Could signs of worldwide revival be a deception?

[MarcR]

Two things:
1) Being deceived by Satan is not my idea of revival.
2) Mt 24:2424 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. KJV


if it were possible πλανῆσαι εἰ δθνατόν [πλανῆσαι]καὶ τοὺς ἐκλεκτούς is a
condition contrary to fact. the verb πλανῆσαι is the aorist active infinitive of the verb to deceive. it appears in the protasis; and since there is no verb in the apodosis, it is implied there as well. When the conditional particle εἰ is used with the aorist tense in both protasis and apodosis; that signals an imposibility.

 

[just-me]

You're quoting from Scripture describing the midpoint of the Tribulation. The only believers here then will not be Spirit-indwelled believers, but those who come to faith in Christ after the present-day church is removed to heaven to enjoy the Wedding Feast of the Lamb. Still, those Tribulation saints will be sealed, though not indwelled, by a sign to their foreheads that I speculate will not visible to any but other believers. Therefore, the answer to you question is an absolute and unequivocal "No!"

No, they are the words of the antichrist.

The deception of unbelief, which has always been with us.

See, I knew this is where you were going. No, the Rapture is not a "deception. It is God's promise to His church.

No, the believers of the Tribulation will refuse the mark, even knowing it will cost them their head. The unbeliever at that time masquerading as a believer will take the mark and be exposed, thereby assuring his/her destruction at Christ's return.

That is so mis-understandable without scripture to prove what you say. Remember it takes at least 2 witnesses. Without that, deception can run rampant. Quoting me scripture would help in respect to what I have quoted. God's word is not contradictory.

 

[atwhatcost]

I was thinking the only way to deceive Christians is to make it look like what we have been lead to believe it should look like. Consider what the current pope is endorsing saying Muslims and Christians serve the same god. Peace treaties with Israel have been an ongoing desire since the Carter administration beginning 40 years ago.

"For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape." 1 Thessalonians 5:3

See now? This is what I was missing. I don't keep up with all the "latest from the Vatican" stuff, to even bother thinking what the pope says means anything. I even have to quiet my face so I don't burst out laughing, when people shout, "Peace, peace, we need peace at any cost," because, well... my screen name says it all. I see that cost. It's too much and will never happen.

And Israel? I have yet to figure out what Israel is all about, since it's no longer a God-made country. God was involved in the remaking, but that's not his Israel. That's an Israel.

Most of the American media and education system is propaganda-generating, so I stopped listening to the propaganda. Judging from this thread, I've missed a lot of something in the church too. (In the post after this CrossNote thinks I get amillennialism and dispensationalism. Ha! Not a clue. I'm also lost on pre-, post-, and a- tribulation too. lol It usually doesn't interest me.)

 

[just-me]

See now? This is what I was missing. I don't keep up with all the "latest from the Vatican" stuff, to even bother thinking what the pope says means anything. I even have to quiet my face so I don't burst out laughing, when people shout, "Peace, peace, we need peace at any cost," because, well... my screen name says it all. I see that cost. It's too much and will never happen.

And Israel? I have yet to figure out what Israel is all about, since it's no longer a God-made country. God was involved in the remaking, but that's not his Israel. That's an Israel.

Most of the American media and education system is propaganda-generating, so I stopped listening to the propaganda. Judging from this thread, I've missed a lot of something in the church too. (In the post after this CrossNote thinks I get amillennialism and dispensationalism. Ha! Not a clue. I'm also lost on pre-, post-, and a- tribulation too. lol It usually doesn't interest me.)

I agree that the Israel of today is not the complete Israel. It is substantial concerning the end of this age. I think I understand you even so. All this can surely be overwhelming. It's in our face really. I'd like to bypass it also, but that's not an option.

 

[thecreationtutor]

probably important to look past american Chritsianity over the past 50 years that has produces nothing but apathetic followers and children, who don't know Jesus - that Revival would look nothing like that type of Christianity

 

[Chica]

probably important to look past american Chritsianity over the past 50 years that has produces nothing but apathetic followers and children, who don't know Jesus - that Revival would look nothing like that type of Christianity

I've read articles about men that are in the pulpit at this very moment and don't even believe. It would be within Anitchrists ability to put people in place in the churches that are actually anitchrists, and very easy to decieve their congregations since the majority of people don't even know what their bibles say.

 

[atwhatcost]

Well you are probably familiar with Amillennium view which seems to be in vogue. I am coming from more of a Dispensational view (and I don't mean Hal Lindsey or sensationalism) but a view that sees Israel and the Church as having distinct dealings by God especially with future events and it's a view that takes a more literal approach to Scriptures than Amillennials.
See books by Ryrie, Walvoord, Chafer, Pentecost etc., and then compare them with Amillennium writers or your view and of course most of all with Scripture.

1. No. not really. I don't get millennialism or dispensationalism. I've tried before, but it was something like trying to understand liberals. My mind just isn't structured to understand it. I'm as likely to get it as I am to getting the mindset of an Inuit. They may be right and they may be wrong, but it's so far removed from my life, I can't get it.

2. Which is also why I'm not reading a bunch of authors to get it. (But, yeah, I do agree Hal Lindsay was... woo-hoo.)

Which makes me realize, I've stepped into a pre/a/trib/mil/dispen. thread that's just going on and on while people are busy trying to prove their positions with each other, haven't I?

Not my thing, so I'm graciously stepping out.

 

[DesiredHaven]

1. No. not really. I don't get millennialism or dispensationalism. I've tried before, but it was something like trying to understand liberals. My mind just isn't structured to understand it. I'm as likely to get it as I am to getting the mindset of an Inuit. They may be right and they may be wrong, but it's so far removed from my life, I can't get it.

2. Which is also why I'm not reading a bunch of authors to get it. (But, yeah, I do agree Hal Lindsay was... woo-hoo.)

Which makes me realize, I've stepped into a pre/a/trib/mil/dispen. thread that's just going on and on while people are busy trying to prove their positions with each other, haven't I?

Not my thing, so I'm graciously stepping out.

That cracked me up! I laughed so hard, thanks

 

[Joshua_Generation]

You're quoting from Scripture describing the midpoint of the Tribulation. The only believers here then will not be Spirit-indwelled believers, but those who come to faith in Christ after the present-day church is removed to heaven to enjoy the Wedding Feast of the Lamb. Still, those Tribulation saints will be sealed, though not indwelled, by a sign to their foreheads that I speculate will not visible to any but other believers. Therefore, the answer to you question is an absolute and unequivocal "No!"

No, they are the words of the antichrist.

The deception of unbelief, which has always been with us.

See, I knew this is where you were going. No, the Rapture is not a "deception. It is God's promise to His church.

No, the believers of the Tribulation will refuse the mark, even knowing it will cost them their head. The unbeliever at that time masquerading as a believer will take the mark and be exposed, thereby assuring his/her destruction at Christ's return.

So I will ask what someone else did, Does Jesus come back 3x then?

This is what pre-trib doctrine seems to imply.

He came as a baby wrapped in swaddling clothes
He returns during the rapture
He returns for the Day of the Lord

This is not found in the scriptures.

 

[Joshua_Generation]

Folks, the term antichrist is not found anywhere in the book of Revelation and only found in 1 and 2 John?

Calling the beast, the antichrist is not accurate, because John already gave us the definition of an antichrist and told us that many are already in the world.

Satan and his demons know Jesus came in the flesh, which means they do not have the spirit of antichrist. The only true antichrist is one that states Jesus did not come in the flesh. John was warning us of gnostic doctrine, not devils, demons or Satan.

Satan, the Beast and the false prophet form a demonic trinity.

Satan=God
The Beast=Jesus Christ
False Prophet=The Holy Spirit

As much as it goes against Christian culture and tradition, the greatest deception Satan could put on the church is a lie, that there is some secret pre-trib rapture and then the Day of the Lord comes.

I am not stating I do not believe pre-trib, but there are many things in the Bible that do not support that view. At this rate no matter what part of the trib he returns, I am ready and will occupy until he does return.

 

[crossnote]

It's gospel that the believing Jews and gentiles are one in Christ. At least we should ant to be. That enmity has been abolished through Christ. Of course there is still enmity, but that is Satan's device, not God's

You just described the present Church since Pentecost.

Ephesians 2:12-16
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

After the rapture of the Church, the emphasis will be back on Israel .

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

That is so mis-understandable without scripture to prove what you say. Remember it takes at least 2 witnesses. Without that, deception can run rampant. Quoting me scripture would help in respect to what I have quoted. God's word is not contradictory.

Quoting Scripture to someone who does not understand that Scripture requires more time than I have now. You have quoted Scripture and asked questions that put those passages grossly out of context, which is worse than simply misunderstanding. Perhaps when I have to time, and not publicly. Such threads only inflame the fanatics.

 

[crossnote]

1. No. not really. I don't get millennialism or dispensationalism. I've tried before, but it was something like trying to understand liberals. My mind just isn't structured to understand it. I'm as likely to get it as I am to getting the mindset of an Inuit. They may be right and they may be wrong, but it's so far removed from my life, I can't get it.

2. Which is also why I'm not reading a bunch of authors to get it. (But, yeah, I do agree Hal Lindsay was... woo-hoo.)

Which makes me realize, I've stepped into a pre/a/trib/mil/dispen. thread that's just going on and on while people are busy trying to prove their positions with each other, haven't I?

Not my thing, so I'm graciously stepping out.

if you take a more literal approach to Scripture you'll natually gravitate towards a dispensational view but if you're into allegorizing especially prophecies you'll tend towards amill...by default.

 

[newlife7]

why would we be given preferential treatment over all Christians who came before us? I think the rapture is wishful thinking....especially the pre trib one.

Because the tribulation is something that will happen that is so bad nobody has ever been through such a thing in history including Christian throughout the last 2000 plus years

 

[crossnote]

So I will ask what someone else did, Does Jesus come back 3x then?

This is what pre-trib doctrine seems to imply.

He came as a baby wrapped in swaddling clothes
He returns during the rapture
He returns for the Day of the Lord

This is not found in the scriptures.

He doesn't return to earth during the rapture.

 

[crossnote]

Folks, the term antichrist is not found anywhere in the book of Revelation and only found in 1 and 2 John?

Calling the beast, the antichrist is not accurate, because John already gave us the definition of an antichrist and told us that many are already in the world.

Satan and his demons know Jesus came in the flesh, which means they do not have the spirit of antichrist. The only true antichrist is one that states Jesus did not come in the flesh. John was warning us of gnostic doctrine, not devils, demons or Satan.

Satan, the Beast and the false prophet form a demonic trinity.

Satan=God
The Beast=Jesus Christ
False Prophet=The Holy Spirit

As much as it goes against Christian culture and tradition, the greatest deception Satan could put on the church is a lie, that there is some secret pre-trib rapture and then the Day of the Lord comes.

I am not stating I do not believe pre-trib, but there are many things in the Bible that do not support that view. At this rate no matter what part of the trib he returns, I am ready and will occupy until he does return.

I think this is quibbling. Sure there are many antichrists defined as you say in first John, but common usuage tags the beast in Rev 13 as the antichrist because he is the chief opposer of Christ waging war on the saints, exalting himself as God etc. So a rose by any other name is still a rose. Call him what you want, just don't bow down.

 

[newlife7]

Because the tribulation is something that will happen that is so bad nobody has ever been through such a thing in history including Christian throughout the last 2000 plus years

I am still not through with my study of the tribulation but that is one reason a pre trib rapture would occur. However, I do believe that when we see the antichrist seated in the temple we need to start looking up because that is when Paul said we will be caught up in the air to meet the Lord.

 

[Sirk]

Because the tribulation is something that will happen that is so bad nobody has ever been through such a thing in history including Christian throughout the last 2000 plus years

Im not sure it gets much worse than the nazi camps?

 

[atwhatcost]

I agree that the Israel of today is not the complete Israel. It is substantial concerning the end of this age. I think I understand you even so. All this can surely be overwhelming. It's in our face really. I'd like to bypass it also, but that's not an option.

Why isn't it an option?

I skip the whole "the pope is coming" stuff on the news most of the time. (And, in my case, he really is coming to our city in, I think, September, so I'll have to figure out when to avoid being stuck in Center City on the days it's crowded because he did come.)

I have no control in today, once more tomorrow, so I see no particular reason to worry about the mill/trib/rapture/other stuff debate. Trying to align my will with God's will is a never-ending worth-the-time focus.

That includes loving him completely and loving others completely, so it's not inward. (Failing is inward, so I do see inward often enough.)

So, exactly what are you trying to accomplish to not have those options? What is it you can't bypass?

 

[just-me]

Why isn't it an option?

I skip the whole "the pope is coming" stuff on the news most of the time. (And, in my case, he really is coming to our city in, I think, September, so I'll have to figure out when to avoid being stuck in Center City on the days it's crowded because he did come.)

I have no control in today, once more tomorrow, so I see no particular reason to worry about the mill/trib/rapture/other stuff debate. Trying to align my will with God's will is a never-ending worth-the-time focus.

That includes loving him completely and loving others completely, so it's not inward. (Failing is inward, so I do see inward often enough.)

So, exactly what are you trying to accomplish to not have those options? What is it you can't bypass?

I think it isn't an option that we can or cannot take the time to notice the signs given. It is by the grace of God that He told us these things in His word. Without that knowledge we would not receive the warning. It's like the trumpet of warning given in Ezekiel 33:4-7
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Then whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet, and taketh not warning; if the sword come, and take him away, his blood shall be upon his own head.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]He heard the sound of the trumpet, and took not warning; his blood shall be upon him. But he that taketh warning shall deliver his soul.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]So thou, O son of man, I have set thee a watchman unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me.

God wants us to be ready, and we should all carry the spiritual trumpet of warning. It really is a loving gesture according to God's will.

"And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh." Luke 21:28