The purpose of Christ

[just-me]

There are many in CC that are teaching that Jesus changed and made certain things His own Father spoke to ancient Israel void. I believe it is the grace of God that made those things, that are supposedly abolished, accessible to Gentiles, such as us, for our learning.

This is the most contentious subject in the church of today. I have seen this controversy for over 30 years, within several protestant denominations. On one side (which I believe as false) the church teaches that Jesus came to free us from the law that God delivered to Israel via Moses, preaching that Jesus came to either crucify the law of His own Father, or it has just been made void, and is abolished in order to make us free in Christ while separating us from the Father. This separation also includes a doctrinal separation from Jews, for if we affiliate ourselves with these things, we will again be in bondage to God's Old Covenant instructions.

I question why the church would teach this change of direction that causes us to take our spiritual eyes off what Jesus really came to do, and that is to abolish and void out our sinful carnal nature.

The final end is that God's word stays and our old nature goes so we are free through Christ Jesus.
It is not that God's words vanish to make us free from the law of God. The law of sin and death is carnality, being totally opposite from God's law, so the teaching that I believe to be false says that God's law is actually the law of sin and death making God's word more carnal than His own creation.

I have even heard it taught that Paul received the mystery of the Gospel first before the disciples of Jesus did.

This falsehood is using Jesus as an excuse to debunk His own Father's instructions to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile. Yes, there was a change in the priesthood, but that doesn't prove that the priesthood changed or made void God's instructions to the Jews/Judah, or ancient Israel.

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." Romans 1:16

Romans 2:9-10
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
[SUP]10 [/SUP]But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

My hope for starting this thread is for all of us to focus on how Christ (through the Holy Spirit) conforms true believers into His image rather than conforming God's word into our carnal image causing spiritual blindness to the truth.

"Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?" Isaiah 29:16

 

[Grandpa]

I question why the church would teach this change of direction that causes us to take our spiritual eyes off what Jesus really came to do, and that is to abolish and void out our sinful carnal nature.

Its called repentance. You are turning away from your work at the law (which shows your sin) and you are turning toward the One who makes you Righteous.

We are to abide in Christ. We are to observe Christ. If we turn away from Christ to observe the weak and beggarly old covenant jewish law, we fall from His Grace and Power. We have turned back to our own strength and understanding.

Its really simple.

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

If you go back to the law you are going back to sin having dominion over you. If you desire to constantly observe the law you are constantly observing sin having dominion over you.

If you desire for sin to not have dominion over you there is only one place to abide, One Person to observe, and that is the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

Just-Me, you put forth the same argument many have made, that if Jesus did not “abolish” the law, then it must still be binding. That represents, in my opinion, a misunderstanding of His Gospel, and what He said in the Sermon on the Mount in particular.

Matthew 5, NASB
17 "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.
18 "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished."​

This argument has a wide-ranging list of components, one being the claim the Sabbath-day requirement must be operative still. That simply is not true. Another is the one we see daily on this board, repeatedly ad nauseum, that being the need to perform works in conjunction with faith in Christ to "truly" be saved. Again, rubbish.

These assumptions are grounded in a misunderstanding of the words and intent of Jesus. Christ did not suggest here that the binding nature of the law of Moses would remain forever in effect. Such a view would contradict everything we learn from the balance of the New Testament.

Romans 10
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Galatians 3
23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed.
24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.
25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

Ephesians 2
14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall,
15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace,
16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity.​

Of special significance in this study is the word rendered “abolish.” It is the Greek kataluo (kataluo), literally meaning "to loosen down." The word is found seventeen times in the New Testament. It is used, for example, of the destruction of the Jewish temple by the Romans in Matthew 26:61 and 27:40, as well as in Acts 6:14.

It is also used in reference to the dissolving of the human body at death in 2 Corinthians 5:1. The word can carry the extended meaning of "to overthrow," i.e., "to render vain, deprive of success." In classical Greek, it was used in connection with institutions, laws, etc., to convey the idea of "to invalidate."

In Matthew 5:17, "abolish" is set against the word pleroo (pleroo) -- to "fulfill." Christ "... did not come to abolish, but to fulfill." Jesus was not in opposition to the law. Rather, He revered it, loved it, obeyed it, and brought it to it's conclusion. His goal was not to prevent its fulfillment. He fulfilled the law’s prophetic utterances regarding Himself.

Luke 24
44 Now He said to them, "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled."​

Christ fulfilled the demands of the Mosaic law, which called for perfect obedience under threat of a "curse" as seen in Galatians 3:10, 13. In this sense, and only in this sense, does the Law's divine design continue to have an abiding effect. It will always accomplish the purpose for which it was given.

If the Mosaic Law bears the same relationship to men today, in terms of its binding status, then it has not been fulfilled at all, in contradiction to Jesus' own words, and He therefore failed at what He came to do. On the other hand, if the Lord did accomplish His goal, then the law was fulfilled, and it is not a binding legal institution today.

Further, if the law of Moses was not fulfilled by Christ -- and thus remains as a binding legal system for today -- then it is not just partially binding, but is a totally compelling system. Jesus plainly said that not one "jot or tittle" would pass away until all was fulfilled. Consequently, nothing of the law was to fail until it had completely accomplished its purpose.

Jesus fulfilled the law. Jesus fulfilled all of the law. It cannot be said that Jesus fulfilled the sacrificial system, but did not fulfill the rest of the law. Jesus either fulfilled all of the law, or none of it. What Jesus' death means for the sacrificial system, it also means for the other aspects of the Law.

 

[Willie-T]

I think one of the main reasons for Jesus' time here was to show us just what He said... that He and God are one, and identical in aim and desire. I think He spent a lot of time trying to get us to see that, through OUR religiosity, we had made God into something He is not. Jesus said, "If you have seen me, you have seen God."

 

[just-me]

If Jesus came to change His Father's will, how can we trust in a changing God? If Jesus came to change us, and not His Father's words, then that is something that I can trust in. I believe, in many cases, despite one's sincerity, that if we focus more on Jesus changing things so much from the Old to the New (concerning God's word) that we are taking our eyes off of ourselves. If we focus more on Jesus changing the old man completely to the new man, then we can see the absolute necessity of needing our Savior every day. I think that concentrating more on the change that Jesus made concerning the covenants, blinds us to the fact of what Jesus was actually sent to do in us, not for us.

"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." 2 Corinthians 5:17

"And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness" Ephesians 4:24

"Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life." Romans 6:4

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

If Jesus came to change His Father's will, how can we trust in a changing God?

You continue to frame the question incorrectly. It is not "If Jesus came to change His Father's will ... " but is is "How does the Law fit into the Father's will?" The way you ask the question, it is an invalid question, a heretical question. Jesus did not come to change His Father's will. He came to do -- and He, in fact, accomplished -- the Father's will. I don't know why you insist on putting forth a question that comes out of an errant assumption.

 

[Skinski7]

The purpose of Jesus was this...

Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.


1. Redeem us from all iniquity.
2. Make us pure.

The result of the above makes one zealous for doing the right thing.

The law is not voided but fulfilled via a faith that works by love.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Faith establishes the law. We see this in another verse...

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Jesus was an example of us to follow, we are to walk in the Spirit like Jesus did. The law cannot establish righteousness because it is merely descriptive of external conduct as opposed to being descriptive of the condition of the heart. A faith working by love is descriptive of a pure heart out of which genuine righteousness flows.

None of this is confusing or complicated in the least. The reason it is rejected as the standard is because many people simply do not want to yield wholeheartedly to God whereby they would be quickened unto a faith that works by love. Many people want a "salvation" which is inclusive of ongoing wickedness and thus have to uphold fake doctrine which server to CLOAK or COVER ongoing sin as opposed to having sin actually purged once and for all.

The Bible says this right before Rom 8:4...

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

The law could not condemn sin in the flesh and uphold righteousness in the heart. The law was always merely instructions for the external and thus rote obedience to external instructions combined with uncrucified passions and desires could never bring genuine righteousness.

Jesus came in a flesh body and was tempted in all points as we are but NEVER sinned. Jesus NEVER sinned because Jesus WALKED according to the Spirit. Jesus did this as an example for us to follow.

1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
1Pe 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
1Pe 2:23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
1Pe 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

We have to die to sin in repentance and henceforth live unto righteousness. We do that through the cross.

Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

The modern false teachers IGNORE "we should not serve sin." They ignore it because they believe in Original Sin which denotes sinning as an involuntary action resultant of a natural birth state. Thus they cannot conceive in their mind that the "service" (obedience) to sin has to stop.

Look at these forums at how so many people argue in favour of "sin we will and sin we must." These people believe ongoing sin is inevitable and that if one denies it they have no truth in them (they twist 1Joh 1:8 out of context). These people are not really Christians because they do not follow the example of Christ. The example of Christ is not one of inevitable sinning, the example of Christ is one of walking according to the Spirit and having victory over the lusts of the flesh, lust of the eyes, and the pride of life.

A Christian is a Christ follower.

1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

 

[just-me]

You continue to frame the question incorrectly. It is not "If Jesus came to change His Father's will ... " but is is "How does the Law fit into the Father's will?" The way you ask the question, it is an invalid question, a heretical question. Jesus did not come to change His Father's will. He came to do -- and He, in fact, accomplished -- the Father's will. I don't know why you insist on putting forth a question that comes out of an errant assumption.

Ephesians 2:15-16
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Please describe your understanding of this scripture and what it is actually saying in your estimation. I understand it as the physical temple and Aaronic priesthood (that revealed a division) was abolished in Christ with it's ordinances. I don't believe it is talking about Exodus 20 through 23, and other commandments in compression to those.

 

[Skinski7]

What was abolished was the Old Covenant with its requirements of having to keep an external rule set.

The standard of righteousness was not abolished but is still in full effect. The unrighteousness will not enter the kingdom of God.

2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
2Co 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
2Co 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
2Co 3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
2Co 3:12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
2Co 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
2Co 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
2Co 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
2Co 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Read the above passage carefully.

The ministry of condemnation via the law (Old Covenant) is done way via the ministry of the Spirit wherefore righteousness is fulfilled in us (New Covenant).

In other words we don't approach God through the Old Covenant means of keeping rules and regulations and via sacrificing animals. We approach God through repentance and faith DIRECTLY whereby we are regenerated to WALK in the Spirit by a faith that works by love. There is NO FILTHINESS OF HEART in salvation. There may be ignorance to a certain degree and that is where growth comes in, but there is NO FILTHINESS OF HEART.

All willful sin is a result of filthiness of heart because it is a violation of the law of love. Sin is a violation of love. As Christians we are to love God with ALL our heart, mind and soul and love our neighbour as ourselves. That is the standard God requires and we do it through walking according to the Spirit. In other words we are set free from the law of sin and death via the Spirit of life IN Jesus Christ. The gift of God is eternal life THROUGH Jesus Christ.

Do not settle for anything less.

Satan sells a cheap salvation message. It is cheap because it is as fake as a Rolex watch sold on the streets of Hanoi. Don't buy it.

 

[just-me]

Look at these forums at how so many people argue in favour of "sin we will and sin we must." These people believe ongoing sin is inevitable and that if one denies it they have no truth in them (they twist 1Joh 1:8 out of context). These people are not really Christians because they do not follow the example of Christ. The example of Christ is not one of inevitable sinning, the example of Christ is one of walking according to the Spirit and having victory over the lusts of the flesh, lust of the eyes, and the pride of life.

A Christian is a Christ follower.

1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

AMEN!!! Nailed (pun intended)

 

[Jeff_56]

There are many in CC that ....... had no understanding.." Isaiah 29:16

absolutely true. the joy with all the angels in heaven is if even one of them repents and is immersed in the NAME of yahshua hamashiach to be saved. (they refuse to be so far)

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

Ephesians 2:15-16
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Please describe your understanding of this scripture and what it is actually saying in your estimation. I understand it as the physical temple and Aaronic priesthood (that revealed a division) was abolished in Christ with it's ordinances. I don't believe it is talking about Exodus 20 through 23, and other commandments in compression to those.

Your understanding would Paul in conflict with Paul. What did he say in Galatians, as I quoted earlier?

Galatians 3, NASB
23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed.
24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.
25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.​

Also, the "dividing wall" Paul speaks of in Ephesians 2:14 (which I quoted and you didn't, thus removing the context) is that wall between Jewish and Gentile believers. You must realize, Israel is a "type" of all mankind, and the Law was given to them to show the futility of living righteously apart from the grace of God. So it is with all men. No one can live in sinless perfection, nor are we expected to do so. That is why Christ's righteousness is imputed to us.

He fulfilled the Law by living the perfect life of which we are incapable. He then trades that life to us in exchange for our sin, for which He died on the cross. In so doing, He allows His perfection to pass to us, while our imperfection is punished by His death. But then by His resurrection, He overcomes that death, thus winning the battle on our behalf and granting to us the rewards of His victory. The condemnation of the Law is overcome, and by His grace we have eternal life through faith in Him as an efficacious sacrifice on our behalf and the certainty that we now abide in Him.

 

[Jeff_56]

... had not understanding....

 

[Sirk]

absolutely true. the joy with all the angels in heaven is if even one of them repents and is immersed in the NAME of yahshua hamashiach to be saved. (they refuse to be so far)

how do you know who is saved or not? There are some pretty serious mental issues that accompany such a claim, and as such, is why you have almost nil credibility on this board.

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

... had not understanding....

Care to elaborate?

 

[Chica]

There are many in CC that are teaching that Jesus changed and made certain things His own Father spoke to ancient Israel void. I believe it is the grace of God that made those things, that are supposedly abolished, accessible to Gentiles, such as us, for our learning.

This is the most contentious subject in the church of today. I have seen this controversy for over 30 years, within several protestant denominations. On one side (which I believe as false) the church teaches that Jesus came to free us from the law that God delivered to Israel via Moses, preaching that Jesus came to either crucify the law of His own Father, or it has just been made void, and is abolished in order to make us free in Christ while separating us from the Father. This separation also includes a doctrinal separation from Jews, for if we affiliate ourselves with these things, we will again be in bondage to God's Old Covenant instructions.

I question why the church would teach this change of direction that causes us to take our spiritual eyes off what Jesus really came to do, and that is to abolish and void out our sinful carnal nature.

The final end is that God's word stays and our old nature goes so we are free through Christ Jesus.
It is not that God's words vanish to make us free from the law of God. The law of sin and death is carnality, being totally opposite from God's law, so the teaching that I believe to be false says that God's law is actually the law of sin and death making God's word more carnal than His own creation.

I have even heard it taught that Paul received the mystery of the Gospel first before the disciples of Jesus did.

This falsehood is using Jesus as an excuse to debunk His own Father's instructions to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile. Yes, there was a change in the priesthood, but that doesn't prove that the priesthood changed or made void God's instructions to the Jews/Judah, or ancient Israel.

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." Romans 1:16

Romans 2:9-10
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
[SUP]10 [/SUP]But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

My hope for starting this thread is for all of us to focus on how Christ (through the Holy Spirit) conforms true believers into His image rather than conforming God's word into our carnal image causing spiritual blindness to the truth.

"Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?" Isaiah 29:16

But, didn't he make the law void by being our sacrifice for sin? Under the law we were pronounced guilty but by being the appropriation for us He saved us from the death penalty of the law and in so doing God the Father has become gracious towards us.

Jesus has become the Mercy Seat and the Mercy Seat on the Ark of the Covenant was where Gods mercy abided, and, was the continual throne of grace in the Holy of Holies.

 

[Sirk]

Care to elaborate?

Are you sure you want him too? I think I'd rather that he kept his secret knowledge a secret.

 

[Chica]

Ephesians 2:15-16
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Please describe your understanding of this scripture and what it is actually saying in your estimation. I understand it as the physical temple and Aaronic priesthood (that revealed a division) was abolished in Christ with it's ordinances. I don't believe it is talking about Exodus 20 through 23, and other commandments in compression to those.

Please describe your understanding of this scripture and what it is actually saying in your estimation.

It's about the unity of believers and how Jesus has formed the two antagonistic groups of Jews and Gentiles into a single new party, the Christian church.

I understand it as the physical temple and Aaronic priesthood (that revealed a division) was abolished in Christ with it's ordinances. I don't believe it is talking about Exodus 20 through 23, and other commandments in compression to those.

Ephesians 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us.

The middle wall of partition is reference to the Mosaic Law. The law was maent to protect Jews from pagan corruptions; they misconstrued the purpose of the law and felt superior to the Gentiles and this caused a rift between the two.

So Jesus abolished this enmity caused by an abuse of the law by making the law invalid for His church.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

There are many in CC that are teaching that Jesus changed and made certain things His own Father spoke to ancient Israel void. I believe it is the grace of God that made those things, that are supposedly abolished, accessible to Gentiles, such as us, for our learning.

This is the most contentious subject in the church of today. I have seen this controversy for over 30 years, within several protestant denominations. On one side (which I believe as false) the church teaches that Jesus came to free us from the law that God delivered to Israel via Moses, preaching that Jesus came to either crucify the law of His own Father, or it has just been made void, and is abolished in order to make us free in Christ while separating us from the Father. This separation also includes a doctrinal separation from Jews, for if we affiliate ourselves with these things, we will again be in bondage to God's Old Covenant instructions.
I question why the church would teach this change of direction that causes us to take our spiritual eyes off what Jesus really came to do, and that is to abolish and void out our sinful carnal nature.

Jesus came to FULFILL the law - Is the "law" still good? Are "principals" set in the "law" still valid as instruction for godly living? There are things in the "law" that no longer have any validity . . . food (what to eat), the instructions to "priests", sacrifices, going to a certain city for worship (temple), etc. Are the ten commandments carried through to the NT? Emphatically - YES.

If things in an instruction to the "church", the body of Christ, have changed - does that mean the "person" characteristics have changed? Of course not!

There are three classifications of people in the word of God - Jews, Gentiles, church of God. ONLY those born again and have the spirit of God and of Christ dwelling in them via the gift of holy spirit belong to the church of God.

The final end is that God's word stays and our old nature goes so we are free through Christ Jesus.
It is not that God's words vanish to make us free from the law of God. The law of sin and death is carnality, being totally opposite from God's law, so the teaching that I believe to be false says that God's law is actually the law of sin and death making God's word more carnal than His own creation.

I have even heard it taught that Paul received the mystery of the Gospel first before the disciples of Jesus did.

This falsehood is using Jesus as an excuse to debunk His own Father's instructions to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile. Yes, there was a change in the priesthood, but that doesn't prove that the priesthood changed or made void God's instructions to the Jews/Judah, or ancient Israel.

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." Romans 1:16

Romans 2:9-10
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
[SUP]10 [/SUP]But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

My hope for starting this thread is for all of us to focus on how Christ (through the Holy Spirit) conforms true believers into His image rather than conforming God's word into our carnal image causing spiritual blindness to the truth.

"Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?" Isaiah 29:16

Our "old nature" does not GO away until it dies. We have a "new nature" clothed in the "old nature". If it just goes away once we are born again . . .why does God tell us to put on the new and put off the old? (Eph. 4:22-24; Col. 3:9,10) Why would we have to mortify the deeds of the body? (Rom. 8:13) - Cast down imaginations (2 Cor. 10:5) - renew our minds to line up with the inward man (new creation) (Eph. 4:23; Col. 3:10) These are "works" of the NT that we do in order to "put on Christ".

Concerning the mystery - You say - I have even heard it taught that Paul received the mystery of the Gospel first before the disciples of Jesus did. This falsehood . . . BUT God says: Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept SECRET since the world began. (Romans 16:25) How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is NOW revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit . . . . (Eph. 3:3-5) Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation [administration] of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and generations but NOW is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: (Col. 1:25-27) . . . . And he received the revelation of this mystery from Jesus Christ - But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither receive it of man, neither was I taught it, but by revelation of Jesus Christ. (Gal. 1:11,12)

 

[Chica]

I think one of the main reasons for Jesus' time here was to show us just what He said... that He and God are one, and identical in aim and desire. I think He spent a lot of time trying to get us to see that, through OUR religiosity, we had made God into something He is not. Jesus said, "If you have seen me, you have seen God."

I think the main reason for Jesus' time here was to set up a "visible" Kingdom on earth. First God tried with Adam and Eve but the fall ended that. Then through the call of Abraham God took the first step toward a "visible" Kingdom on earth under Moses, and during the administration of Moses, Joshua, and the Elders that outlived Joshua, the Judges, David, Solomon, the kings of Israel and Judah down to the Babylonish Captivity, God reigned through these men under the form of a "Theocracy".

Under the Judgeship of Samuel there was a revolt against the "Theocracy," and Saul was chosen by the people as King. This was followed by God choosing David. But the misrule of his successors, and the idolatry of the people, caused a cessation of the Theocratic reign in B.C. 606, and the "Times of the Gentiles" began.

After the "Times of the Gentiles" God announced through Gabriel the birth of the King (i.e.Jesus) and thirty years later John the Baptist announced that the Kingdom was at hand. When Jesus announced Himself to Israel He Himslef made the same announcement as John the Baptist:

From that time Jesus began to preach, and say Repent: for the kingom of heaven is at hand. Matt.4:17

Jesus was rejected and crucified and the Kingdom was postponed.