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for you it is art ok .
as a Christian it is the exploitation of women mainly by men for sexual gratification. the secular would call that art too.
your opinion is not in line with the context Porn.
your example would not be porn either. the women intentions were not sinful I'm . All though the suggestion to believe that would happen seems naive. Porn is not a rock, porn is not whisky . Porn is short for pornography
the understanding of this word is :the depiction of erotic behavior (as in pictures or writing) intended to cause sexual excitement, material (as books or a photograph) that depicts erotic behavior and is intended to cause sexual excitement , the depiction of acts in a sensational manner so as to arouse a quick intense emotional reaction <the pornography of violence> if you leave Pornography on the ground like a rock and a person sees the rock and the pornography and becomes sexual excited by the rock you would have a point.
I do not care what the article says I care more of what the effects of porn has been on men and women today. Porn is sin. it is not Art , in the context of biblical mind set . in the world you are right in the Word of god you are wrong.
Pornography feeds lust is the issue with it, watch enough porn it will lead to desiring things of lust. sexual immorality is forbidden because it was the means of worship of pagan dieties. Perversions in the sight of God, who ordained sexual relations to be between a married couple. many of the perversions that seem as if they are a new age thing, began thousands of years ago as acts worship of false gods. Many things in the world root themselves in worship of false dieties....
many men make excuses for porn because they are addicted to sexual perversion. they have become self deceived in accepting fantasy as reality. yes they find no long term satisfaction. so it becomes more of only gratification at the expense of abusing women. The Bible is clear the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit and it would be hard to see what some call art when the moral standard seems to always degenerate into things on thinkable. many many serial killers saw porn as just harmless art. maybe you should go and listen to Ted Bunndy's tapes or other and see how this end up being just art .
Christian men who defend porn most of the time have issues with it. That has been my experience as a counselor
Christian men who defend porn most of the time have issues with it. That has been my experience as a counselor
Here is the problem that people have when trying to identify if something is a sin. There is no grey area. It's either black or white. You are either walking in the Spirit or the flesh. The light is either on or off. You can't serve two masters. I would say that pornography is 100% flesh. Satisfying any sexual desire or act other than sexual intercourse is of the flesh. Sex is supposed to be pleasurable but sex for pleasure is of the flesh and there is no arguement you can say to the contrary that makes sense. If a wild animal wouldn't do it, it's sin. Animals have sex for procreation. It's the scent of an ovulating female that initiates desire. We as a species have abandoned everything natural and that is what sin is. Eating pleasurable food for nutrition, good. Eating for pleasure, sin. Having a house that's nice, good. Having to own the nicest house, sin. Jesus tried so many times to explain this to us. He said don't worry about what you eat and wear. He said lust and hate are just as bad as adultery and murder. You are either living in the Spirit or the flesh. If your actions are based on love for others than you can't sin because you have no desire for it. How can you murder someone you love? If his needs are put ahead of yours, then his joy will be your joy. The Ten Commandments are not there to try to live by. If you need to wonder if you are sinning then you are not walking in the Spirit. This is so simple, a child could get it. You can not turn right and left at the same time.
I can explain this further but this is all Spiritually discerned. If you don't agree with this then you missed the whole message of Christianity. It's not about rules, it's about desire. Do you desire to serve the body and give it the pleasures it yearns for or do you desire to ignore the yearnings of purposeless pleasure to allow the Spirit of God to lead you and use you where He chooses. Who is your master? If you choose the flesh, then there will be no resurrection because that master will die. If you choose The Heavenly Father then He will give you a new body at the resurrection. This soul within us is eternal. It will either have a body or be eternally displaced unable to feel and sense ever again. There will be an eternal hunger and thirst that will never be quenched because our souls are designed to be in a vessel.
I can explain this further but this is all Spiritually discerned. If you don't agree with this then you missed the whole message of Christianity. It's not about rules, it's about desire. Do you desire to serve the body and give it the pleasures it yearns for or do you desire to ignore the yearnings of purposeless pleasure to allow the Spirit of God to lead you and use you where He chooses. Who is your master? If you choose the flesh, then there will be no resurrection because that master will die. If you choose The Heavenly Father then He will give you a new body at the resurrection. This soul within us is eternal. It will either have a body or be eternally displaced unable to feel and sense ever again. There will be an eternal hunger and thirst that will never be quenched because our souls are designed to be in a vessel.
D
In the eyes of this woman, (and my last username on this site was AtWhatCost, so I'm the same person returned), it's not cheating. It doesn't bother me at all if he does it. Never has. And he wasn't sneaking off doing it. I still trust him. And we've been married 36 years.
(And, I can't believe this post showed up again. Yeesh! lol)
(And, I can't believe this post showed up again. Yeesh! lol)
D
Actually when he looked at porn, his conclusions were always the same. She's not built right." And by that, he always thought I was built better. (The man has eyes only for me. I'm pretty sure he wears rose colored glasses, but who am I to complain when it always comes back to wanting me?) It always ended with me.
(I can't see his heart, but he's always been good at verbalizing what he's thinking.)
(I can't see his heart, but he's always been good at verbalizing what he's thinking.)
I don't know how anybody can even be lukewarm about whether porn is sin. Let's just say if I enjoyed watching people get murdered, so there was people who made videos of killing people. Even if the ones being killed consented to it wouldn't it be wrong. These murderers would be committing sin because I wanted to watch it. These lives would be taken because of me. The murderer is just a tool. These women who are being used as sex toys, giving themselves for fame and money, spirits being broken and shattered because they would rather be wanted to be used as a cheap throwaway than to be not wanted at all. Can people not see that these men and women perpetuate the idea that sex is for carnal pleasure void of emotion? How about the after math when these women have been defiled and their bodies suffer the lasting damage of improper acts, maybe disease and the only thing that gave them a sense of value is gone? What about the shame they suffer that may prevent them from ever stepping into a church in fear of being judged. If we are to be a light in this world I think our standard needs to be higher than sidestepping a Commandment on a technicality. Yes I get that it may not clearly defined as adultery. That doesn't mean it's not sin. If I legally swindle elderly people out of their life savings because they didn't read the fine print, am I a light? The Ten Commandments say nothing about getting kids hooked on crack or heroine, so it must be OK? Some of us really need to make a little more heart room for Christ and others. There will be sheep and goats, no lawyers at the judgement. The Law will be there to condemn you not protect you.
Jesus said anyone who even looks at someone to lust after them has already commited adultery with them in their heart- this means you imagine being with that person you're looking at. But we have a different situation today- we have movies and music. Who don't imagine that the characters in the movie are themselves and their crush? Or music lyrics to be about your own personal relationship? (Stay with me).
A husband can watch a romantic scene and imagine that it's him and his wife. But he can't have sex with another woman and imagine she's his wife- because that is actual marital unfaithfulness. It is the same to imagine a scene in a play that you act in is an actual murder, and have it not be murder, but if you really do murder someone in the play scene, you are an actual murderer, or thief, or adulterer- if you are actually doing it in the scene, and not just pretending.
But nakedness is a whole other subject. There is only one relationship that shares absolutely everything with each other- a husband and wife. Only they should see each other naked in a sexual manner. Doctors might need to see you naked, a caregiver might, a statue or figurine might display some nakedness, but if there is no lust involved then it's not sin. We wear clothes because not everyone has that strength and maturity when they look upon someone without clothes. But to look upon porn (which is completely depleted of anything that comes from God- love, marriage, etc), is to join them in their sins that they are displaying on the screen.
Would I divorce my husband for watching porn? No, but there'd be a busted up computer and some major yelling going on! He would have to convince me he's extremely sorry and repent of that. When you marry someone, your hearts are completely open and vulnerable to each other. To hit someone in their most sensitive spot without warning, defense, or bracing themselves- that is totally the opposite of love. Love and trust once broken is hard to repair. Any spouse (husband or wife) who turns to porn instead of to the one they've vowed to love, is splashing mud all over the purity of marriage.
If they are involved with porn it is sinful and damaging to a marriage.
If they are imagining being with that actual person, or actually are with that actual person, it is cheating.
A husband can watch a romantic scene and imagine that it's him and his wife. But he can't have sex with another woman and imagine she's his wife- because that is actual marital unfaithfulness. It is the same to imagine a scene in a play that you act in is an actual murder, and have it not be murder, but if you really do murder someone in the play scene, you are an actual murderer, or thief, or adulterer- if you are actually doing it in the scene, and not just pretending.
But nakedness is a whole other subject. There is only one relationship that shares absolutely everything with each other- a husband and wife. Only they should see each other naked in a sexual manner. Doctors might need to see you naked, a caregiver might, a statue or figurine might display some nakedness, but if there is no lust involved then it's not sin. We wear clothes because not everyone has that strength and maturity when they look upon someone without clothes. But to look upon porn (which is completely depleted of anything that comes from God- love, marriage, etc), is to join them in their sins that they are displaying on the screen.
Would I divorce my husband for watching porn? No, but there'd be a busted up computer and some major yelling going on! He would have to convince me he's extremely sorry and repent of that. When you marry someone, your hearts are completely open and vulnerable to each other. To hit someone in their most sensitive spot without warning, defense, or bracing themselves- that is totally the opposite of love. Love and trust once broken is hard to repair. Any spouse (husband or wife) who turns to porn instead of to the one they've vowed to love, is splashing mud all over the purity of marriage.
If they are involved with porn it is sinful and damaging to a marriage.
If they are imagining being with that actual person, or actually are with that actual person, it is cheating.
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Well said. The big argument seems to be linked as to whether it's cheating and cheating is the sin. Often when you watch porn its an empathetic response and you are participating neurologically. If you want a better understanding of this look up mirror neurons. Is the whole point of linking it to adultery so we can find a loophole to divorce our spouse?
As much as we want the Bible to back our ideology, we can't assume it's meaning out of text. The Bible never permitted the wife to leave her husband for infidelity. If she leaves, even if he cheated on her she will still be committing adultery if she remarries.
I understand that you can't put new wine in old wineskins. Before the man was the owner of the property and the provider for the home. If he divorced her, she would starve. I guess that was a good reason for her to be faithful. The men were divorcing their wives to replace them. They didn't want to provide for them anymore. The alternative was to find a man who didn't care that she was adulterous and basically would be forced into an unblessed marriage or situation. Men were allowed to have many wives and concubines. Is it fair? No. Is it scripture? Yes. The men would probably have to make a sin offering or something for adultery.
It is important to understand that first of all, we are under the new covenant. We do not look to the Law to abide by it for righteous living. When we are in Christ, we become slaves to righteousness. We ignore the flesh and walk in the Spirit. That doesn't mean that we have to wear camel hair robes and live on grasshoppers and wild honey (John the Baptist), but our decision making can't be based on pleasure. When we have sex we can make it pleasurable but sex is not a tool for pleasure. That is of the flesh!
Unless you see Spiritually, you will miss what most of the Bible is saying. Our mind affects our body and our soul. The body and the soul affect the mind. As Christians our minds are to be transformed by the Spirit mixed with our soul, ignoring the body's influence (temptations of the flesh). If you are walking in the Spirit then sin is easily identified, especially where something as debased and flesh led as porn is concerned.
As much as we want the Bible to back our ideology, we can't assume it's meaning out of text. The Bible never permitted the wife to leave her husband for infidelity. If she leaves, even if he cheated on her she will still be committing adultery if she remarries.
I understand that you can't put new wine in old wineskins. Before the man was the owner of the property and the provider for the home. If he divorced her, she would starve. I guess that was a good reason for her to be faithful. The men were divorcing their wives to replace them. They didn't want to provide for them anymore. The alternative was to find a man who didn't care that she was adulterous and basically would be forced into an unblessed marriage or situation. Men were allowed to have many wives and concubines. Is it fair? No. Is it scripture? Yes. The men would probably have to make a sin offering or something for adultery.
It is important to understand that first of all, we are under the new covenant. We do not look to the Law to abide by it for righteous living. When we are in Christ, we become slaves to righteousness. We ignore the flesh and walk in the Spirit. That doesn't mean that we have to wear camel hair robes and live on grasshoppers and wild honey (John the Baptist), but our decision making can't be based on pleasure. When we have sex we can make it pleasurable but sex is not a tool for pleasure. That is of the flesh!
Unless you see Spiritually, you will miss what most of the Bible is saying. Our mind affects our body and our soul. The body and the soul affect the mind. As Christians our minds are to be transformed by the Spirit mixed with our soul, ignoring the body's influence (temptations of the flesh). If you are walking in the Spirit then sin is easily identified, especially where something as debased and flesh led as porn is concerned.
It is sinful no matter what. Also, just because things are in the Bible does not make them right. God meant for there to be one man and one woman in a marriage. And it works both ways- whether it's the husband or the wife that cheats- she has a right to divorce him if he cheats. And although pornography is wrong, sinful, evil, it is physical marital unfaithfulness that allows for divorce if the innocent one so chooses to do so. Otherwise that's like divorcing him for other sins.
There is only one reason for divorce- and that is physically having sex with another person. It's like if a cop could read your mind as he walked by, and in your mind you decided to rob a bank, he still can't arrest you unless you actually do it. But when God judges you, you will be guilty of committing that crime because you did so in your heart. In the same way, a wife who knows her husband had sex with another in his heart only cannot divorce him, but God will judge him for that- and he will pay for that sin- whether with Christ's blood or his eternal soul. Visa versa- goes for her.
So can he purposely do it anyways thinking it will be covered by Christ's blood? No, sin has consequences both in this life and on judgement day. God says that if a man mistreats his wife (makes her cry) that God will not hear his prayers. And no matter what the sin is, the Bible says that for those who sin purposely there no longer remains a sacrifice for sin. That means if you have that attitude of taking advantage of grace, come judgement day you are on your own without Christ's help. You'd have to pass judgement based on your own merit.
There is only one reason for divorce- and that is physically having sex with another person. It's like if a cop could read your mind as he walked by, and in your mind you decided to rob a bank, he still can't arrest you unless you actually do it. But when God judges you, you will be guilty of committing that crime because you did so in your heart. In the same way, a wife who knows her husband had sex with another in his heart only cannot divorce him, but God will judge him for that- and he will pay for that sin- whether with Christ's blood or his eternal soul. Visa versa- goes for her.
So can he purposely do it anyways thinking it will be covered by Christ's blood? No, sin has consequences both in this life and on judgement day. God says that if a man mistreats his wife (makes her cry) that God will not hear his prayers. And no matter what the sin is, the Bible says that for those who sin purposely there no longer remains a sacrifice for sin. That means if you have that attitude of taking advantage of grace, come judgement day you are on your own without Christ's help. You'd have to pass judgement based on your own merit.
D
I really am getting a kick on how many are going on about how it ruins marriages. Especially since they're telling this to someone who has been happily married for 35 years.
So, okay. You all keep waving this flag. As I said, I can't believe this got pulled up again. It doesn't seem to matter. It's everyone has their message to preach and who is asking never really mattered. One-size-fits-all.
I won't bother to let you in on how it turns out. It would ruin the narrative.
So, okay. You all keep waving this flag. As I said, I can't believe this got pulled up again. It doesn't seem to matter. It's everyone has their message to preach and who is asking never really mattered. One-size-fits-all.
I won't bother to let you in on how it turns out. It would ruin the narrative.
Yes.
Now the real issue….. how many people looked at pron and felt so heart sick for the woman, man, even child in that porn that you laid your hands on the monitor, page and prayed for the freedom of bondage and sin?
When I caught, my son looking at porn as a teen I made him pray with me every day for their salvation and freedom from sexual bondage for about 3 months. I said you want to look at it great go ahead it gives us specific people to pray for. And together we would pull up his trash lay hands on the monitor and pray. He does not look at it anymore because he has a biblical worldview of porn. He sees what all Christians should see people in need of a Savior not people as entertainment trapped in satanic bondage.
Oh yah, if your mind wonders… my opinion only….
Either you’re not in-love or your just in a lot of bondage. There is something GREAT about being “with” your spouse.
Now the real issue….. how many people looked at pron and felt so heart sick for the woman, man, even child in that porn that you laid your hands on the monitor, page and prayed for the freedom of bondage and sin?
When I caught, my son looking at porn as a teen I made him pray with me every day for their salvation and freedom from sexual bondage for about 3 months. I said you want to look at it great go ahead it gives us specific people to pray for. And together we would pull up his trash lay hands on the monitor and pray. He does not look at it anymore because he has a biblical worldview of porn. He sees what all Christians should see people in need of a Savior not people as entertainment trapped in satanic bondage.
Oh yah, if your mind wonders… my opinion only….
Either you’re not in-love or your just in a lot of bondage. There is something GREAT about being “with” your spouse.
You seem to have great wisdom. I can tell that your knowledge is not from books alone. To share a little piece of the puzzle with you, understand this, there is no written law for Christians. In Hebrews 10 it is explained a bit. If the Spirit of God is in you, the Law is not needed because it is written on your heart. Divorce or no divorce, there is no Law.
Let me try to explain it this way, you know how just after you clean your house from top to bottom, you are so protective of making messes? You see when something is out of place and the hand prints on the walls are more noticeable. The Law was given as a measure of sin. When you did these things it was like making a mess. Then you would make a sacrifice and it was cleaning a mess. The cleaner you kept your life then the more you would want to keep it clean. Sinful nature is something like having a daycare where kids come in and make a mess constantly. Then at the end of the day you clean it up so the next day they come and do it all over. Christ came to give us the Holy Spirit. We become a new creation with the a heart desiring to please God. It's a heart desiring to do good, not a heart trying not to do bad. Most people can't see the difference but I think you can. The reason I'm stating this is because there is no more Laws for divorce, for the husband or the wife. There is no judgement for those in Christ. There is salvation, you have it or you don't. Whether you divorce or stay married according to scripture doesn't mean as much as what Christ is putting in your heart. It's not divorce that was sinful, it was the remarrying. If you have to look to Scripture to make your decision it means that the Law is not written on your heart. It's not Old Testament Law, it's intrinsically knowing right from wrong. However, if what you intrinsically believe to be right goes against Scripture than you better check your heart for residency (this isn't directed at you).
Let me try to explain it this way, you know how just after you clean your house from top to bottom, you are so protective of making messes? You see when something is out of place and the hand prints on the walls are more noticeable. The Law was given as a measure of sin. When you did these things it was like making a mess. Then you would make a sacrifice and it was cleaning a mess. The cleaner you kept your life then the more you would want to keep it clean. Sinful nature is something like having a daycare where kids come in and make a mess constantly. Then at the end of the day you clean it up so the next day they come and do it all over. Christ came to give us the Holy Spirit. We become a new creation with the a heart desiring to please God. It's a heart desiring to do good, not a heart trying not to do bad. Most people can't see the difference but I think you can. The reason I'm stating this is because there is no more Laws for divorce, for the husband or the wife. There is no judgement for those in Christ. There is salvation, you have it or you don't. Whether you divorce or stay married according to scripture doesn't mean as much as what Christ is putting in your heart. It's not divorce that was sinful, it was the remarrying. If you have to look to Scripture to make your decision it means that the Law is not written on your heart. It's not Old Testament Law, it's intrinsically knowing right from wrong. However, if what you intrinsically believe to be right goes against Scripture than you better check your heart for residency (this isn't directed at you).