without holiness, no man shall see the Lord - Jesus vs my own holiness

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Lexlee

Guest
#1
#1
I am confused about "without holiness, no man shall see the Lord".

Is this referring to Jesus, in whose name and holiness we come to the Lord? Or is this about our personal holiness.

I am getting mixed messages about personal holiness. If I need personal holiness to see the Lord then we are not saved by grace but only saved by the extent to which we were able to devote/sanctify ourselves after coming to faith. If that is the case, then there is no security of knowing if you crossed the line to Heaven - whether you had saving faith or not.
 
TheMiracleMan

TheMiracleMan

Banned
#2
Apr 27, 2015
141
0
0
#2
Lexlee said:
I am confused about "without holiness, no man shall see the Lord".

Is this referring to Jesus, in whose name and holiness we come to the Lord? Or is this about our personal holiness.

I am getting mixed messages about personal holiness. If I need personal holiness to see the Lord then we are not saved by grace but only saved by the extent to which we were able to devote/sanctify ourselves after coming to faith. If that is the case, then there is no security of knowing if you crossed the line to Heaven - whether you had saving faith or not.
Click to expand...
Do you have personal unholiness?
 
TheMiracleMan

TheMiracleMan

Banned
#3
Apr 27, 2015
141
0
0
#3
Why don't you go ask Jesus about what He thinks of you being unholy.

Then you will not be in doubt.

And I don't think there is such a thing as unholy grace.
 
breno785au

breno785au

Senior Member
#4
Jul 23, 2013
6,002
765
113
39
Australia
#4
Lexlee said:
I am confused about "without holiness, no man shall see the Lord".

Is this referring to Jesus, in whose name and holiness we come to the Lord? Or is this about our personal holiness.

I am getting mixed messages about personal holiness. If I need personal holiness to see the Lord then we are not saved by grace but only saved by the extent to which we were able to devote/sanctify ourselves after coming to faith. If that is the case, then there is no security of knowing if you crossed the line to Heaven - whether you had saving faith or not.
Click to expand...
Jesus makes us holy before God. Sorry its hard to post scriptures when I'm on my phone.
 
L

Lexlee

Guest
#6
#6
What confused me was this quote that said:

Any wilful and habitual sin will make you be “left behind” on the last day - Jesus saves us for us to conquer sin not remain in it.

This seems so contrary to what I have been taught.


 
C

clarkthompson

Senior Member
#7
Jul 8, 2012
624
7
18
#7
Lexlee said:
I am confused about "without holiness, no man shall see the Lord".

Is this referring to Jesus, in whose name and holiness we come to the Lord? Or is this about our personal holiness.

I am getting mixed messages about personal holiness. If I need personal holiness to see the Lord then we are not saved by grace but only saved by the extent to which we were able to devote/sanctify ourselves after coming to faith. If that is the case, then there is no security of knowing if you crossed the line to Heaven - whether you had saving faith or not.
Click to expand...
The only chance we have for getting holiness is by Jesus' blood covering our unholiness.
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#8
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
#8
Lexlee said:
I am confused about "without holiness, no man shall see the Lord".

Is this referring to Jesus, in whose name and holiness we come to the Lord? Or is this about our personal holiness.

I am getting mixed messages about personal holiness. If I need personal holiness to see the Lord then we are not saved by grace but only saved by the extent to which we were able to devote/sanctify ourselves after coming to faith. If that is the case, then there is no security of knowing if you crossed the line to Heaven - whether you had saving faith or not.
Click to expand...
In 1 Corinthians 15:10, Paul talks about the grace of God that worked within Him. Grace is not just in Justification but Grace is also involved in Sanctification, too. These are works does in you. Yes, we have to yield to the Lord. But it is ultimately the Lord doing the work. That is why it is never our own righteousness or work. Read Ezekiel 36:26-27. In that passage it says... God will give you a new heart and a new spirit (i.e. to be born again) and God will put His Spirit in you to walk in His statutes (laws).
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#9
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
#9
Most also do not bother to read the context of passages. They prefer to see something in a text to defend their sin or the idea that they will always be a slave to sin (Which basically means they still want to sin --- Even though they may not be aware of it or admit to that fact).

Anyways, I would encourage you to read the surrounding verses. If you pray to God for the understanding and just read the entire chapter, it then becomes very clear. Don't let man teach you otherwise. Trust in the Lord and make his paths straight. For would God want you to live holy or would he want you to live in sin? The question is almost ridiculous to even ask.
 
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Jeff_56

Banned
#10
Dec 26, 2014
3,757
19
0
#10
Lexlee said:
What confused me was this quote that said:
Any wilful and habitual sin will make you be “left behind” on the last day - Jesus saves us for us to conquer sin not remain in it.
This seems so contrary to what I have been taught.
Click to expand...
that is observant. and true. when you test with scripture and prayer what you have been taught it may all fall apart.
this is true in most churches on earth. (and a lot of posts ,btw).
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#11
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#11
Lexlee said:
What confused me was this quote that said:
Any wilful and habitual sin will make you be “left behind” on the last day - Jesus saves us for us to conquer sin not remain in it.
This seems so contrary to what I have been taught.
Click to expand...
You are right, it is contrary to christian teaching. What you have to begin to understand is sin is like an illness, it makes you a slave to continually repeating the same mistakes without realising why.

Gods declaration through Jesus, is I am the answer. "Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light." Matt 11:28-30

Jesus pointed to the heart being the source of our problems, our mistakes. It is there sin takes root, works its way through our lives, in the darkness sows death and destruction so we know not why we are doing things, we just know it is wrong.

Decipleship is about transformation, changing the way you think, how your emotional memory works, being rebuilt into a child of God. Some things are deeply rooted in your past, hurts, unmet needs, bad habits. The measure in the direction of travel, not how far you are along the road. The redeeming light is the light of faith, that imputes holiness and forgiveness on a fallen failed life.

So if you die without faith, in rebellion after abandoning the Lord, then yes you have lost all hope. But for those still walking, still struggling the Lords grace still abides on them. The important issue is being honest and working with who you are, and asking Jesus to help. It is hard sometimes, because darkness can take us, and we do not know fully why or the reason for our mistake, but we are still there. But that awareness is the promise of the Holy Spirit still at work, still working through the situation.
 
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