In the old testament it talks about an ephrod worn by the high priest.i guess it's a breast plate with 12 gemstones that represents the twelve tribes of Israel. Is their anything significant about each gemstone? I had a dream Jesus was holding a light blue topaz gem over his head at me....I don't know what that means.
Gems in the bible
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D
Jesus himself is caled a precious stone, but to look upon (as seated) he is compared to the jasper and sardine stone
Mark 16:19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them,
he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
Rev 4:3 He that sat "was to look upon"
like a jasper and a sardine stone.
I have some various connections or observations but I dont think are conclusive of too much. Sorta laboursome to go through but they can be fun thinking bout things as to what they connect to variously. I just play but cant be much help.
Mark 16:19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them,
he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
Rev 4:3 He that sat "was to look upon"
like a jasper and a sardine stone.
I have some various connections or observations but I dont think are conclusive of too much. Sorta laboursome to go through but they can be fun thinking bout things as to what they connect to variously. I just play but cant be much help.
D
I just compare them here and there, and add to them from time to time until I can get a foot on where to go with them or to what other thing they can show.
He that sat is to look upon as the Jasper (and Sardine) but that Jasper stone is also the first foundation and the building of the wall (of the city) is shown to be of Jasper as well. Her light (in Rev 21:11) mirrors his clearness (in its description) and is compared again to the light of a precious stone (named there again as the Jasper) and Peter calls Christ (who is the light of the world) a precious stone. And a gift elsewhere (as we know Christ is the gift of God) is also as a precious stone to him that hath it(and thats what she has in Rev 21:11) called the glory of God. I try to just observe the order of the stones move about (from old to new) note which is missing. Thats why its hard to really study with someone in them, but you can show your own comparisons that might help strike something in someone else to pick up and run with in the way they would go.
If you run a little off the Jasper and work in the Sapphire (in part) this is what I have compared a little
Rev 21:19 The first foundation was jasper
1Cr 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid,
which is Jesus Christ.
Rev 4:3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper ....
Ze 1:26... and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness
as the appearance of a man above upon it.
Whereas here likewise notice the comparison of her light (it mirrors his) even the jasper again
Rev 21:11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious,
even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
Second shows the body of heaven in "his clearness"
Ex 24:10 And they saw the God of Israel:
and there was under his feet as it were
a paved work of a sapphire stone,and as it werethe body of heaven in his clearness.
See his clearness in the jasper a jasper stone, clear as crystal; (which he is to look upon also)
Rev 21:18 And the building of the wall (( of it)) was of jasper:
and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.
Then here (around her a wall of fire and in her midst the glory= Him)
Zech 2:5 For I, saith the LORD, will be unto her a wall of fire round about,
and will be the glory in the midst of her.
For our God is a cnsuming fire, the appearance of fire...
Ezek 1:27.... I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about.
Ezek 1:28 This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD.
And when I saw it, I fell upon my face,
and I heard a voice of one that spake.
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person,
and upholding all things by the word of his power,
when he had by himself purged our sins,
sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Rev 4:3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper ....
I have these written up and out so many ways, but the colors and fonts different, and that is a pain in the rear I know
He that sat is to look upon as the Jasper (and Sardine) but that Jasper stone is also the first foundation and the building of the wall (of the city) is shown to be of Jasper as well. Her light (in Rev 21:11) mirrors his clearness (in its description) and is compared again to the light of a precious stone (named there again as the Jasper) and Peter calls Christ (who is the light of the world) a precious stone. And a gift elsewhere (as we know Christ is the gift of God) is also as a precious stone to him that hath it(and thats what she has in Rev 21:11) called the glory of God. I try to just observe the order of the stones move about (from old to new) note which is missing. Thats why its hard to really study with someone in them, but you can show your own comparisons that might help strike something in someone else to pick up and run with in the way they would go.
If you run a little off the Jasper and work in the Sapphire (in part) this is what I have compared a little
Rev 21:19 The first foundation was jasper
1Cr 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid,
which is Jesus Christ.
Rev 4:3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper ....
Ze 1:26... and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness
as the appearance of a man above upon it.
Whereas here likewise notice the comparison of her light (it mirrors his) even the jasper again
Rev 21:11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious,
even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
Second shows the body of heaven in "his clearness"
Ex 24:10 And they saw the God of Israel:
and there was under his feet as it were
a paved work of a sapphire stone,and as it werethe body of heaven in his clearness.
See his clearness in the jasper a jasper stone, clear as crystal; (which he is to look upon also)
Rev 21:18 And the building of the wall (( of it)) was of jasper:
and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.
Then here (around her a wall of fire and in her midst the glory= Him)
Zech 2:5 For I, saith the LORD, will be unto her a wall of fire round about,
and will be the glory in the midst of her.
For our God is a cnsuming fire, the appearance of fire...
Ezek 1:27.... I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about.
Ezek 1:28 This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD.
And when I saw it, I fell upon my face,
and I heard a voice of one that spake.
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person,
and upholding all things by the word of his power,
when he had by himself purged our sins,
sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Rev 4:3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper ....
I have these written up and out so many ways, but the colors and fonts different, and that is a pain in the rear I know
D
I know this is not of the same order, these things in the OT but sometimes elements can seen, and Im never really certain especially when in the stage of contemplating whether I should discard something or not because I recall discarding something before it was clear as to whether I should or not and I had to double back to it and it ended up blessing me, so I hold on to so many things that are half baked (so to speak). I keep trying to fully bake this one, its not happening but enough is there (in this and other studies) that I keep it. I thought, what of this Urim and Thummim? And the breastplate of judgment, if maybe (somehow) all judgment being given to the Son could show anything in it? Its an iffy thing with me. Like could there be any sound comparable elements in the breastplate of judgment even though the called orders are changed? Meh...And because you can still find these things throughout in other things so I dont discard the idea in patterns (on earth) when looking at patterns (in heaven) if there be one. I thought there could be a couple in there of the breastplate of Judgment,
Theres the putting IN (the breastplate) these two
Exodus 28:30 And thou shalt put IN the breastplate of judgment
the Urim (light/revelation) and the Thummim (perfection).
And heres the putting ON (the breastplate) as shown in Christ having these two likewise
1Thes 5:8... putting ON the breastplate of faith and love
Which things are followed up pretty consistently with the two elsewhere (as they work together)
Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing,
nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
1John 2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light,
and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
1Titus 1:14 And the grace of our Lord
was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
Phil 1:5 Hearing of thy love and faith,
which thou hast toward the Lord Jesus, and toward all saints;
2Titus 1:13 Hold fast the form of sound words,
which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
Its just the defintions of the two that I find fascinating
Exodus 28:30 And thou shalt put IN the breastplate of judgment
the Urim (light/revelation) and the Thummim (perfection).
Even as we are to (walk in) the light (as He is in the light) and we ourselves are perfected (in love)
even as (charity) is the bond of perfectedness
Can I compare between the two?
I dont know, I do really strange comparisons and would not bring quite a few of them forward but this one I will. Only because its just a comparing thing, its not like a doctrine thing, although to come out in the end looking at faith and love in Christ is not such a bad thing even if the comparison you are using be faulty.
Its like saying, oopsy I erred upon faith and love, thats why I dont mind sharing this one.
Theres the putting IN (the breastplate) these two
Exodus 28:30 And thou shalt put IN the breastplate of judgment
the Urim (light/revelation) and the Thummim (perfection).
And heres the putting ON (the breastplate) as shown in Christ having these two likewise
1Thes 5:8... putting ON the breastplate of faith and love
Which things are followed up pretty consistently with the two elsewhere (as they work together)
Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing,
nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
1John 2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light,
and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
1Titus 1:14 And the grace of our Lord
was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
Phil 1:5 Hearing of thy love and faith,
which thou hast toward the Lord Jesus, and toward all saints;
2Titus 1:13 Hold fast the form of sound words,
which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
Its just the defintions of the two that I find fascinating
Exodus 28:30 And thou shalt put IN the breastplate of judgment
the Urim (light/revelation) and the Thummim (perfection).
Even as we are to (walk in) the light (as He is in the light) and we ourselves are perfected (in love)
even as (charity) is the bond of perfectedness
Can I compare between the two?
I dont know, I do really strange comparisons and would not bring quite a few of them forward but this one I will. Only because its just a comparing thing, its not like a doctrine thing, although to come out in the end looking at faith and love in Christ is not such a bad thing even if the comparison you are using be faulty.
Its like saying, oopsy I erred upon faith and love, thats why I dont mind sharing this one.
D
I dont know if this would fit in some way too, given our Lord says
I am the first and the last
And how we see in Ezekiel
Ezek 28:17 The sardius stone"is the first (shown in the breastplate) AND the jasper stone is the last
And then we see him with the first and last stones
Rev 4:3 He that sat """was to look upon"""
like a jasper AND a sardine stone (sardius in OT)
The sardine" (and "sardius") seem to be "defined as the same".
Sardine Stone 1) a sardius, a precious stone of which there are two types, the former is called "a carnelian" (because flesh coloured and the latter "a sard"
That would be a little cool if that worked
I am the first and the last
And how we see in Ezekiel
Ezek 28:17 The sardius stone"is the first (shown in the breastplate) AND the jasper stone is the last
And then we see him with the first and last stones
Rev 4:3 He that sat """was to look upon"""
like a jasper AND a sardine stone (sardius in OT)
The sardine" (and "sardius") seem to be "defined as the same".
Sardine Stone 1) a sardius, a precious stone of which there are two types, the former is called "a carnelian" (because flesh coloured and the latter "a sard"
That would be a little cool if that worked
A
"It needs to be said at the outset that it is difficult to know with certainty to which specific jewels the ancient words refer (for a discussion and a chart of the various English words used to translate the references to jewels (see Jewels and Precious Stones in The Illustrated Bible Dictionary, Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press, 1980, pages 781–89).
Misguided attempts have been made to associate the qualities of a specific gem to a corresponding tribe of ancient Israel. Others, apparently with the idea of birthstones in mind, have attempted to associate the twelve precious stones in the ephod and in the foundations of New Jerusalem with the twelve signs of the zodiac. Though such attempts are futile, they are, fortunately, unnecessary for understanding the imagery of jewels. The individual jewels have no specific symbolism. Collectively they are the beautiful prize of wealth and power. Their presence in biblical imagery suggests that God’s wealth and power are unmatched."
Ryken, L., Wilhoit, J., Longman, T., Duriez, C., Penney, D., & Reid, D. G. (2000). Dictionary of biblical imagery (electronic ed.) (451). Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press.
"The most important of Aaron’s priestly garments is the ephod, which was either a linen robe covering the upper body or a frontal piece attached to the shoulders and sashed at the waist. The use of all five colored yarns indicates its importance, as does the use of gold filigree and engraved stones.
Placing the names of six tribes on each stone provided a continual reminder to all that he was representing the nation before God. The fact that the ephod is related to idols and false worship in later passages (Judg 17:5 and 8:24–27) suggests that it was a garment borrowed from Mesopotamian society—perhaps worn by priests or used to clothe idols. The breastpiece (28:15), the Urim and Thummim (28:30), and the ephod are used in divination (1 Sam 23:9–11). Thus the high priest is clothed in garments that aid in the discernment of God’s will."
Matthews, V. H., Chavalas, M. W., & Walton, J. H. (2000). The IVP Bible background commentary: Old Testament (electronic ed.) (Ex 28:14–30). Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press.
Misguided attempts have been made to associate the qualities of a specific gem to a corresponding tribe of ancient Israel. Others, apparently with the idea of birthstones in mind, have attempted to associate the twelve precious stones in the ephod and in the foundations of New Jerusalem with the twelve signs of the zodiac. Though such attempts are futile, they are, fortunately, unnecessary for understanding the imagery of jewels. The individual jewels have no specific symbolism. Collectively they are the beautiful prize of wealth and power. Their presence in biblical imagery suggests that God’s wealth and power are unmatched."
Ryken, L., Wilhoit, J., Longman, T., Duriez, C., Penney, D., & Reid, D. G. (2000). Dictionary of biblical imagery (electronic ed.) (451). Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press.
"The most important of Aaron’s priestly garments is the ephod, which was either a linen robe covering the upper body or a frontal piece attached to the shoulders and sashed at the waist. The use of all five colored yarns indicates its importance, as does the use of gold filigree and engraved stones.
Placing the names of six tribes on each stone provided a continual reminder to all that he was representing the nation before God. The fact that the ephod is related to idols and false worship in later passages (Judg 17:5 and 8:24–27) suggests that it was a garment borrowed from Mesopotamian society—perhaps worn by priests or used to clothe idols. The breastpiece (28:15), the Urim and Thummim (28:30), and the ephod are used in divination (1 Sam 23:9–11). Thus the high priest is clothed in garments that aid in the discernment of God’s will."
Matthews, V. H., Chavalas, M. W., & Walton, J. H. (2000). The IVP Bible background commentary: Old Testament (electronic ed.) (Ex 28:14–30). Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press.
No,your absolutely right! Not every dream is supernatural...and I know that. However I know when God's speaks to me...I'm learning to discern what's from God and what isn't...sometimes you just KNOW when God is speaking to you. You know,I've noticed it's the Christians who don't have supernatural experiences with God that tend to hate on other Christians do...sad...like God don't speak anymore...
I remembered when I first noticed the first being mentioned last, and the last being mentioned first I thought of this verse....
Luke 13:30
And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.
And good job putting those verses together above. And also keep in mind, most precious stones don't start out all nice and polished, but rather they are rough at first. It takes some time and effort to make the rough ways smooth.
Luke 13:30
And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.
And good job putting those verses together above. And also keep in mind, most precious stones don't start out all nice and polished, but rather they are rough at first. It takes some time and effort to make the rough ways smooth.
http://christianchat.com/christian-news-forum/103177-proof-god-12-stones-revelation.htmlHere is the post I was talking about and the name of the link bolded here in CC
and the link
http://christianchat.com/christian-news-forum/103177-proof-god-12-stones-revelation.html
Proof for God: The 12 Stones of Revelation
and the link
http://christianchat.com/christian-news-forum/103177-proof-god-12-stones-revelation.html
Proof for God: The 12 Stones of Revelation
Here are some better pictures with additional data:
There are about 28 or so precious and semi-precious stones in the world.
Of these 28, exactly the 12 (!) that Heavenly Jerusalem is built with and that represent the 12 tribes are anisotropic and reflect all the colors of the rainbow beautifully when pure light passes through them...
Interestingly, neither diamond, rubies or garnets are mentioned. Turns out, it’s because they are isotropic, when Pure light passes trough them, there is no beauty at all.
So the beauty of a stone is determined by the pure light...............
1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ
There are about 28 or so precious and semi-precious stones in the world.
Of these 28, exactly the 12 (!) that Heavenly Jerusalem is built with and that represent the 12 tribes are anisotropic and reflect all the colors of the rainbow beautifully when pure light passes through them...
Interestingly, neither diamond, rubies or garnets are mentioned. Turns out, it’s because they are isotropic, when Pure light passes trough them, there is no beauty at all.
So the beauty of a stone is determined by the pure light...............
1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ
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