Todays Israel

[JimmieD]

As far as what I'm saying, I'm just stating based off of histroy. Look up the 6 day war. That's probably the best example I can give.

I see the 6 day war as masterful strategic planning and execution. I don't think there was anything particularly miraculous about it. Israel used a common military tactic - the element of surprise - to gain the initiative and capture the high ground (air dominance). It helped that it was mixed with incompetence, poor training, poor planning, and poor equipment/maintenance on the part of their opponents.

Divine intervention? I don't see it any more than divine intervention when Washington crossed the Delaware and took the Hessians by surprise. It's a common military tactic.

There are Scriptures in the OT indicating two regatherings. First one in unbelief..they will be building the Temple and making a compact with death (antichrist) all in unbelief. Then there are passages speaking of a 2nd regathering in belief. At least this may help explain your quandry even though you'll probably still have your doubts.

I still have my doubts on these interpretations, yes. Plus, I don't see a temple, an antichrist figure, or a compact. I see a secular state with the characteristics in my previous post.

 

[rakovsky]

By "Today's Israel", I believe the author means the modern Israeli State. The Israeli State defines itself specifically as dedicated to the community of nonChristian Judaism and its physical matrilineal descendants. In other words, it declares itself the state of the Jewish people, but its laws define the Jewish people as adherents of Judaism and those who have not converted to any other religion. For this reason, the Israeli State denies Messianic Jewish Christians the "Right of Return". For their government to consider you Jewish you have to (A) practice official Judaism or (B) prove that you are Jewish on your mother's side and haven't converted to another religion like Christianity.

Often people see the Israeli state as that of the Jewish people in a purely ethnic sense, and thus a continuation of ancient Israel. I saw it this way myself until I found out about how the state defines its community and I learned about the harsh mistreatment of native Palestinian Christians by the Israeli state.

So what the title question is really asking is whether the institutions of nonChristian Judaism is today fulfilling Bible prophecy. This is really a different question from whether the Jewish people (physical descendants of ancient Israel) are in Biblical prophecy.

 

[crossnote]

It is fulfilling bible prophecy insofar as they have been regathered in unbelief...perhaps in preparation for one of the severest chastisements yet administered by God to bring about repentance.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It is fulfilling bible prophecy insofar as they have been regathered in unbelief...perhaps in preparation for one of the severest chastisements yet administered by God to bring about repentance.

also known prophetically as the "time of jacobs trouble" which is yet to come

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

i don't believe that the modern state of israel is a fulfillment of any biblical prophecy...

however that doesn't mean i don't believe that its establishment and continued existence is not an act of God...

more and more i am believing that the establishment and preservation of the modern state of israel is a temporary act of mercy by God...similar to the story at the end of second samuel where God is so grieved by the suffering of the people that he commands a halt to his own plague...

 

[Bookends]

amen, sadly to some people. forever does not mean forever, and eternal does not mean eternal (rolls eyes)

Here is something for you to consider, I hope you prayerfully ponder these verses:

6 Also he made his son pass through the fire, practiced soothsaying, used witchcraft, and consulted spiritists and mediums. He did much evil in the sight of the Lord, to provoke Him to anger.

7 He even set a carved image of Asherah[c] that he had made, in the house of which the Lord had said to David and to Solomon his son, “In this house and in Jerusalem, which I have chosen out of all the tribes of Israel, I will put My name forever;

8 and I will not make the feet of Israel wander anymore from the land which I gave their fathers—only if they are careful to do according to all that I have commanded them, and according to all the law that My servant Moses commanded them.”

 

[Bookends]

i don't believe that the modern state of israel is a fulfillment of any biblical prophecy...

however that doesn't mean i don't believe that its establishment and continued existence is not an act of God...

more and more i am believing that the establishment and preservation of the modern state of israel is a temporary act of mercy by God...similar to the story at the end of second samuel where God is so grieved by the suffering of the people that he commands a halt to his own plague...

...either that or God is allowing a stumbling block to Christians for their lack of commitment and obedience to Him. Putting more emphasis/time and resources on Israel the nation (and the so called "rapture") then the great commission in their own communities and our evangelists abroad.

 

[Bookends]

It is fulfilling bible prophecy insofar as they have been regathered in unbelief...perhaps in preparation for one of the severest chastisements yet administered by God to bring about repentance.

Such chastisements drive two types of people in two different directions. Those who fear God are brought closer to Him. Those who reject God react in a form of blasphemy (insights from the OT and history of the Israelites). How a person responds to calamity demonstrates where their heart is. Those who reject Christ are rejecting God, which is blasphemy. If the holocaust (which was another gathering of the Jews) was a chastisement of God, then they "as a whole majority" demonstrated where their loyalty lies, for they never repented and continue to reject Christ to this day.

God said if they repented first, then He would gather them together again, not the other way around.

Levitcus 26

40 ‘But if they confess their iniquity and the iniquity of their fathers, with their unfaithfulness in which they were unfaithful to Me, and that they also have walked contrary to Me,
41 and that I also have walked contrary to them and have brought them into the land of their enemies;
if their uncircumcised hearts are humbled, and they accept their guilt— (Key to salvation)
42 then I will remember My covenant with Jacob, and My covenant with Isaac and My covenant with Abraham I will remember;
I will remember the land.
43 The land also shall be left empty by them, and will enjoy its sabbaths while it lies desolate without them;
they will accept their guilt, because they despised My judgments and because their soul abhorred My statutes.

 

[Bookends]

amen, sadly to some people. forever does not mean forever, and eternal does not mean eternal (rolls eyes)

Ok, using the same reasoning that you using here, when the Lord makes a promise or says He is going to do something, He will not turn on it.

Read 2 Kings 22:16-17

16 “Thus says the Lord: ‘Behold, I will bring calamity on this place and on its inhabitants—all the words of the book which the king of Judah has read— 17 because they have forsaken Me and burned incense to other gods, that they might provoke Me to anger with all the works of their hands. Therefore My wrath shall be aroused against this place and shall not be quenched.’”’


Therefore, God is saying that His wrath shall not be quenched which is directed at Judah. Using the same reasoning as you, then God wrath against Judah to this day has not been quenched. There are no conditions of God's wrath not being quenched in this passage, there are no conditions of repentance mentioned here. But there are in other parts of the bible, (Leviticus 26:40-43) Therefore, of coarse I don't believe that God's wrath lasts forever regarding Judah here, for God did establish Israel again, who were of Judean descent, after the Babylonian captivity.

 

[Bookends]

amen, sadly to some people. forever does not mean forever, and eternal does not mean eternal (rolls eyes)

Ok, using the same reasoning that you using here, when the Lord makes a promise or says He is going to do something, He will not turn on it.

Read 2 Kings 22:16-17

16 “Thus says the Lord: ‘Behold, I will bring calamity on this place and on its inhabitants—all the words of the book which the king of Judah has read— 17 because they have forsaken Me and burned incense to other gods, that they might provoke Me to anger with all the works of their hands. Therefore My wrath shall be aroused against this place and shall not be quenched.’”".

(note: God did make a condition for a time, because the king of Judah, Josiah, repented, but there was no condition besides that, the Wrath God promised was directed toward Judah the nation as a whole).

Therefore, God is saying that His wrath shall not be quenched which is directed at Judah. Using the same reasoning as you, then God wrath against Judah to this day has not been quenched. There are no conditions of God's wrath not being quenched in this passage, there are no conditions of repentance mentioned here. But there are in other parts of the bible, (Leviticus 26:40-43) Therefore, of coarse I don't believe that God's wrath lasts forever regarding Judah here, for God did establish Israel again, who were of Judean descent, after the Babylonian captivity.