress
but I have His confidence, a reaping with joy, and a constant looking forward to Eternal Life
with my most blessed Creator.

 

[atwhatcost]

Let me simply prove that's not true. It's an outward look at others, not inward.

I have no clue what your talking about

It is an inward look, i hope, or at least my attempt = hence the case in point "sin police" worrying about others, if a reason I give strikes a nerve with someone - God hopefully will deal with their heart on the issue

Most people view sin as fun in a way where they are mad because they have to deny themselves it -- because they don't' really see sin as how God sees it - contrary to human flourishing

which I am prone to lust, and I can enslave myself to it if I am not careful

and

How do I begin?

Some people who say "if you don't repent of a sin, and you die, you'll go to hell - referencing a believer.

Some people try to play the role of the Holy Spirit and try to convince others(there victim a beleiver) of the sin they see - being right in their own eyes

Some people want to be the "licence living" police, but applying their legalism to others.

Do you think they actually Just love their sin in the first place, and judge others because they think they are getting enjoyment from their sin, that they wish they could have?

There attitude - All you other guys get to enjoy your sin and then God's going to accept you... I have to avoid my sin, that I secretly love, so in Pharisee manner I will harp on you with the Bible in a way that you will see that I am correct, therefore making you miserable because you can be like me - therefore justifying myself and my love for sin



Romans 8:28-31English Standard Version (ESV)

28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good,[a] for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
God's Everlasting Love

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be[b]against us?

On our best day we deserve hell
On our worst day we deserve hell

God's hope is not that we someday will not sin
God doesn't love a future version of a more obedient you
God has paid for your sins, past, present, and future in Jesus Christ

oh but you can't teach that, because people will do whatever they want - the sin policeman says(secretly loves his sin)

-if they do that - the love of God does not abide in them - their not saved, hello...
-But to the believer when you remind them of this - they draw closer to God because God is for them, and they Glory in Jesus Christ


Not everyone is saved or elect that claim Jesus Christ, duh... Have you not understood this, why then become a sin policeman? Get grounded in good theology not the bad

Your words all pointing to others are underlined. Third person plural - not first person singular or even first person plural. What do you think is inward? This isn't it. This is exactly what you blame others for doing. I'm suggesting it's time for you to let God deal with your heart. Once you start noticing it's what we all do, there's a lot less finger pointing.

 

[atwhatcost]

atwhatcost,

your blunt honesty is refreshing, a scale for all readers, to say the least.

our addictive 'bad-habits' that we must over-come can take years of
intense work, but if we're tenacious and honest we will win our battles when we
couple our efforts with our Saviour's Holy, loving, help -

gossip wasn't as hard for me as expecting something from someone,
wondering if they were going to share or include me..

one of my biggest worries, especially in the beginning of my conversion was,
was I 'feigning'? thoughts of this would tear me to pieces for many, many miles.
I would constantly ask Jesus if I was being honest in my words, actions, thoughts,
and were my motives honest and forth-right?
my old battles will always be a part of me, keeping me on His straight and narrow path,
but the years of intense stumbling and falling have at last given way
to a steady-even-comfortable path where hope and trust and perseverance
in my Saviour has given me the strength to over-come old, negative, worldly,
ingrained habits - the peace this has brought is beyond any earthly reward.
the first half of my battle is over, the second is, knowing that I am still a work in progress
but I have His confidence, a reaping with joy, and a constant looking forward to Eternal Life
with my most blessed Creator.

Amen! (Although I don't understand why he has confidence in me, since he knows me.)

 

[breno785au]

I have a problem with this whole thread. There was a time where I could boast, "I was a liar, but God stopped me when I was saved."

One problem. I'm still a sinner. I'm also a gossip and that one isn't as easy to drop.

This seems like a gossiper's paradise -- a place to point blame at all others without looking at myself. I can't. I am a gossip like an addiction. If I go back into it, getting out again is twice as hard and twice as unlikely.

And that doesn't mean your not born again, see the difference Jason?

 

[PoetMary]

There are two things at work in most humans:

1. It's painful to truly examine my own shortcomings, so I'll probably end up engaging in a certain level of denial for a period of time (maybe my entire life). However, others who have no emotional attachment to my shortcomings will notice them much more quickly than I do. These people may or may not point it out to me.

2. It's easy for me to notice the shortcomings of others because I have no particular attachment to these behaviors. Additionally, it makes me feel good to point out these shortcomings because I can prove to myself (and others) that have I have life "figured out." If people resist what I see, I can simply support my insight with scripture so now I'm perceptive and holy.

(As an aside, even the irreligious engage in these behaviors. I might be in denial about what a mess my own life is, but I can talk all day about how some athlete royally screwed it up, or how some reality star is going to end up in rehab, etc.)

Here's the solution to this loop of denial/judgement:

Empathy and Compassion

Compassion is the realization that *there but for the grace of God, go I." In other words, I have no moral leg up on anyone. Were it no for the work of Jesus on the Cross and the intervention of the Holy Spirit, I could easily be the most depraved person on the planet. Even WITH the grace of Christ and the presence of the Holy Spirit I manage to screw it up on a regular basis.

Compassion means that I don't beat someone with a doctrine stick to get them to behave, but I GRIEVE for them (and with them). It means that I offer my services to help their situation (prayer, a listening ear, money, a hot meal, a place to stay, encouragement, biblical insight, etc.)

Empathy requires that I truly listen to another AND that I connect with that feeling/experience/pain within myself. So when my married friend talks about how distant her husband has been and how lonely she feels, I don't snicker, "Huh! You feel lonely?! Try being single. He may not be a great husband, but at least you have a husband." (This is comparison, not empathy). Instead, I say, "I get it. I struggle with loneliness too. Can we pray for each other about this?"

Here's what incredible about it:

Compassion and empathy are like superpowers. The more we're judged, the greater our denial and the greater our pain in self-examination. The more we experience compassion and empathy, the quicker we are to see and change our bad behaviors. (And, I believe, the more we experience true remorse for all those things that fall short of Christ's example).

How do I begin?

Some people who say "if you don't repent of a sin, and you die, you'll go to hell - referencing a believer.

Some people try to play the role of the Holy Spirit and try to convince others(there victim a beleiver) of the sin they see - being right in their own eyes

Some people want to be the "licence living" police, but applying their legalism to others.

Do you think they actually Just love their sin in the first place, and judge others because they think they are getting enjoyment from their sin, that they wish they could have?

There attitude - All you other guys get to enjoy your sin and then God's going to accept you... I have to avoid my sin, that I secretly love, so in Pharisee manner I will harp on you with the Bible in a way that you will see that I am correct, therefore making you miserable because you can be like me - therefore justifying myself and my love for sin

 

[Delivery]

Jesus came to save sinners - Paul himself said he was the worst, and that he falls in many ways - sinless perfectionism is stupid, and dishonest

If and when we sin we have an advocate - Jesus Christ the Righteous - it's His perfect obedience, not mine - It's His perfect life - not mine

John 10 - my sheep hear my voice, and they follow me - Jesus says what - turn and follow Me - Confess our sins - Jesus forgives and says turn and follow me. Those who don't really know Christ - don't hear His voice - makes no difference if your a pew warmer or not, it makes no difference if you read the Bible all the time, or just a few times



It's not my job to be sin police with others, but myself. If I see someone in sin - pray for them, if they are close in life proximity - pray that God would give you a chance and words to admonish or rebuke the person - and that the Holy Spirit will change that.

Passivity is just telling people that - you better make sure you don't sin again

Nobody is in sin who believes in Jesus. Everybody is in sin who doesn't believe in Jesus.

 

[Delivery]

The Scriptures say, have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather... reprove them.

How can one reprove the unfruitful works of darkness if one is producing unfruitful works of darkness themselves?

In other words, if anyone wants to cure the false belief that they can sin and still be saved.... just pick up your Bible and start reading it with God's help and you will be cured of such a wrong belief in no time.

Definition of an unfruitful work of darkness: somebody who doesn't believe in Jesus.

Definition of a sinner: somebody who doesn't believe in Jesus.

The proof that a person doesn't sin is in the fact that he believes in Jesus.

The proof that a person is a sinner is the fact that he doesn't believe in Jesus.

The specific sins that each of us may or may not be guilty of has nothing to do with it.

 

[thecreationtutor]

Let me simply prove that's not true. It's an outward look at others, not inward.







and



Your words all pointing to others are underlined. Third person plural - not first person singular or even first person plural. What do you think is inward? This isn't it. This is exactly what you blame others for doing. I'm suggesting it's time for you to let God deal with your heart. Once you start noticing it's what we all do, there's a lot less finger pointing.

So someones statement can never point outward? If it falls to someone, and they take offense, It's all of a sudden my fault for not pointing at myself first or something.

Some people are sin police because they secretly love their sin, did I do this at a certain point in my walk, sure did - Does me admitting it make it somehow make this thread more right?

 

[thecreationtutor]

crap my edit

Anyway -

Are there people who love their sin, and become sin police who secretly wish they could do that sin. Yes

If that doesn't apply to you, why does the statement bother anyone? Is this something I have done, yes that's why I don't go to the beach in Florida for the most part. Some people this behavior is a lifestyle

 

[Galahad]

-
Human nature being what it is; I think it's safe to say that people who don't
love at least some of their sins are psychologically imbalanced, and headed
for a nervous breakdown: if not already. I don't think it's humanly possible
to go through life perpetually hating one's self without incurring serious mental
and/or emotional damage.

========================================

Every word therein is merely human wisdom; consequently, incorrect use of words, contradictory, and mere speculation are ITS strong points. Objectively that is.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

How do I begin?

Some people who say "if you don't repent of a sin, and you die, you'll go to hell - referencing a believer.

Some people try to play the role of the Holy Spirit and try to convince others(there victim a beleiver) of the sin they see - being right in their own eyes

Some people want to be the "licence living" police, but applying their legalism to others.

Do you think they actually Just love their sin in the first place, and judge others because they think they are getting enjoyment from their sin, that they wish they could have?

There attitude - All you other guys get to enjoy your sin and then God's going to accept you... I have to avoid my sin, that I secretly love, so in Pharisee manner I will harp on you with the Bible in a way that you will see that I am correct, therefore making you miserable because you can be like me - therefore justifying myself and my love for sin



Romans 8:28-31English Standard Version (ESV)

28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good,[a] for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
God's Everlasting Love

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be[b]against us?

On our best day we deserve hell
On our worst day we deserve hell

God's hope is not that we someday will not sin
God doesn't love a future version of a more obedient you
God has paid for your sins, past, present, and future in Jesus Christ

oh but you can't teach that, because people will do whatever they want - the sin policeman says(secretly loves his sin)

-if they do that - the love of God does not abide in them - their not saved, hello...
-But to the believer when you remind them of this - they draw closer to God because God is for them, and they Glory in Jesus Christ


Not everyone is saved or elect that claim Jesus Christ, duh... Have you not understood this, why then become a sin policeman? Get grounded in good theology not the bad

A lot of self righteous religious people (like the Charismatics and many of the Pentecostals) like to claim that if a believer dies before he is able to confess his sins, then somehow he will end up in hell.

That's because they wrongly believe that a believer can lose his salvation.

They are severely wrong.

A believer confesses his sins to stay in right fellowship with the Lord.

A believer does not confess his sins though to maintain his salvation.

A Christian cannot lose his salvation. A Christian's destination is fixed. He is going to Heaven when he dies. Or when the Rapture happens.