The Role of the Woman

[Hepzibah]

Ever since the beginning, men have excluded women from translating the scriptures from the original and doing theology. So we have a Bible that is heavily biased towards a man's understanding and that is why there is such an emphasis on sexual sin and lust, neither of which are a common fault in women. For women it is often passivity that is their besetting sin.

There is a great book that every woman should read:

http://www.amazon.com/Gods-Word-Women-Katharine-Bushnell/dp/0974303100

which explains what submission really means translated directly from the Hebrew and Greek by a WOMAN.

She also explains that it was Adam that was thrown out of heaven, not Eve who was deceived which is nothing like the rebellion from her husband. Eve chose to go with him and was therefore putting herself under man's rule. If she had stayed who knows maybe Adam would have repented.

 

[JFSurvivor]

I'm in blue- also sorry because the numbering got messed up.
The Role of the Woman


The Woman Is a Helper

1. God made it a man’s world, and Eve was created to be his helping companion (Gen 2:18-25).

(this is from an article) Therefore, could we conclude that Genesis 2:18 be translated as "I will make a power [or strength] corresponding to man." Freedman even suggests on the basis of later Hebrew that the second word in the Hebrew expression found in this verse should be rendered equal to him. If so, then God makes for the man a woman fully his equal and fully his match. In this way, the man's loneliness will be assuaged.

This line of reasoning, which stresses full equality, is continued in Genesis 2:23 where Adam says of Eve, "This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called ‘woman,' for she was taken out of man." The idiomatic sense of this phrase "bone of my bones" is a "very close relative" to "one of us" or in effect "our equal."

The woman was never meant to be an assistant or "helpmate" to the man. The word "mate" slipped into English since it was so close to the Old English word "meet," which means "fit to" or "corresponding to" the man which comes from the phrase that likely means "equal to."

The Torah Study for Reform Jews says, "From the time of creation, relationships between spouses have at times been adversarial. In Genesis 2:18, God calls woman an ezer kenegdo, a "helper against him." The great commentator Rashi takes the term literally to make a wonderful point: "If he [Adam] is worthy, [she will be] a help [ezer]. If he is not worthy [she will be] against him [kenegdo] for strife." This Jewish study also described man and woman facing each other with arms raised holding an arch between them, giving a beautiful picture of equal responsibility


You can read the full article here: ezer kenegdo

1. Therefore, a woman should not be looking for her glory in life, but rather for her husband’s

So by that logic a woman should not have any desires and it's all about the husband. The wife is not allowed to be happy or have any self identity.

1. She should not be looking to find her own fulfillment apart from her husband’s, but in his

See above

1. There is no such
   
   1. thing as a helpmeet – God made a helper appropriate, fit, meet, or suitable
2. for Adam. This distinction is important, so women cannot escape the obvious – be a helper!

The Holy spirit is described as a helper.

1. Remember that the woman was made for the man, not the other way around; though a man
2. may do many things for his wife, yet the primary relationship should be upheld (I Cor 11:9).

(this is from an article) Fifth, the kephale debate--in both here and in I Cor 11--suggests caution in trying to 'see' authority in this word, especially in Paul:

"Although Paul is arguing from a play on words [note: in 1 Cor 11], modern interpreters have often fastened on the single word head and debated what Paul meant when he called the husband the wife's “head.” Some scholars have argued that the term means “authority” or “boss”; the Hebrew for “head” (rosh) could mean this, and occasionally kephale means this in the Septuagint (Grudem; Fitzmyer). Other scholars have disputed this meaning, noting that the translators usually bent over backward to avoid translating the Hebrew roshwith the Greek term kephale; kephale does not normally mean “authority” or “boss” in Greek. These latter scholars often argue for the meaning “source,” which it does mean in some texts (Mickelsen in Mickelsen, 97–117; Scroggs, 284). Scholars favoring the “authority” meaning, however, respond that “source” is an even rarer meaning of kephale in the Septuagint than “authority.” Both groups of scholars are undoubtedly right in what they affirm but may fall short in what they deny; the term sometimes means “source” and sometimes means “authority,” at least in “Jewish Greek” influenced by the rhythms of the Septuagint...The question is, what sense should be attributed to the term in 1 Corinthians 11:3? Given the allusion to Adam as Eve's source in 1 Corinthians 11:8, it is very likely that Paul speaks of the man (Adam) as his wife's “source,” just as Christ had created Adam and later proceeded from the Father in his incarnation (in which case 1 Cor 11:3 is in chronological sequence; see Bilezikian, 138)

To read the whole article click here: http://christianthinktank.com/not2obey.html

1. .

​

So I wonder how men would like it if they were treated like women...

"Get back in the garage and fix my car!"

"What are you doing out of the office?"

Here's a quote:

Before this she lists all the names people call women it is extensive and mean.
"To be named means to be identified or described. When you are named 'female' it means you bear certain characteristics, belong to a certain category, have certain qualities in the context of some of the above quotes to be named female is to be rejected and trashed. "
After this she goes in to a bunch of horrific statistics. Then she goes in for the kill...she says that these statistics are from the CHURCH!! PLEASE OH PLEASE LISTEN TO THIS! ESPECIALLY THE MEN!

http://www.dianelangberg.com/work/MP3/On%20Being%20Female.mp3

 

[tribesman]

...http://www.letgodbetrue.com/pdf/role-of-the-woman.pdf

Ty for sharing. I like some of the articles by LGBT (Let God Be True) [!]...however I do not agree with their eternal justification doctrine. And a few more things.

 

[oldthennew]

Hello Mary96,

Thank you for such a thorough investigation into the role of the woman.
I am going to print it off and study it in detail.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

===============================

cwj,

we appreciate your insightfulness.....

we're planning on putting this unbelievable print-out beside the saying;

'today, is the first day of the rest of your life'....

 

[Nautilus]

I got to this lovely part

1. The Bible is plain about a wife giving due benevolence to her husband, which is lovemaking
2. he desires and needs: when, where, how, and how often he wants it; she does not have the
3. rights, claim, or authority of her own body; he has the right to her body (I Corinthians 7:1-5).
4. A man’s safety from fornication and adultery is a loving and erotic wife, which requires her
5. to show some of the strange woman’s knowledge, skill, and creativity (Pr 5:19; Heb 13:4).

When you start blaming a husbands cheating on his wife because she 'isnt fulfilling his sexual needs' is when I realized this was a load of crap. Women aren't meant to be completely submissive sex toys for their husbands like you try to present here.

 

[ember]

I got to this lovely part
[/LIST]

When you start blaming a husbands cheating on his wife because she 'isnt fulfilling his sexual needs' is when I realized this was a load of crap. Women aren't meant to be completely submissive sex toys for their husbands like you try to present here.

according to this sect women are an afterthought for men...after reading about them on their own site, I hesitate to call them a church

a loving and erotic wife...

now let's try to find out how a virgin with no knowledge of intimacy with a man would have a clue about how to be erotic

it's disgusting....this type of dribble is salacious and written by men for the pleasure of men

and I'm not a prude

 

[Nautilus]

Cult is starting to sound appropriate though.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

I'm not taking anything back zoii. Everything I said was true and appropriate. But perhaps you misunderstood what I said so go reread what you posted and then my reply to it.

My points are:

1. It is not God's will nor design for people to be immoral. And, immoral behaviors posit both negative personal and negative societal consequences. Fornication is an example of a sinful immoral behavior. People who practice such behaviors can expect negative consequences to result.

2. It is not God's will nor design for Christians to entangle themselves in romantic/marriage relationships with immoral people even if the Christian themselves is celibate.

3. Mary's post has applicability for godly people who are not practicing immorality, not entangling others in webs of abuse and manipulation, etc...

Now this doesn't mean Mary's biblical understanding is perfect with respect to the value of and roles between men and women. Honestly, it's myopic and one-dimensional in my opinion. That said, there is a lot in her post that is applicable for godly women married to godly men.

As for the website, I'm not familiar with it or the organization behind it. Never heard of it before.

 

[Blain]

Ya I never understood the whole man vs women thing even in a biblical view. Perhaps it's just the world I grew up in but to say that man is any better than woman seems wrong to me. Is it really the role of a women to be second best? to take care of the husbands needs clean the house exhaust herself and become neglected by the husband? There are many religions where the women is treated like this where she literally has no choice but to do as the husband commands and she is treated as an object not a person.

Marriage is an equal partnership not one where the man is more than the women, I do not claim to understand why the bible would say things like in the op but just because I don't understand it doesn't mean it's wrong. For example
1 Timothy 2:12 A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. 12But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. 13For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.… it is written in God's holy word and I admit I have no idea how to counter it because I lack the understanding but still I can't help but feel like something is missing here like we are not understanding what the scripture is saying.

I see this scripture but then I also see who God is, God is no respecter of person he isn't sexist he loves both man and women with all his being not one person is more important to him than the other. This is basically my issue, I see what the scripture says but still something doesn't seem quite right. Perhaps I am not looking with the right eyes idk.

 

[JFSurvivor]

Ya I never understood the whole man vs women thing even in a biblical view. Perhaps it's just the world I grew up in but to say that man is any better than woman seems wrong to me. Is it really the role of a women to be second best? to take care of the husbands needs clean the house exhaust herself and become neglected by the husband? There are many religions where the women is treated like this where she literally has no choice but to do as the husband commands and she is treated as an object not a person.

Marriage is an equal partnership not one where the man is more than the women, I do not claim to understand why the bible would say things like in the op but just because I don't understand it doesn't mean it's wrong. For example
1 Timothy 2:12 A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. 12But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. 13For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.… it is written in God's holy word and I admit I have no idea how to counter it because I lack the understanding but still I can't help but feel like something is missing here like we are not understanding what the scripture is saying.

I see this scripture but then I also see who God is, God is no respecter of person he isn't sexist he loves both man and women with all his being not one person is more important to him than the other. This is basically my issue, I see what the scripture says but still something doesn't seem quite right. Perhaps I am not looking with the right eyes idk.

You almost made me cry (Happy tears of course)!! This is EXACTLY HOW I FEEL!!! Oh I have sooo many questions for you!! Can I PM you???

 

[TwilightSparkle]

JFSurvivor,
I agree on a variety of levels with your viewpoint.
more specifically in how women are according to meand apparently you equal with men. I tend to disregard the "order of creation" because I don't really find that means anything. I say that if the women is a helper l. Then the man should be a helper as well. Any relationship needs equal say equal love and equal respect and representation. God made man and woman to be together. TOGETHER. He made them compatable. Synonyms to the definition of relationship would be: connection, relation, association, link, correlation, correspondence, parallel, alliance, bond. None of which dictate any firm of superiority. Women and men are equal and they help each other. They raise children together. Not separately. Thank you for providing your opinions

 

[Blain]

You almost made me cry (Happy tears of course)!! This is EXACTLY HOW I FEEL!!! Oh I have sooo many questions for you!! Can I PM you???

lol of course you can my pm box is always open

 

[Blain]

I am going to create a thread about the whole man vs women thing because I want to get to the core of all this. Just as i was going into the shower after I posted last about my view on this I was asking God about this and an idea sparked

 

[JFSurvivor]

I am going to create a thread about the whole man vs women thing because I want to get to the core of all this. Just as i was going into the shower after I posted last about my view on this I was asking God about this and an idea sparked

Ooooo! What was the idea! *hops up and down in anticipation*

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

We already did in the "Dangers of Feminism" thread.

... I want to get to the core of all this.

 

[Atwood]

The Role of the Woman

Good scripture. I don't know how fathers are going to provide husbands for daughters in this age.

You could add:
Some Women are great gospel publishers:
Psalm 68:11 ASV
The Lord giveth the word:
The women that publish the tidings are a great host.
12 Kings of armies flee, they flee;
And she that tarrieth at home divideth the spoil.

[This is not about elders or pastors in a church on Sunday morning.]

 

[Billyd]

JFSurvivor,
I agree on a variety of levels with your viewpoint.
more specifically in how women are according to meand apparently you equal with men. I tend to disregard the "order of creation" because I don't really find that means anything. I say that if the women is a helper l. Then the man should be a helper as well. Any relationship needs equal say equal love and equal respect and representation. God made man and woman to be together. TOGETHER. He made them compatable. Synonyms to the definition of relationship would be: connection, relation, association, link, correlation, correspondence, parallel, alliance, bond. None of which dictate any firm of superiority. Women and men are equal and they help each other. They raise children together. Not separately. Thank you for providing your opinions

Simply put. In a marriage, the husband and wife become one.

 

[skylove7]

I believe a woman should be loving, faithful, kind and supportive to her husband. But two things I feel strongly about.
1) I only bow to God
2) No man is going to force me to dress like the Grim Reaper in public. I'm sorry I'd refuse

 

[melita916]

the OP is mainly (if not, all) about the wife/mother.

what about the single woman who has no children? or... am i just in the wrong thread? lol

 

[TwilightSparkle]

Going along with jfsurvivor and Blaine,

While I don't feel like I have the core answer to the debate I feel that it needs to be stated how I find the whole debate to be a result of this broken world. We are all created beautifully and wonderfully god doesn't love anyone more or less. Be they male or female. Jfsurvivor makes it clear through scripture how since woman was made out of man we there fore are equal because they are part of of us. Literally. And similarly with Blaine how he's right. There is some understanding that needs to happen in this area so that women can be equal with men and be where God intended. And where he made them to be. Equal and along side each other in harmony