What is truth and who is of it?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
166
63
#1
Joh 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
Joh 18:38 Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Joh 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
1Jn 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
1Jn 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
1Jn 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

It is written, "my sheep hear my voice", so if God's word is truth or that which is written in the bible, and we know it is for it is written in plain English, then why are most of the promises of God's word rejected as truth, ignored, and/or explaining it away by adding the will of God to verses that talks only about God giving us what we want or what our will is?
For example,
Mat 17:19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?
Mat 17:20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
Mat 17:21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.

Mat 21:21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.
Mat 21:22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.

Verily means that what is being said is the truth.
Now I understand many of the things written in the bible have hidden meanings through metaphors, allegories, symbols, types, and the like, but some things are too plainly written to be passed off as any of the above mentioned.
So why is it not received as truth, and why is it so offensive to the so called church or believers to believe what is written, as it is written, or in many cases, simply explained away by saying, 'if it be the will of God or God's will'? If the believer is OF God and not of the devil, then why are they not hearing or receiving what is written and why are people like myself considered a type of cult and told that we teach doctrines of the devil when we tell other so called believers that God meant what He said exactly as it is written?
So what is truth if what is written is only half a truth or "not the whole council of God"?
And if the church be so divided on what the truth is on many of the important doctrines of the new covenant, such as healing, then who is OF God and who is not?
 
D

DesiredHaven

Guest
#2
Heres "of the truth" also even as it speaks of "walking" in the truth

1 John 3:18 My little children,
let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

1 John 3:19
And hereby we know that we are of the truth,
and shall assure our hearts before him.

If this could also be helpful
 
Jan 6, 2014
991
27
0
#3
"...the Word became flesh and abided with us, and we beheld his glory. ... The Law was given through Moses. Grace and TRUTH came through Jesus Christ."

Jesus Christ is the truth.

Christ be with you always.
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
166
63
#4
Heres "of the truth" also even as it speaks of "walking" in the truth

1 John 3:18 My little children,
let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

1 John 3:19
And hereby we know that we are of the truth,
and shall assure our hearts before him.

If this could also be helpful
If we accept some truths of God's word and reject others, are we still of the truth or not? If we change the meaning of the word of God to fit our doctrines or our church's doctrines.
Since we are born again by the word of God or the truth, who happens to be Jesus, can we be of God if we reject some truths?
Just something I question. I don't know what the answer is myself, but I do wonder, which leads me to question many peoples salvation.
1Jn 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
Those that are of God hear the truth, those who are not, cannot hear nor receive the truths of God's word.
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
166
63
#5
"...the Word became flesh and abided with us, and we beheld his glory. ... The Law was given through Moses. Grace and TRUTH came through Jesus Christ."

Jesus Christ is the truth.

Christ be with you always.
What does that mean, "Jesus Christ is the truth".
What truth or word are you talking about?
How is Jesus the truth?
 
Jan 6, 2014
991
27
0
#6
If we accept some truths of God's word and reject others, are we still of the truth or not? If we change the meaning of the word of God to fit our doctrines or our church's doctrines.
Since we are born again by the word of God or the truth, who happens to be Jesus, can we be of God if we reject some truths?
Just something I question. I don't know what the answer is myself, but I do wonder, which leads me to question many peoples salvation.
1Jn 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
Those that are of God hear the truth, those who are not, cannot hear nor receive the truths of God's word.
Jesus Christ is the word of God. John 1:1

If anything contradicts the revelation of Jesus Christ then it is not of God (Yahweh). This is where many stumble because they try to reconcile OT to the revelation of Christ.

I have much to say about this but few are willing to listen, Christ be with you always.
 
Jul 25, 2013
1,329
19
0
#7
Interesting question but if i had the gift of heeling that's what id be doing, not waisting time on a bible discussion forum.
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,027
1,022
113
New Zealand
#8
Truth- something that is real, true 'in and of itself'

Whether or not someone believes in it or not does not make it exist or not.

Objective truth :)

Jesus is the truth because He represents everything that it is. Absolute morals, etc..
All thing were created through Him.. and those things are real truth..
Jesus is the one and only Way.
Jesus IS God.. and God is truth.

The mystic side of things:

Someone sees a very busy road.. and they believe they can cross the road in 'their minds'.. they imagine themselves passing safely-- visualise everything missing.. think they are actually across the road already..

Then they actually practically TRY crossing the road.

What happens?

WHAM!

Hit by the truth! :)

Mystical/subjective thinking about truth maybe philosophically interesting but it is not live-able.
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
166
63
#9
Truth- something that is real, true 'in and of itself'

Whether or not someone believes in it or not does not make it exist or not.

Objective truth :)

Jesus is the truth because He represents everything that it is. Absolute morals, etc..
All thing were created through Him.. and those things are real truth..
Jesus is the one and only Way.
Jesus IS God.. and God is truth.

The mystic side of things:

Someone sees a very busy road.. and they believe they can cross the road in 'their minds'.. they imagine themselves passing safely-- visualise everything missing.. think they are actually across the road already..

Then they actually practically TRY crossing the road.

What happens?

WHAM!

Hit by the truth! :)

Mystical/subjective thinking about truth maybe philosophically interesting but it is not live-able.
That is what the carnally minded would think and say, but what is written?
Perhaps proof that merely believing, thinking, or imagining/visualizing something doesn't change the realities of our present situations or circumstances.
But, neither is faith simply believing something into what we call reality.
God's word creates livable realities that are subject to His truths.
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
166
63
#10
Interesting question but if i had the gift of heeling that's what id be doing, not waisting time on a bible discussion forum.
It's not that simple. Even Jesus couldn't get people healed who couldn't believe for it.
Healing is done by the word of God. If you have the word abiding in you, then you can have the healing as well. No word, no healing, for God watches over His word and hastens to perform it. The carnally minded cannot receive healing because they don't have the word in them.
Without receiving the word of God, you could not be saved, for you are born again by the word of God. The same applies to all things from God. This is how Jesus, who is the word of God, glorifies the Father.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
#11
Joh 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
Joh 18:38 Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Joh 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
1Jn 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
1Jn 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
1Jn 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

It is written, "my sheep hear my voice", so if God's word is truth or that which is written in the bible, and we know it is for it is written in plain English, then why are most of the promises of God's word rejected as truth, ignored, and/or explaining it away by adding the will of God to verses that talks only about God giving us what we want or what our will is?
For example,
Mat 17:19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?
Mat 17:20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
Mat 17:21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.

Mat 21:21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.
Mat 21:22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.

Verily means that what is being said is the truth.
Now I understand many of the things written in the bible have hidden meanings through metaphors, allegories, symbols, types, and the like, but some things are too plainly written to be passed off as any of the above mentioned.
So why is it not received as truth, and why is it so offensive to the so called church or believers to believe what is written, as it is written, or in many cases, simply explained away by saying, 'if it be the will of God or God's will'? If the believer is OF God and not of the devil, then why are they not hearing or receiving what is written and why are people like myself considered a type of cult and told that we teach doctrines of the devil when we tell other so called believers that God meant what He said exactly as it is written?
So what is truth if what is written is only half a truth or "not the whole council of God"?
And if the church be so divided on what the truth is on many of the important doctrines of the new covenant, such as healing, then who is OF God and who is not?
Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Jesus is indeed the Truth and when, in faith, we acknowledge His Lordship, and accept His sacrifice of Himself as payment for our sin; we become His. Being of Jesus is the same as belonging to Jesus because He is our Lord.
Being of Jesus is being of the Truth.
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
166
63
#12
Jesus Christ is the word of God. John 1:1

If anything contradicts the revelation of Jesus Christ then it is not of God (Yahweh). This is where many stumble because they try to reconcile OT to the revelation of Christ.

I have much to say about this but few are willing to listen, Christ be with you always.
I'm not sure I follow your reasoning. Actually, I simply don't know what you're talking about.
Jesus would be like an ocean of truths. One can take many cups or doctrines of truth out of the ocean of truth.
The bible would be like the sand on a sea shore and a verse from the bible on the doctrine of healing would be like taking a grain of sand from the shore.
If we make the word of God say something it does not, then we do not have the truth to that doctrine. That is why I take it as it is written. If you want the truth of God and it's written there in front of you, why would you try to change it? To make it more true?
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
166
63
#13
Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Jesus is indeed the Truth and when, in faith, we acknowledge His Lordship, and accept His sacrifice of Himself as payment for our sin; we become His. Being of Jesus is the same as belonging to Jesus because He is our Lord.
Being of Jesus is being of the Truth.
We can still reject truth if we so chose.
Our sins also make us sick, even to death.
Jesus bore that curse on the cross for us as well.
 

vic1980

Senior Member
Apr 25, 2013
1,653
199
63
44
#14
Continue in Him

1 John 2:28-29
Now, little children, abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not shrink away from Him in shame at His coming. If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone also who practices righteousness is born of Him.

Shalom
 
D

DesiredHaven

Guest
#15
If we accept some truths of God's word and reject others, are we still of the truth or not? If we change the meaning of the word of God to fit our doctrines or our church's doctrines.
Since we are born again by the word of God or the truth, who happens to be Jesus, can we be of God if we reject some truths?
Just something I question. I don't know what the answer is myself, but I do wonder, which leads me to question many peoples salvation.
1Jn 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
Those that are of God hear the truth, those who are not, cannot hear nor receive the truths of God's word.
Your welcome
 
Jul 27, 2011
1,622
89
0
#16
Exodus 34:6, And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, the LORD, the LORD GOD, merciful and gracious, long suffering, and abundant in goodness and truth. Deuteronomy 32:4, He is the rock, his work is perfect; for all His ways are judgement; a God of truth and not iniquity, just and right is He. Psalm 25:5, lead me in Thy truth, and teach me: for though are the God of my salvation; on Thee do i wait all the day. Mathew 15:27, and she said , Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table. 3John 1:4, I have no greater joy than to hear my children walk in truth. 3John 1:8, we therefor ought to receive such, that we might be fellowhelpers to the truth.
 
O

oldthennew

Guest
#17
JOHN 1:3.
All things were made by Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made.'

OT-NT (the Law & the Prophets)....

like it is written,
'My Words are Spirit and they are Life' and (we know that the Law is Spiritual) and (the Word of God is Eternal) -
as it is written,
'Your Word is Truth and Your Word is settled in heaven forever'.
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
166
63
#19
So how do we determine who or what denomination has the truth or truths of God and are of God and who doesn't?
If one looks around, one would see that we so called Christians are very diverse in our beliefs, and most of it has come from the same book.
How is that?
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,027
1,022
113
New Zealand
#20
So how do we determine who or what denomination has the truth or truths of God and are of God and who doesn't?
If one looks around, one would see that we so called Christians are very diverse in our beliefs, and most of it has come from the same book.
How is that?
C O N T E X T

It's key--

Verse upon verse, line upon line, precept upon precept reveals the truth.

Why so many differences? Because a lot of christians take things out of context.


For example- the oft quoted saying 'where two or three are gathered, there I am in the midst of them'

This gets quoted and used in all sorts of situations.. just where christians gather.. any place any time.. but the actual quote in Matthew 18:20 is in the context of -

Resolving disputes in a local church family!

The whole preceding verses are about the process of how you go about dealing with a sinning brother. So therefore the statement itself is about that also!

Of course.. the application of the statement can also apply to other situations.. but it is still within a certain setting- a local church.

Another example

'He who endures to the end will be saved'-- used by many to say that salvation is either earned or you don't have it till you die.

Context of this? About enduring trials and persecution.. 'saved' as in delivered.. rescued.. etc..

NOT about being saved eternally.

It goes on and on.