Do you throw out parts of the bible?

[Nuhen]

Originally Posted by MahogonySnail

Jesus failed to stone the woman caught in adultery. Oops he broke the Law again. How many people have you stoned? The law is not erased remember, and not one jot . But I've yet to know of anyone who actually stones people.

I've said this before, but it was in a different thread so I'll say it again here: the punishments were not part of the law.

[MahogonySnail]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoning..._prescriptions

In historical times, the laws for stoning in Judaism dictated that two reputable people must have witnessed the offense (and must witness the stoning). Stoning in Judaism has long been abolished.[citation needed]
[edit] Torah




The Torah of the Jews, which is contained in the Old Testament of the Bible and as such serves as a common religious reference, prescribes death by stoning for a series of offenses, namely:

• Touching Mount Sinai while God was giving Moses the Ten Commandments (Exodus 19:13)
• An ox that gores someone to death should be stoned (Exodus 21:28)
• Breaking the Shabbat (Numbers 15:32-36)
• Giving one's "seed" (presumably one's offspring) "to Moloch a form of human sacrifice" (Leviticus 20:2-5)
• Having a "familiar spirit" (or being a necromancer) or being a "wizard" (Lev. 20:27)
• Cursing God (Lev. 24:10-16)
• Engaging in idolatry (Deuteronomy 17:2-7) or seducing others to do so (Deut. 13:7-12)
• "Rebellion" against parents in a disgusting way (Deut. 21,21)
• Sexual intercourse between a man and a woman engaged to another man (both should be stoned, Deut. 22:23-24), unless in case of rape.

So who gave the command to abolish stoning in Judaism? and secondly it seems like an easy law to follow, and some extremist Jews in Israel don't seem to have a problem with giving death threats to Christian converts... so I'm wondering why you're so disobedient on these commands, which you say have not passed away, and were observed by Christ. Clearly, Christ never stoned anyone, in direct contradiction to the verses in the old testament listed above. If I'm not mistaken, they are ALL Torah. If they haven't passed away, then why do you, and Jews think they are abolished?

[Nuhen]

The first five books of Moses are commonly referred to as the Torah, but more specifically it refers to 613 commandments within, the list of which you can find here: http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Art...ag/taryag.html

None of those list the punishments - those were civil laws.

[MahogonySnail]

Just scroll down to the part where it says "let me list a few more difficult commandments in the Torah of Moses.

"Judged shall put to death the rebellious son". how about that one?

"you shall put to death anyone who kidnaps or curses a parent" ?

"You must put someone to death for working on the Sabbath".

"you should put to death a rebellious child".

"you must pay for and marry a virgin you seduced".

Yes I hope all those good little observant Jews or Messianc Jews are marrying their first sexual partners.

They're part of Torah are they not? So perhaps you should change your stance that we are to follow say, 80% of Torah?

After arguing for a strict observance to the letter of Torah, and that none of it shall pass away, I find that the author of that website, then downplays the importance of these laws, and then refers to their moral meaning!!

I see the picture now. After going to great lengths to explain to us protestant new-testament Paulinians , about the importance of the laws, and how not one of them shall pass away, and whoever disobeys the least shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven, you yourself follow which ones you think are easy enough to keep, you ignore the others that are too hard, and triviliase them away appealing to their so-called "moral" meaning. Are you sure you aren't like one of us protestant christians afterall, the difference being, we both just choose different laws to ignore or follow?

[Nuhen]

Originally Posted by MahogonySnail

Just scroll down to the part where it says "let me list a few more difficult commandments in the Torah of Moses.

"Judged shall put to death the rebellious son". how about that one?

"you shall put to death anyone who kidnaps or curses a parent" ?

"You must put someone to death for working on the Sabbath".

"you should put to death a rebellious child".

"you must pay for and marry a virgin you seduced".


They're part of Torah are they not? So perhaps you should change your stance that we are to follow say, 80% of Torah?

No, I still say 100%.

[MahogonySnail]

You say 100%, but practice less than that. So.. I guess you don't take the words of Christ about hypocrisy seriously ? Or perhaps you keep maybe 60%, and Christ's blood covers the remaining 40% you can't keep. Of course, for you, only 40% of Christ died on the cross , keep trying harder. Meaning ,there's no difference between you and a christian who might follow 20% and Christ covers the remaining 80%. Which is why I can eat pork without a guilty conscience, and you can't. And we both can avoid stoning people, without feeling guilty that we are breaking the Torah, so as far as "keeping" the Law goes, we have that in common.

[greatkraw]

Originally Posted by MahogonySnail

You say 100%, but practice less than that. So.. I guess you don't take the words of Christ about hypocrisy seriously ? Or perhaps you keep maybe 60%, and Christ's blood covers the remaining 40% you can't keep. Of course, for you, only 40% of Christ died on the cross , keep trying harder. Meaning ,there's no difference between you and a christian who might follow 20% and Christ covers the remaining 80%. Which is why I can eat pork without a guilty conscience, and you can't. And we both can avoid stoning people, without feeling guilty that we are breaking the Torah, so as far as "keeping" the Law goes, we have that in common.

dont hassle him dude

he is making plans to go up to Jerusalem to sacrifice at the temple

[MahogonySnail]

As long as he doesn't travel by airplane on the sabbath, should be ok.

[Nuhen]

Originally Posted by MahogonySnail

You say 100%, but practice less than that. So.. I guess you don't take the words of Christ about hypocrisy seriously ? Or perhaps you keep maybe 60%, and Christ's blood covers the remaining 40% you can't keep. Of course, for you, only 40% of Christ died on the cross , keep trying harder. Meaning ,there's no difference between you and a christian who might follow 20% and Christ covers the remaining 80%. Which is why I can eat pork without a guilty conscience, and you can't. And we both can avoid stoning people, without feeling guilty that we are breaking the Torah, so as far as "keeping" the Law goes, we have that in common.

Look, the point wasn't STONING, it was PUNISHMENT. As times change, so do the punishments. We don't stone people anymore, we have different ways of punishing disobedient children and etc.

You've made it clear you don't care to follow the Torah and you scorn and ridicule those of us who do, so I suggest you just don't even worry your pretty little head over it and leave it to those of us who care.

[Nuhen]

Originally Posted by greatkraw

dont hassle him dude

he is making plans to go up to Jerusalem to sacrifice at the temple

I might do that just to spite you.

Keep up the ridicule, really shows Christ's love.

[MahogonySnail]

Look, the point wasn't STONING, it was PUNISHMENT. As times change, so do the punishments. We don't stone people anymore, we have different ways of punishing disobedient children and etc.

Punishment by death. Are there different ways to die? OHhh it must mean die in a moral sense. "die" ( quotaton marks to emphasise it doesn't really mean die die, just die in a figurative sense) . Half die? 3/4 die? Maybe die a little bit? I hope you've married all those virgins you've slept with. Just remember the law has not passed away and not one little jot or tittle, and whoever disobeys the least of the laws will be least in the kingdom of heaven. So, good luck with that.

You've made it clear you don't care to follow the Torah and you scorn and ridicule those of us who do, so I suggest you just don't even worry your pretty little head over it and leave it to those of us who care.

Well I think it's a little bit hypocritical of you to be telling us to follow Torah when you don't follow all of it yourself. You're caring about following 100% when you've never made 100% in your life. So whats the difference between me who might follow 10% and you who follows 60%? In God's eyes, NOTHING. Both fall short of the mark, both need Christ. So I'll have my pork, and eat it too . If you want to refrain from pork that's perfectly ok too. But I don't need some religious hypocritical know it all like yourself telling me how to live my walk with God or what constitutes scripture.

[loeza89]

No i do not throw anything out if it doesnt match up or make sense i keep reading that part over and over until i get it or i think i get it lol XD

[Nuhen]

Originally Posted by MahogonySnail

Punishment by death. Are there different ways to die? OHhh it must mean die in a moral sense. "die" ( quotaton marks to emphasise it doesn't really mean die die, just die in a figurative sense) . Half die? 3/4 die? Maybe die a little bit? I hope you've married all those virgins you've slept with. Just remember the law has not passed away and not one little jot or tittle, and whoever disobeys the least of the laws will be least in the kingdom of heaven. So, good luck with that.

Again: as times change, so do punishments. We don't kill rebellious children to punish them anymore. Those laws weren't about the TYPE of punishment, they were laws to PUNISH certain types of behavior.

YOU are the only one here suggesting those laws passed away.

[MahogonySnail]

That's right, at least we have a good reason for not keeping them. In contrast to those who say they are still in force and we must keep them 100%, but ignore many of them anyway. It seems pretty obvious to me "you must put to death".. it doesnt say "you must punish". So why is it ok for you to disobey that command and change its meaning to a moral one, but not ok for a christian to attribute a spiritual meaning to the sabbath for example, rather than a literal keeping of it?

[Nuhen]

Originally Posted by MahogonySnail

That's right, at least we have a good reason for not keeping them. In contrast to those who say they are still in force and we must keep them 100%, but ignore many of them anyway. It seems pretty obvious to me "you must put to death".. it doesnt say "you must punish". So why is it ok for you to disobey that command and change its meaning to a moral one, but not ok for a christian to attribute a spiritual meaning to the sabbath for example, rather than a literal keeping of it?

The punishments of the day were to put to death the people committing those offenses, so G-d said "put them to death". As times change, so do our punishments. We're supposed to continue observing His commands, but not in the same way they did in those days.

Furthermore, the point of Torah observance was never to follow 100% of it. That's YOUR saying, not mine. The point is to TRY. Put some gorram effort into obeying the One who gave up His own Son for you. Seems like a small task for such a great gift.

We CAN'T follow 100% of it 100% of the time because it is impossible. But that doesn't mean we stop trying. THAT is the point.

[Kakashi]

There is a point where it takes some wisdom to know when to just walk away when two parties disagree and cannot be reconciled to agree. Further talks (especially on the internet) are unfruitful in that situation. I'd say nows that time.

[loveschild]

Its all important. If we only looked at the red letters that would be part of the taking out of the word and bad news to the person. I don't know why people want to keep following the old rules when Jesus died for us and gave us new rules. Theres a lot of bad stuff going on in the churches and people need to read their bibles. The demons are hiding in the teachers. This not a game.

Everybody throws out parts of the Bible. We like to explain away or justify our failure to keep the commands of God. Idk, maybe it makes us feel better about ourselves. I mean, if we don't HAVE to follow the commands of God, there's no guilt attached when we don't. So we pick and choose which commands we like and which ones we don't.

[Nuhen]

Originally Posted by loveschild

I don't know why people want to keep following the old rules

Because, old or not, they're part of the Word of G-d and there's nothing wrong with following them?

Originally Posted by Nuhen

Because, old or not, they're part of the Word of G-d and there's nothing wrong with following them?

Oh, but haven't you heard? If you follow the 'old rules' you're rejecting Christ's sacrifice. *eye roll*