Do you throw out parts of the bible?

[Nuhen]

Originally Posted by aspen

The Catholics do not use the Book of Enoch. You are going to have to find some other reason not to read it, besides the Harlot

....good grief

*raises hand* I don't have an irrational hatred for the Catholic church. My girlfriend is Catholic :P

[DinoDillinger]

Originally Posted by Nuhen

I haven't reached a conclusion on the Apocrypha yet, but I'm still studying it.

Also, I've never attacked someone on this site. I think you've misinterpreted me. I am here only to make people think, and to learn from you just as I hope you can learn from me.

As to why I reject Paul's writings as inspired, it was only after much prayer and study that I felt led by G-d to reject Paul's writings as inspired. Not to reject them completely, as many non-Scriptural writings can be beneficial to a believer's walk with G-d, including Paul's writings, but to reject them as Scripture.

You misinterpret what I meant by attack, I meant, not as in a personal attack, but an assault on people's faith, and the foundation thereof. Drawing sheep away from God's righteousness to set up their own by works of the law of Moses. You (whether knowly or not) attempt to convince people to make void the blood of the Lamb of God by attaining the righteousness that comes from the law. Jesus did not command that we go out and circumsize the nations but baptize, physical circumsion being a sign of the covenant of the law given by Moses. Beware the leaven of the pharisees. Seek not knowledge from men (ie. the internet) but from the giver of truth, that being the Most High.

Just wondering, do you accept Acts as scripture? If you don't I would suppose that you also don't accept the Gospel of Luke.

[Nuhen]

Originally Posted by DinoDillinger

You misinterpret what I meant by attack, I meant, not as in a personal attack, but an assault on people's faith, and the foundation thereof. Drawing sheep away from God's righteousness to set up their own by works of the law of Moses. You (whether knowly or not) attempt to convince people to make void the blood of the Lamb of God by attaining the righteousness that comes from the law. Jesus did not command that we go out and circumsize the nations but baptize, physical circumsion being a sign of the covenant of the law given by Moses. Beware the leaven of the pharisees. Seek not knowledge from men (ie. the internet) but from the giver of truth, that being the Most High.

All of this untrue. I and those who believe as I do have expressed time and time and time again that we are NOT trying to say that following Torah makes you righteous before G-d (even though Yeshua says that it is part of the process), nor are we saying you HAVE to follow it.

Furthermore, I haven't assaulted anyone's faith on this site. I've merely expressed mine, just as you all have expressed yours. The truth need not fear a lie, so if what all of you believe is true, you shouldn't have a problem with me and those who believe as I do because if what we believe really is so wrong and yours are so right, yours will win out in the end.

If what you believe is true, you shouldn't have to worry about us. Yet, you obviously do, so what does that say about what you believe?

Just wondering, do you accept Acts as scripture? If you don't I would suppose that you also don't accept the Gospel of Luke.

Acts is a history book. Whether or not I accept it as scripture has no bearing on my acceptance of Luke, because it's not about the author, it's about the content of their writings.

[aspen]

Not anymore - I am now Roman Catholic.

[Stuey]

Originally Posted by Nuhen

They are called minor prophets by men, not by G-d. And anyway, they are "minor" prophets because their writings are much shorter than those of the "major" prophets. As to Job/Ecclesiastes vs. Ezekiel/Jeremiah, that's personal opinion and has no affect on the Word.

And the irony about you constantly pointing out the fact that I reject 3/4 of the NT as inspired (I do NOT ignore it, I've said a thousand times that Paul's writings have good lessons to learn from, I just reject them as Scripture) is that you ignore 3/4 (it's actually a lot larger than that, I just don't know the exact ratio) of the entire BIBLE. I just don't believe 3/4 of 1/4 (emphasis) of the bible is inspired.

Honestly... this is nonsense, you are basing what is god inspired on your own personal opinion, do you consider yourself more wise than the early christians? Than the christians at the council of nicae? Than the preachers who led the reformation? (Scipture side... not war side) Then the Rabbi's who consider scriptures such as Job and Ecclessiastes as inspired?

All scripture is god breathed, we can't just pick and choose what we like out of it based on our own personal opinions, I've seen people do this on many, many topics and unfortunately there are a lot who do this.

[greatkraw]

there are zero copies of the apocrypha in HEBREW

[Nuhen]

Originally Posted by Stuey

Honestly... this is nonsense, you are basing what is god inspired on your own personal opinion, do you consider yourself more wise than the early christians? Than the christians at the council of nicae? Than the preachers who led the reformation? (Scipture side... not war side) Then the Rabbi's who consider scriptures such as Job and Ecclessiastes as inspired?

All men with agendas of their own.

All scripture is god breathed, we can't just pick and choose what we like out of it based on our own personal opinions, I've seen people do this on many, many topics and unfortunately there are a lot who do this.

I agree completely. But when someone's writings contradict Scripture, it's common sense that those writings CAN'T be considered Scripture. G-d does not contradict himself.

And EVERYONE picks and chooses out of Scripture. Don't act like you don't, because we all do.

[Nuhen]

Originally Posted by greatkraw

there are zero copies of the apocrypha in HEBREW

And your point is?

[greatkraw]

the apocrypha talks about things before Christ
it represents things that must once have been in Hebrew but were not thought valuable enough to preserve
we only have it at all because it was included in the Septuagint which was translated to greek from HEBREW

[Nuhen]

Originally Posted by greatkraw

the apocrypha talks about things before Christ
it represents things that must once have been in Hebrew but were not thought valuable enough to preserve
we only have it at all because it was included in the Septuagint which was translated to greek from HEBREW

Right. That's pretty much accurate. Random, but accurate.

[Stuey]

Originally Posted by Nuhen

All men with agendas of their own.



I agree completely. But when someone's writings contradict Scripture, it's common sense that those writings CAN'T be considered Scripture. G-d does not contradict himself.

And EVERYONE picks and chooses out of Scripture. Don't act like you don't, because we all do.

So the Apostles had agendas of their own?... It's pretty clear their main agenda was preaching the gospel. What do you mean by everyone picks and chooses out of scipture? They may emphasise some parts more than others, but there are many people that are honestly looking for the true meaning of gods word, rather than interpreting it to fit our own desires. Although if your saying that all people sometimes interpret it to the suit themselves...t hen yeah your probably right.

[MahogonySnail]

They are called minor prophets by men, not by G-d. And anyway, they are "minor" prophets because their writings are much shorter than those of the "major" prophets. As to Job/Ecclesiastes vs. Ezekiel/Jeremiah, that's personal opinion and has no affect on the Word.

And the irony about you constantly pointing out the fact that I reject 3/4 of the NT as inspired (I do NOT ignore it, I've said a thousand times that Paul's writings have good lessons to learn from, I just reject them as Scripture) is that you ignore 3/4 (it's actually a lot larger than that, I just don't know the exact ratio) of the entire BIBLE. I just don't believe 3/4 of 1/4 (emphasis) of the bible is inspired.

Shorter writings. Exactly. So they are less valuable than a writing which is twice as long. Most quotations that Jesus used did not come from the minor prophets but from proverbs, the psalms, and the major prophets. I believe the whole 100% is inspired and is scripture. You don't believe in the apostle Paul was inspired which is a big chunk of the New Testament. Unlike you I also know which bits are for me to follow and which aren't, because I'm smart .

[Nuhen]

Originally Posted by Stuey

So the Apostles had agendas of their own?... It's pretty clear their main agenda was preaching the gospel. What do you mean by everyone picks and chooses out of scipture? They may emphasise some parts more than others, but there are many people that are honestly looking for the true meaning of gods word, rather than interpreting it to fit our own desires. Although if your saying that all people sometimes interpret it to the suit themselves...t hen yeah your probably right.

Not the apostles, but the men who canonized the bible.

As for picking and choosing, interpreting it to fit your own agenda is the same thing. And before you say you don't pick and choose scripture, do you follow the Tanakh (read: old testament)?

[Stuey]

Originally Posted by Nuhen

Not the apostles, but the men who canonized the bible.

As for picking and choosing, interpreting it to fit your own agenda is the same thing. And before you say you don't pick and choose scripture, do you follow the Tanakh (read: old testament)?

I have read most of the old testament yes. I am presuming you are referring to following the law?

Picking and choosing scripture has nothing to do with following the law or not following the law. Christ is the fullfilment of the law, thus all the rules and regulations are not needed to be followed, where is the nt quote, from paul i think that says 'if someone allows him to be circumcised, then christ is of no value to him'

I would follow the law, if the scripture commanded me to, however it doesn't as jesus is the fulfilment of it.

Or are you referring to other parts of the old testament?

[Nuhen]

Originally Posted by Stuey

I have read most of the old testament yes. I am presuming you are referring to following the law?

Picking and choosing scripture has nothing to do with following the law or not following the law. Christ is the fullfilment of the law, thus all the rules and regulations are not needed to be followed, where is the nt quote, from paul i think that says 'if someone allows him to be circumcised, then christ is of no value to him'

I would follow the law, if the scripture commanded me to, however it doesn't as jesus is the fulfilment of it.

Or are you referring to other parts of the old testament?

I said old testament. That means the whole thing. You cannot honestly say you do not pick and choose Scripture and yet not follow the old testament. That's called picking and choosing

Originally Posted by Stuey

where is the nt quote, from paul i think that says 'if someone allows him to be circumcised, then christ is of no value to him'

Galatians 5:2-4:

Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

[Nuhen]

Originally Posted by karuna

Galatians 5:2-4:

Thank you, Karuna. This is a perfect example of Paul contradicting the words of Yeshua himself.

[Stuey]

Originally Posted by Nuhen

Thank you, Karuna. This is a perfect example of Paul contradicting the words of Yeshua himself.

And where is the quote you are talking about?

"I come not to remove one part of the law" somethingn like that?

That is because he Is the fulfillment of the law, he has not erased the law, simply written what the intention of it was in our hearts.

Did Jesus follow the law to the letter? No... he picked wheat on the sabath, it is not the tiny rules and regulations that the law was designed for, it was gods purpose and will behind it. - The greatest two commandements, love the lord with all your heart, mind and soul and love your neighbour as yourself. These sum up the Entire old testament.

[Nuhen]

Originally Posted by Stuey

And where is the quote you are talking about?

"I come not to remove one part of the law" somethingn like that?

That is because he Is the fulfillment of the law, he has not erased the law, simply written what the intention of it was in our hearts.

Read on. It doesn't stop there, he continues:

So whoever disobeys the least of these mitzvot and teaches others to do so will be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But whoever obeys them and so teaches will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.

That's Matthew 5:19.

Did Jesus follow the law to the letter? No... he picked wheat on the sabath

Yes, yes, yes, Yeshua's most misinterpreted action. He picked wheat on the shabbat to feed those who were hungry. That's an act of charity, a work of G-d, and is not forbidden on the shabbat. The work forbidden on the shabbat was work for MEN, going out to your job as you do on any other day.

Yeshua did not break the shabbat.

[MahogonySnail]

Jesus failed to stone the woman caught in adultery. Oops he broke the Law again. How many people have you stoned? The law is not erased remember, and not one jot . But I've yet to know of anyone who actually stones people.