Breaking the speed limit vs "bigger" sins: Are all sins equal?

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Called4Christ

Guest
#1
We know that all sins are equal; all sin separates us from God. Do you feel that breaking the speed limit is a sin in that it does not obey local authorities? (Rend unto Caesar what is Caesar's)

Do we take it seriously enough?

Should we take it as seriously as the struggle with alcoholism or lying?


What are your thoughts on some sins being worse than others? My personal opinion is that all sins are equal but some sin has a larger social, personal, physical, and economical cost to it. Therefore, we're more likely to view the sins that affect ourselves and others as "worse," but in the end--they all separate us from God.
 
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Called4Christ

Guest
#2
Further, how should the church react to brothers and sisters who sin?
 
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
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#3
I agree that all sins are equal in separating one from God but some sins have bigger consequences than others....some sins can be more or less fixed while others cannot be and you just have to learn to live with the consequence of that sin. David and Bathsheba had to live with the consequence of their sin.
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
#4
Luke 12:42-48 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
63
#5
We know that all sins are equal; all sin separates us from God. Do you feel that breaking the speed limit is a sin in that it does not obey local authorities? (Rend unto Caesar what is Caesar's)

Do we take it seriously enough?

Should we take it as seriously as the struggle with alcoholism or lying?


What are your thoughts on some sins being worse than others? My personal opinion is that all sins are equal but some sin has a larger social, personal, physical, and economical cost to it. Therefore, we're more likely to view the sins that affect ourselves and others as "worse," but in the end--they all separate us from God.
James said that to break one law was to be guilty of all for it makes you a lawbreaker. And one sin is sufficient to separate us from God.

Even so, some sins are worse than others. To stalk around with murder in my heart and a gun in my hand is worse than being careless about the speed limit ( if I cause no danger). The first case means that I am more deeply engrained in sin with the aim of hurting others. No murderer has eternal life abiding in him. It is sin with a high hand.
 

eternallife7

Senior Member
May 19, 2015
659
6
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#6
We are all to obey civil ordinances unless the contradict scripture. Slow and low what's the rush?
 
Dec 26, 2014
3,757
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#7
Further, how should the church react to brothers and sisters who sin?
go back to God's WORD. HE spells it out.

don't trust this forum. from the looks of it, most churches people are in don't care about sin.
 
G

Galahad

Guest
#8
We know that all sins are equal; all sin separates us from God. Do you feel that breaking the speed limit is a sin in that it does not obey local authorities? (Rend unto Caesar what is Caesar's)

Do we take it seriously enough?

Should we take it as seriously as the struggle with alcoholism or lying?


What are your thoughts on some sins being worse than others? My personal opinion is that all sins are equal but some sin has a larger social, personal, physical, and economical cost to it. Therefore, we're more likely to view the sins that affect ourselves and others as "worse," but in the end--they all separate us from God.
The speed limit taken seriously as the struggle with alcoholism or lying?

No. How can you?

The only way you can not break the speed limit is by driving at the speed limit or slightly below it. Slightly? Yes, because driving at a speed much lower than the actual speed limit is dangerous to others. You can be ticketed for it. At least where I live.

The speed limit is 45. You look at your speedometer. 46! If your speedometer can read 45.1 mph, then what? You're sinning. And you want that to be taken seriously as a struggle with alcoholism and lying?

When you actually take the time to think about your question and answer it beyond the "all sin is sin" statement, you will abandon this silly notion of yours.

You can begin by defining sin. Then study from where does sin come. ETC.

Until then, I would suggest that you either buy a governor for your car and a speedometer that tracks fractions of speed.

Well, you might want to take the bus. No. That won't work either. You see, if the bus driver goes over the speed limit and you stay on the bus, you are condoning his or her behavior. That's a sin. And so you would have to tell the driver to slow down. Same applies to taxi. How about the train? No way. You'd be car hopping to get to the engineer.

Just walk.
 
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Called4Christ

Guest
#9
The speed limit is 45. You look at your speedometer. 46! If your speedometer can read 45.1 mph, then what? You're sinning. And you want that to be taken seriously as a struggle with alcoholism and lying?
Brother, I would ask you to please refrain from assuming how I feel. I never said that I wanted it to be taken as seriously. I have posed a question to create discussion. I also said that I believe all sin is equal, but I feel that some sins have a greater consequence on this physical earth.

When you actually take the time to think about your question and answer it beyond the "all sin is sin" statement, you will abandon this silly notion of yours.

You can begin by defining sin. Then study from where does sin come. ETC.

Until then, I would suggest that you either buy a governor for your car and a speedometer that tracks fractions of speed.

Well, you might want to take the bus. No. That won't work either. You see, if the bus driver goes over the speed limit and stay on the bus, you are condoning his or her behavior. That's a sin. And so you would have to tell the driver to slow down. Same applies to taxi. How about the train? No way. You'd be car hopping to get to the engineer.

Just walk.
This comes across as quite condescending. I don't know if that was your intent. Have I not suggested it goes beyond "all sin is sin"?
 
Nov 25, 2014
942
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#10
We know that all sins are equal; all sin separates us from God. Do you feel that breaking the speed limit is a sin in that it does not obey local authorities? (Rend unto Caesar what is Caesar's)

Do we take it seriously enough?

Should we take it as seriously as the struggle with alcoholism or lying?


What are your thoughts on some sins being worse than others? My personal opinion is that all sins are equal but some sin has a larger social, personal, physical, and economical cost to it. Therefore, we're more likely to view the sins that affect ourselves and others as "worse," but in the end--they all separate us from God.
You're actually talking about two different concepts as if they are the same:
Concept 1: All sins are equal.
Concept 2: All sins separate us from God

The first concept doesn't jibe with human reality, common sense, or governmental systems. For example, a parent won't apply the same discipline to a child who forgets to take out the garbage vs. the child who lies and sneaks out of the house. Modern governments don't apply the punishment to a murder and someone who has run a red light. Even scripture, I believe, proves that the first one is false. All you have to do is read the Levitical laws and the varying punishments for the breaking of these laws. If all sins were equal, then why would they have differing punishments?

Having said that, all sins are the SAME in that they all lead to "death" (i.e. spiritual separation from God). Also, while we can engage in a thought exercise about the person whose ONLY sin is say...speeding. That reality would not exist. For example, in order for someone to consistently break a (seemingly small and harmless) governmental law, there has to be an underlying attitude of pride. Why do they speed? Because they are "safer" than other drivers, or their time is somehow more valuable, or the other drivers don't know what they're doing, etc. In other words, they view themselves as being above the law, or being a law unto themselves, instead of putting themselves into a position of submission. And, I guarantee you if someone suffers from the deadly sin of pride, it won't just manifest itself on the road. S/he will be lording it over family, or they'll be the "friend" who is constantly adjusting/advising/correcting, or they'll be the person in the pew praying, "thank you God that I'm not like the screw-up next to me."

Do we take it seriously enough? Probably not. I don't know of any person who really takes all of their sin as seriously as they should all of the time. I'm not even sure that it's possible to apply that level of intensity to ourselves. We're predisposed to justify all aspects of our behavior. Additionally, we live in a goodly amount of denial about some of it. Often when the Holy Spirit "wakes us up" to some of our sin, the loved ones around us are sighing with relief and saying "finally!"

What should the Church do?

The formula given for unrepentant sin is basically a slow build-up to excommunication or disfellowship. But, to continue with the thought exercise, is it really appropriate for a church to get so far up into your business that they'll kick you out if you have too many parking tickets? Do you really want to choke a (frankly) already overburdened ecclesiastical structure with these sorts of picayune issues?

The issues that the bible addresses regarding disfellowshiping have to do with enormously destructive behaviors--sexual immorality, following after idols, insidious false doctrine. I think if a congregation gets a handle on all of this, then maybe they'll be ready to move onto parking tickets and a failure to lower the toilet seat like your wife submissively asks.

Until then, I Cor 13 applies...."grace covers a multitude of sins."


 
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Called4Christ

Guest
#11
You're actually talking about two different concepts as if they are the same:
Concept 1: All sins are equal.
Concept 2: All sins separate us from God

The first concept doesn't jibe with human reality, common sense, or governmental systems. For example, a parent won't apply the same discipline to a child who forgets to take out the garbage vs. the child who lies and sneaks out of the house. Modern governments don't apply the punishment to a murder and someone who has run a red light. Even scripture, I believe, proves that the first one is false. All you have to do is read the Levitical laws and the varying punishments for the breaking of these laws. If all sins were equal, then why would they have differing punishments?

Having said that, all sins are the SAME in that they all lead to "death" (i.e. spiritual separation from God). Also, while we can engage in a thought exercise about the person whose ONLY sin is say...speeding. That reality would not exist. For example, in order for someone to consistently break a (seemingly small and harmless) governmental law, there has to be an underlying attitude of pride. Why do they speed? Because they are "safer" than other drivers, or their time is somehow more valuable, or the other drivers don't know what they're doing, etc. In other words, they view themselves as being above the law, or being a law unto themselves, instead of putting themselves into a position of submission. And, I guarantee you if someone suffers from the deadly sin of pride, it won't just manifest itself on the road. S/he will be lording it over family, or they'll be the "friend" who is constantly adjusting/advising/correcting, or they'll be the person in the pew praying, "thank you God that I'm not like the screw-up next to me."

Do we take it seriously enough? Probably not. I don't know of any person who really takes all of their sin as seriously as they should all of the time. I'm not even sure that it's possible to apply that level of intensity to ourselves. We're predisposed to justify all aspects of our behavior. Additionally, we live in a goodly amount of denial about some of it. Often when the Holy Spirit "wakes us up" to some of our sin, the loved ones around us are sighing with relief and saying "finally!"

What should the Church do?

The formula given for unrepentant sin is basically a slow build-up to excommunication or disfellowship. But, to continue with the thought exercise, is it really appropriate for a church to get so far up into your business that they'll kick you out if you have too many parking tickets? Do you really want to choke a (frankly) already overburdened ecclesiastical structure with these sorts of picayune issues?

The issues that the bible addresses regarding disfellowshiping have to do with enormously destructive behaviors--sexual immorality, following after idols, insidious false doctrine. I think if a congregation gets a handle on all of this, then maybe they'll be ready to move onto parking tickets and a failure to lower the toilet seat like your wife submissively asks.

Until then, I Cor 13 applies...."grace covers a multitude of sins."


Great post; quite thoughtful and respectful, thank you.

When I said equal, I had the intent of meaning "equal spiritually-speaking" in that it separates us from God (2). I did attempt (loosely) to address what you said in my final opinions (1), however, I hadn't entirely pulled the concept apart into two pieces. Yet, you're right--there are two separate concepts going on here. :)
 
G

Galahad

Guest
#12
Brother, I would ask you to please refrain from assuming how I feel. I never said that I wanted it to be taken as seriously. I have posed a question to create discussion. I also said that I believe all sin is equal, but I feel that some sins have a greater consequence on this physical earth.



This comes across as quite condescending. I don't know if that was your intent. Have I not suggested it goes beyond "all sin is sin"?
You created a link to this thread. You created that link in the discussion Is homosexuality a sin? I clicked on that link and then read your OP here.

Of course sin is sin. But some are worse than others.
If my kid told me "Dad, I have a problem was staying at the speed limit. I'd say do your best." But if my kid said there was a struggle with homosexuality or alcoholism, then there's more to addressed, a much greater concern. The sin is much different than a fraction over the speed limit. Just no comparison.

By attaching that link in Is homosexuality a sin, you diverted people's attention away from the question. It suggests to me you did not want that to be discussed. My answer is Yes, it is a sin.

I was not trying to be condescending. Just tried to show the level of the question. I answered it.

I apologize to you. I did not mean to be condescending.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,704
3,649
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#13
The smallest sin is great enough to send one to eternal destruction...think Garden of Eden.
Since the Fall there are varying degrees of temporal punishments, e.g. running a stop sign is insignificant compared to child rape.
But all men are under the condemnation that came from Adam and must deal with that thru Christ to have all other sins forgiven.
 
C

Called4Christ

Guest
#14
You created a link to this thread. You created that link in the discussion Is homosexuality a sin? I clicked on that link and then read your OP here.

Of course sin is sin. But some are worse than others.
If my kid told me "Dad, I have a problem was staying at the speed limit. I'd say do your best." But if my kid said there was a struggle with homosexuality or alcoholism, then there's more to addressed, a much greater concern. The sin is much different than a fraction over the speed limit. Just no comparison.

By attaching that link in Is homosexuality a sin, you diverted people's attention away from the question. It suggests to me you did not want that to be discussed. My answer is Yes, it is a sin.

I was not trying to be condescending. Just tried to show the level of the question. I answered it.

I apologize to you. I did not mean to be condescending.
I posted a new link because I felt it needed to be discussed separately because it takes attention away from the core of that thread. That thread is for discussing homosexuality. This thread is for discussing sin itself. That thread, however, was beginning to be filled with the discussion that is now here. I too believe it is a sin to act on same sex attraction, and as you know-- I say that as someone who struggles with same sex attraction.

Again, I think all sin has equal spiritual consequences. Death. Do I think that driving 45.5 in a 45 is a sin? Depends on your attitude behind it, I think, and thankfully I'm not the judge.
Sound ridiculous? Maybe. But God's ways are not our ways, nor are his thoughts our thoughts. The trouble with SSA (same sex attraction) and alcoholism, is that they dig deeper into us spiritually. I think it can take hold of our lives in a stronger, multifaceted way. Like I said, I think some sins have deeper consequences in this world than others. Driving 50 in a 45 will have far less of an impact than engaging in alcoholism or SSA behaviors.

I get what you're saying. I get that we shouldn't jail someone for jaywalking and give a slap on the wrist to a murderer. They need to be dealt with accordingly. Spiritually speaking, however, the spirit/attitude behind both of those things leads to death.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#15
I always thought sin was a transgression against God? I am having a hard time seeing that a violation of mans law is equal to transgression of Gods law. There is of course some overlap but not everything in mans law should be elevated to the level of Gods law.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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Called4Christ

Guest
#17
I always thought sin was a transgression against God? I am having a hard time seeing that a violation of mans law is equal to transgression of Gods law. There is of course some overlap but not everything in mans law should be elevated to the level of Gods law.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
You're absolutely correct in your definition of sin. However....
[h=3][/h]Romans 13: 1-5
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 4 for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.


EternalLife7: You can just copy and paste :)
 
Dec 26, 2012
5,853
137
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#18
I always thought sin was a transgression against God? I am having a hard time seeing that a violation of mans law is equal to transgression of Gods law. There is of course some overlap but not everything in mans law should be elevated to the level of Gods law.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
HMMM Paul wrote this to the Church at Rome.

Romans 13

1 Obey the government, for God is the one who put it there. All governments have been placed in power by God.
2 So those who refuse to obey the laws of the land are refusing to obey God, and punishment will follow.
3 For the authorities do not frighten people who are doing right, but they frighten those who do wrong. So do what they say, and you will get along well.
4 The authorities are sent by God to help you. But if you are doing something wrong, of course you should be afraid, for you will be punished. The authorities are established by God for that very purpose, to punish those who do wrong.
5 So you must obey the government for two reasons: to keep from being punished and to keep a clear conscience.
6 Pay your taxes, too, for these same reasons. For government workers need to be paid so they can keep on doing the work God intended them to do.
7 Give to everyone what you owe them: Pay your taxes and import duties, and give respect and honor to all to whom it is due.
 
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Galahad

Guest
#19
hey how do you post a new link?
Use linkback. Find that under the LIKES button at the top of the discussion.

Click on linkback. A box opens. Copy the link. Paste to your reply.