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If you saw through God's eyes you would feel ashamed about your belief. If there is such thing as a sinless and perfect human being then they no longer can grow in Christ or become stronger in him as they are now perfect they are no longer sinners. Love does not judge the quality of a believers heart by the amount they don't sin, Love sees them in their weakness in their sin and loves them dearly anyways. I am a sinner I sin I hate it but I do it I repent and I try again, I am not good enough according to your belief but I am to him. You think you are helping ppl with your doctrine? your only hurting them
Ya that is a scripture you use often and I have told you what it means how it means to strive to be perfect not to actually be perfect, how only with the right heart the right motives can you even attempt to strive to be perfect. Like how you can only be strong in the Lord with the right heart and motive and only out of love or you will fail, but again can you tell me why this says this?1 John 1:8-If we claim we have no sin, we are only fooling ourselves and not living in the truth. I cannot for the life of me think of any other meaning this scripture is talking about what say you?
Jason l have rarely seen a pastor who is not unfit and yes he is overweight, your American eyes deceive you. A man walking in the light will make sure his body is fit and no l am not underweight. The fault is in your American eyes, being so accustomed to seeing overweight people. This is the trouble with those from your camp. You can't see sin though it is staring you in the face.
Are you saying that Paul was not perfect? You are misinterpreting that scripture as Paul is talking about his ministry and martyr Dom. He continues further on to say the 'those who are perfect'.
So what about you? Are you perfect?
Are you saying that Paul was not perfect? You are misinterpreting that scripture as Paul is talking about his ministry and martyr Dom. He continues further on to say the 'those who are perfect'.
So what about you? Are you perfect?
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That statement does not really mean anything unless you can provide a Bible verse and or real world example to prove your case. Jesus said in John 8 that if you sin, you are a slave to sin. Jesus said this to Pharisees and he was not saying this in a favorable way.
Up is down and down is up and darkness is light. Why would you want to still be a sinner in serving God? Do you think God wants you to sin? Do you think Jesus lied when He said for you to be perfect? What is your opinion on 1 Peter 4:1 and Galatians 5:24? Will I get silence from you on those verses?
Telling people that they can be set free from sin is not hurting them but it is helping them; and you have no Biblical proof that proves otherwise. I have offered verses that you are not discussing.
Up is down and down is up and darkness is light. Why would you want to still be a sinner in serving God? Do you think God wants you to sin? Do you think Jesus lied when He said for you to be perfect? What is your opinion on 1 Peter 4:1 and Galatians 5:24? Will I get silence from you on those verses?
Telling people that they can be set free from sin is not hurting them but it is helping them; and you have no Biblical proof that proves otherwise. I have offered verses that you are not discussing.
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Jesus said we will be condemned by our own words. Take the beam out of your own eye first.
As for Philippians 3:12: Here it is in the New Living Translation if it is not clear enough.
"I don't mean to say that I have already achieved these things or that I have already reached perfection. But I press on to possess that perfection for which Christ Jesus first possessed me."
As for Philippians 3:12: Here it is in the New Living Translation if it is not clear enough.
"I don't mean to say that I have already achieved these things or that I have already reached perfection. But I press on to possess that perfection for which Christ Jesus first possessed me."
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Regardless, the so-called "Pelagian believer" -- which, in my opinion, is a true oxymoron -- believes that once he/she is saved, every behavioral consequence after that moment of salvation becomes his/her responsibility. In other words, there is no grace after faith, only for the faith given up to the moment of belief.
That is utter nonsense, contrary to the true Gospel, and puts man, not Christ, on the throne of an individual's life.
That is utter nonsense, contrary to the true Gospel, and puts man, not Christ, on the throne of an individual's life.
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I've seen this utter filth before. I don't have to watch it to know you are sold out to a "doctrine" of lies, no-truths, and self-sufficiency. You and this idiot in the video are two peas in a pod, and neither of you know Christ.
I don't know why I even bother addressing you. You are so steeped in filth you cannot get it out of your eyes to see the truth.
I don't know why I even bother addressing you. You are so steeped in filth you cannot get it out of your eyes to see the truth.
Satan has two major lies for mankind.
1. You can sin and not surely die.
2. It is impossible to obey God.
Those two lies can be fluffed out in all manner of ways.
In a nutshell it is taught that one cannot do this...
2Co 10:1 Now I Paul myself beseech you by the meekness and gentleness of Christ, who in presence am base among you, but being absent am bold toward you:
2Co 10:2 But I beseech you, that I may not be bold when I am present with that confidence, wherewith I think to be bold against some, which think of us as if we walked according to the flesh.
2Co 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
2Co 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
2Co 10:6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.
If you cannot obey God then you do not have to. That is why a false doctrine like the "Imputed righteousness of Christ" which teaches that the literal "obedience of Jesus" is substituted for your obedience can gain so much ground. Even though the Bible says it is "faith" that is reckoned as righteousness, a "faith that obeys" like Abraham had, it does not matter to many people. They will argue in favour of ongoing rebellion to God as being the only possibility and dress it up in form of godliness by pretending to uphold morality, ie. "you should not sin but you will."
1. You can sin and not surely die.
2. It is impossible to obey God.
Those two lies can be fluffed out in all manner of ways.
In a nutshell it is taught that one cannot do this...
2Co 10:1 Now I Paul myself beseech you by the meekness and gentleness of Christ, who in presence am base among you, but being absent am bold toward you:
2Co 10:2 But I beseech you, that I may not be bold when I am present with that confidence, wherewith I think to be bold against some, which think of us as if we walked according to the flesh.
2Co 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
2Co 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
2Co 10:6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.
If you cannot obey God then you do not have to. That is why a false doctrine like the "Imputed righteousness of Christ" which teaches that the literal "obedience of Jesus" is substituted for your obedience can gain so much ground. Even though the Bible says it is "faith" that is reckoned as righteousness, a "faith that obeys" like Abraham had, it does not matter to many people. They will argue in favour of ongoing rebellion to God as being the only possibility and dress it up in form of godliness by pretending to uphold morality, ie. "you should not sin but you will."
I am afraid that you misunderstand Pelagianism as in what Pelagius taught which can be clearly assertained in his dispute with Augustine over Romans 7. Unlike Jason and co he did not say that Romans 7 is an unbeliever. He taught holiness doctrine that says it is a believer in a crisis that becomes entire sanctification.
Jesus does not say strive to be perfect.
That is an addition to Scripture that you have added (and such a thing is wrong).
As for 1 John 1:8: Well, 1 John 1:8 is a warning to the brethren about the false believers who were trying to deceive them into a false way of thinking, which was to say one had no sin whatsoever. Meaning, their belief is similar to the Antinomian today who says their sin was forgiven them past, present, and future and they had no more sin debt. So sin (on a spiritual level) does not exist for them because it is taken away in Christ. So when they sin, they are saying they don't have sin because it is forgiven (All of it) versus say.... Confessing your sin so as to be forgiven of it (1 John 1:9) (Which is what the true believer does if sin were to arise in their life). However, there are many Antinomian folks today who say they do not have to confess their sins because they have no more sin debt. They are saying they have no sin spiritually (even when they sin), which is wrong.
That is an addition to Scripture that you have added (and such a thing is wrong).
As for 1 John 1:8: Well, 1 John 1:8 is a warning to the brethren about the false believers who were trying to deceive them into a false way of thinking, which was to say one had no sin whatsoever. Meaning, their belief is similar to the Antinomian today who says their sin was forgiven them past, present, and future and they had no more sin debt. So sin (on a spiritual level) does not exist for them because it is taken away in Christ. So when they sin, they are saying they don't have sin because it is forgiven (All of it) versus say.... Confessing your sin so as to be forgiven of it (1 John 1:9) (Which is what the true believer does if sin were to arise in their life). However, there are many Antinomian folks today who say they do not have to confess their sins because they have no more sin debt. They are saying they have no sin spiritually (even when they sin), which is wrong.
No it doesn't. God knows there are those who will struggle to put sin behind them on their road to recovery. For if what you say is true, then there would be no alcholics who would be sober free all because people have seen them slip up on occasion. But such is not the case. An alcoholic who desires to be set free from his sin can put it behind him (even if others have seen him slip up on occasion).
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you personally haven't hurt the ppl I know but your doctrine did, your doctrine created atheists even made ppl become severely depressed and remembering the damage and pain and sadness this doctrine did to ppl makes me infuriated but at the same time I am crying. your doctrine has hurt me personally deeply because i love and care so much for these ppl but because they were apparently not good enough they never knew how deeply they were loved and cared. My heart simply cannot take seeing ppl in pain seeing their tears because they are never good enough to ppl like you and to the world.
But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. Not as though I had already attained, [attained what? resurrection] either were already perfect: [context subject: resurrection] but I follow after, if that I may apprehend [lay hold of so as to possess, to appropriate] that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Philippians 3:7-14 When are we perfected? When we are raised in glory until then we press toward the prize . . . When do we receive the prize? When we are raised in glory . . . . We are to keep looking forward to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, our hope, the anchor of our soul . . . Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ; [Titus 2:14] We will be totally "perfected" when we are raised in glory . . . Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself even as he (Christ) is pure. [1 John 3:2,3]
