Geocentric model: stationary Earth. Is it the Biblical and logical view?

[Grandpa]

Ok Looked a bit at he website you quoted. I did a degree in physics so I know a bit about the subject.
The controversial point is quite important. The first is special theory of relativity is wrong. The second is the big bang theory has a big hole in it which dark energy and dark matter are designed to fill.

Now I know about the problem of dark energy etc. but this problem could be solved is if gravity behaves differently at very large scales.

The problem of idea of a geocentric universe is at first insane, because we know the earth going round the sun is observable fact. If there is a problem shown up with GPS and the speed of light, then that is very significant.

I am therefore very interested. Anything that is measurable matters, because you can construct experiments to confirm or deny the proposition. The accusation is scientists are biased, which again is 100% true, especially is they are atheists.
One reason for the multiple universe idea is because science was leading them to the conclusion the universe could only exist because one constant had to exist at a value so precise 10^20+ that it only could happen if it was planned.

But that hypothosis had to be rejected because that would mean religion mattered. I will look into this further, but currently I am a little sceptical, but I am always open to ideas if they make sense.

I didn't have a problem with geocentrism, at first, either. After all, its just deciding to look at the universe from our perspective that we already have.

From earth, it looks like everything moves around us and we are stationary.

So why would it be so strange if this were the truth? To me it wouldn't be strange.

But what caught me is I like to shoot rifles. I am interested in shooting them long distances. In ballistics, when shooting at long distances, you have to make a correction for the spin of the earth. I could explain this correction, if you needed me to, but it was this correction that caused me to think that the earth is at least rotating on an axis. I don't know if its also moving through space as well, but it is rotating. Just based on ballistics corrections at long distances.

 

[oldhermit]

The Geocentric view is the only acceptable view in my mind. At first, I wasn't sure, but now I'm more than sure. Of course I will open myself to a host of scorn and contempt, but that hasn't stopped me from believing in the Bible, when "smart people" told me the Bible isn't true.

Job 26: 7
He stretches out the north over the void, and hangs the earth upon nothing.

Ecclesiastes 1:5
The sun rises and the sun goes down, and hastens to the place where it rises.


Joshua 10:12-13
Then spoke Joshua to the Lord in the day when the Lord gave the Amorites over to the men of Israel; and he said in the sight of Israel, "Sun, stand thou still at Gibeon, and thou Moon in the valley of Aijalon." And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the nation took vengeance on their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jashar? The sun stayed in the midst of heaven, and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day.

Habakkuk 3:11 The sun and moon STOOD STILL in their habitation...


Has anyone felt an earth quake? If you did, you felt the earth move right? According to a Sun centered Universe, the Earth is traveling 30 kilometers a second. There is no proof of this happening. Throw dirt straight in the air, it falls back to the area which it was thrown. Planes do not have to make adjustments to their flights plans based upon the rotation of the Earth, because the earth is not in motion!

For those that are about to release the blood hounds on me, remember Albert Einstein said, either theory will work. I choose the Geocentric model since it is Biblical and makes sense in my mind.

Albert Einstein quote:
"The struggle, so violent in the early days of science, between the views of Ptolemy and Copernicus would then be quite meaningless. Either CS could be used with equal justification. The two sentences, 'the sun is at rest and the earth moves,' or 'the sun moves and the earth is at rest,' would simply mean two different conventions concerning two different CS."

Web pages to look at for reference..
www.geocentrism.com Is It Possible?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvwMc1jcR7Y

Wow. I'll bet you school teacher is proud of you.

 

[Grandpa]

Wow. I'll bet you school teacher is proud of you.

IF it was a public school teacher they would only be proud of you if you somehow proved that religion was false and that there is no God.

 

[Angela53510]

Actually, this is geocentrism is anthropomorphic. It assumes humanity is the center of the universe.

I prefer a theocentric approach, that reveals God as the center of everything, not people. So where is God located? Pretty much everywhere.

I think that we can go back to the solar system rotating around the sun, and assume that God created it that way for a reason.

But so good to know that God is everywhere, and we don't have to have silly ideas about cosmology or astrophysics!

 

[dcontroversal]

Actually, this is geocentrism is anthropomorphic. It assumes humanity is the center of the universe.

I prefer a theocentric approach, that reveals God as the center of everything, not people. So where is God located? Pretty much everywhere.

I think that we can go back to the solar system rotating around the sun, and assume that God created it that way for a reason.

But so good to know that God is everywhere, and we don't have to have silly ideas about cosmology or astrophysics!

In the North parts HAHHA The heaven is his throne and the earth his foot stool..... Lucifer wanted to ascend and sit on the throne , in the sides of the NORTH......interestingly enough....I have heard that there is nothing behind the North Star...tree or not I don't know......

 

[SolidGround]

The Bible does not teach geocentricsism. The Word is given to us through human perspective that we could relate to it... which is why the Word became flesh: to relate to us, that His sacrifice could be related upon us, that we could have a relationship with God.

From human perspective, the sun rises and sets. That is not debatable. In His desire to relate Himself to us, He levels with us, as revealed in the Word.

If the Bible had a verse that ACTUALLY gave an outside view of Creation, citing a geocentric idea, THEN there would be a debate... but no such verse exists.

The reference point of the Word is the space between birth and death.
It is all about LIFE. It is all about God's Plan for Life, and His Plan of Redemption for Life, and His Plan for Eternal Life.
The Word is not given from God's perspective, but from His revelation to mankind!
With this in mind, OF COURSE the Word would refer to the sun as rising and setting, and would say that it stopped if it looked like it stopped.

If the sun stopped in the sky tomorrow, would anyone say "oh look, the earth has stopped in it's rotation."? NO. They would say "the sun stopped in the middle of the sky!"
Humanity speaks from it's own perspective, which is ground -> up. The Word speaks to humanity, and relates to humanity.

 

[valiant]

The Geocentric view is the only acceptable view in my mind. At first, I wasn't sure, but now I'm more than sure. Of course I will open myself to a host of scorn and contempt, but that hasn't stopped me from believing in the Bible, when "smart people" told me the Bible isn't true.

Job 26: 7
He stretches out the north over the void, and hangs the earth upon nothing.

Ecclesiastes 1:5
The sun rises and the sun goes down, and hastens to the place where it rises.


Joshua 10:12-13
Then spoke Joshua to the Lord in the day when the Lord gave the Amorites over to the men of Israel; and he said in the sight of Israel, "Sun, stand thou still at Gibeon, and thou Moon in the valley of Aijalon." And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the nation took vengeance on their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jashar? The sun stayed in the midst of heaven, and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day.

Habakkuk 3:11 The sun and moon STOOD STILL in their habitation...


Has anyone felt an earth quake? If you did, you felt the earth move right? According to a Sun centered Universe, the Earth is traveling 30 kilometers a second. There is no proof of this happening. Throw dirt straight in the air, it falls back to the area which it was thrown. Planes do not have to make adjustments to their flights plans based upon the rotation of the Earth, because the earth is not in motion!

For those that are about to release the blood hounds on me, remember Albert Einstein said, either theory will work. I choose the Geocentric model since it is Biblical and makes sense in my mind.

Albert Einstein quote:
"The struggle, so violent in the early days of science, between the views of Ptolemy and Copernicus would then be quite meaningless. Either CS could be used with equal justification. The two sentences, 'the sun is at rest and the earth moves,' or 'the sun moves and the earth is at rest,' would simply mean two different conventions concerning two different CS."

Web pages to look at for reference..
www.geocentrism.com Is It Possible?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvwMc1jcR7Y

The truth is that I am the centre of the Universe. All that I am aware of 'around me' is what my senses perceive. But I know that my senses are limited and not wholly reliable. Thus I cannot be sure that what I perceive is really as it appears to me. So Geocentrism or Solcentrism are simply aspects of my perceptions. It may be that my senses are simply misrepresenting them. Whether they are actually occurring outside my perceptions I have no way of knowing. Ah well. Back to sleep.

 

[prove-all]

an older, long thread on the fixed earth subject

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/2712-fixed-earth.html

 

[posthuman]

I have set the LORD always before me:
because he is at my right hand, I shall not be moved.
(Psalm 16:8)
​

therefore the universe revolves around David.
or not.

 

[psychomom]

I have set the LORD always before me:
because he is at my right hand, I shall not be moved.
(Psalm 16:8)
​

therefore the universe revolves around David.
or not.

*chuckles gently*

 

[wincam]

*chuckles gently*

and around you and I - even the stars move - last nights stars have moved - wincam

 

[posthuman]

I think if you look at the world around you, it is very natural to see a Geocentric view.

yep. and fleas naturally take a dog-centric view.
doesn't make it correct.

Who the hell sees the world from the Sun's perspective? Solar Flares?

let's see, Who do we know that is above the universe .. ?

​

 

[Grandpa]

yep. and fleas naturally take a dog-centric view.
doesn't make it correct.



let's see, Who do we know that is above the universe .. ?

​

How about a Son-centric view? or a Son-centric universe?

 

[PeterJens]

Problem with geocentric proposals is the claim special and general relativity is wrong.
Let me point out one scientific problem, atomic clocks. Atomic clocks are so accurate now you can show if time is relative to your velocity or position over a body of large mass, ie relative gravity, it can now be measured.

They have measured the effect, by synchronizing clocks together and then making one travel at a speed for a defined time and then comparing the clocks again. This shows a difference.
You can do this also with clocks together in a room, raise one 1ft or 30 cm above the other, and the times change.

So the question then comes, if gravity or velocity have this effect, then we are not in a purely Newtonian world.
Now the other problem with a stationary earth is the speed galaxies would need to be moving at billions of light years away to rotate around the world in 24hrs. It is far simpler to assume they are actually stationary, and it is earth that is rotating as you observe with the light of the sun hitting earth as it spins.

Now the justification of such an idea of a stationary earth is to support the importance of God. He certainly does not need supporting in such a world, or does it make sense of what we know about moving objects on the planet. Importance is about intent not position. Children do not believe they are important to their parents because the whole house revolves around them, but because the parents meet the needs of the children and show support and affection towards them.
Look at Jesus, he is the example of support and affection, but in a quiet loving way, not the spectacular way with authority and power and grand standing which the geo-stationary argument is maintaining. It is much more like the Lord to hide his influence so those who which to walk alone by their own understanding will walk continue in error.

 

[Elin]

The Geocentric view is the only acceptable view in my mind. At first, I wasn't sure, but now I'm more than sure. Of course I will open myself to a host of scorn and contempt, but that hasn't stopped me from believing in the Bible, when "smart people" told me the Bible isn't true.

Job 26: 7
He stretches out the north over the void, and hangs the earth upon nothing.

Ecclesiastes 1:5
The sun rises and the sun goes down, and hastens to the place where it rises.


Joshua 10:12-13
Then spoke Joshua to the Lord in the day when the Lord gave the Amorites over to the men of Israel; and he said in the sight of Israel, "Sun, stand thou still at Gibeon, and thou Moon in the valley of Aijalon." And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the nation took vengeance on their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jashar? The sun stayed in the midst of heaven, and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day.

Habakkuk 3:11 The sun and moon STOOD STILL in their habitation...


Has anyone felt an earth quake? If you did, you felt the earth move right? According to a Sun centered Universe, the Earth is traveling 30 kilometers a second. There is no proof of this happening. Throw dirt straight in the air, it falls back to the area which it was thrown. Planes do not have to make adjustments to their flights plans based upon the rotation of the Earth, because the earth is not in motion!

For those that are about to release the blood hounds on me, remember Albert Einstein said, either theory will work. I choose the Geocentric model since it is Biblical and makes sense in my mind.

Albert Einstein quote:
"The struggle, so violent in the early days of science, between the views of Ptolemy and Copernicus would then be quite meaningless. Either CS could be used with equal justification. The two sentences, 'the sun is at rest and the earth moves,' or 'the sun moves and the earth is at rest,' would simply mean two different conventions concerning two different CS."

Web pages to look at for reference..
www.geocentrism.com Is It Possible?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvwMc1jcR7Y

It has some compelling arguments, for sure. . .particularly when all is relative.

 

[Elin]

I hate to point this out, but it is actually irrelevent. All you are talking about is reference points. If you are the reference point then the universe is moving and you are stationary.

That would be one's perception, but that doesn't make it factual.

If the sun in the reference point, then the earth is travelling around the sun etc.

The only dispute historically was the idea that everything revolved around the earth with the earth being the most important feature, which is gravity and rotation it is not.

Secondly, everything in space is hanging in nothing, because space ( 3d space) with nothing in it is what defines space.

So what are you saying that is so controversial?

 

[Elin]

the sun is the centre of the solar mass the earth is the centre of the universe mass - the earth does not move and www.galileowaswrong.com and also see under Geocentrism www.johnsalza.com - wincam

How can the earth not move in the moving solar mass and remain the center of the moving universe mass?

 

[Elin]

Clearly !

Whilst kinda respecting the poster,
it is unfortunate that this type of thinking does great damage to Christians and their message.
Geocentrics, flat-earthers, some creationists, even climate-change deniers - invite ridicule and destroy credibility.

You don't need geocentrics, flat-earthers, some creationists, even climate-change deniers to invite ridicule.

The gospel itself invites ridicule. . .which is why Paul declared he was not ashamed of it.

 

[Elin]

The Bible does not teach geocentricsism.
The Word is given to us through human perspective that we could relate to it... which is why
the Word became flesh: to relate to us, that His sacrifice could be related upon us, that we could have a relationship with God.

Oh, my dear brother. . .the Word is given to us from God's perspective and as God's truth.

And the Word became flesh to do what spirit could not do--die a sacrifice of propitiation,
as a ransom for many (Mt 20:28).

From human perspective, the sun rises and sets. That is not debatable. In His desire to relate Himself to us, He levels with us, as revealed in the Word.

The Word of God does not reveal God "leveling" with us.

It reveals God elevating (illuminating) us by his Holy Spirit to understand his word given from his perspective.

Does he use human language? Yes, but that doesn't equate to human perspective.

If the Bible had a verse that ACTUALLY gave an outside view of Creation,
citing a geocentric idea, THEN there would be a debate... but no such verse exists.

Have you tried Ps 19:6 and the circuit of the sun?

The reference point of the Word is the space between birth and death.

Have you read Gen 1-3?

It is all about LIFE. It is all about God's Plan for Life, and His Plan of Redemption for Life, and His Plan for Eternal Life.

Did you miss the parts about sin, judgment, unbelief, etc.?

The Word is not given from God's perspective,

And you know this, how?

Do you have a Scriptural basis for this?

Quite frankly, I don't need or want it from any other perspective than his,
and certainly not from man's perspective.

I want to be delivered from man's perspective.

but from His revelation to mankind!

You've got the cart before the horse.

His revelation to mankind is from his perspective, not the other way around.

With this in mind, OF COURSE the Word would refer to the sun as rising and setting, and would say that it stopped if it looked like it stopped.

If the sun stopped in the sky tomorrow, would anyone say "oh look, the earth has stopped in it's rotation."? NO. They would say "the sun stopped in the middle of the sky!"

Don't confuse the historical accounts with God's revelation of himself, his divine nature, his holiness, his truth, his ways, his will, etc.

Humanity speaks from it's own perspective, which is ground -> up.
The Word speaks to humanity, and relates to humanity.

Which does not equate to it speaking from humanity's perspective.

 

[Elin]

The truth is that I am the centre of the Universe. All that I am aware of 'around me' is what my senses perceive. But I know that my senses are limited and not wholly reliable. Thus I cannot be sure that what I perceive is really as it appears to me. So Geocentrism or Solcentrism are simply aspects of my perceptions. It may be that my senses are simply misrepresenting them. Whether they are actually occurring outside my perceptions I have no way of knowing. Ah well. Back to sleep.

Not quite. . .much occurs in the spiritual realm "around me" apart from my sensual perception that I know is true, because God has revealed it in his word written.