Was Jesus Lord on earth during his Incarnation?

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T

TOKNOWGOD

Guest
#1
What does it mean that Jesus emptied himself or had no reputation? What are the implications to this emptying? Was he Lord on earth as man;he was Lord as the Word ? If he was, then this would mean that there would be no need for his exaltation when the redemptive work was done? This is really interesting? What are your thoughts on it?
[h=1]Philippians 2:7-9King James Version (KJV)[/h]5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
 
Apr 11, 2015
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#2
What does it mean that Jesus emptied himself or had no reputation? What are the implications to this emptying? Was he Lord on earth as man;he was Lord as the Word ? If he was, then this would mean that there would be no need for his exaltation when the redemptive work was done? This is really interesting? What are your thoughts on it?
Philippians 2:7-9King James Version (KJV)

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

my kingdom is not of this earth but I am a king he said - wincam
 
Mar 10, 2015
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#3
What does it mean that Jesus emptied himself or had no reputation? What are the implications to this emptying? Was he Lord on earth as man;he was Lord as the Word ? If he was, then this would mean that there would be no need for his exaltation when the redemptive work was done? This is really interesting? What are your thoughts on it?
Philippians 2:7-9King James Version (KJV)

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
It means he laid aside his divine God powers to be obedient to the cross.

Jesus did what he did on earth, not because of his divine God powers, he did what he did, because was anointed with power and the Holy Spirit[Acts 10.38]If Jesus did the miracles and everything else with his divine power, then it would make God a non just God.

This statment should not be confused with me stating Jesus had a sin nature, because he did not have a sin nature. I am stating he did not do the miracles, nor preach or teach, with his divine powers. He laid those down, took up the form of servant and was made a man.

This wont go far with some folks, but if you can get a hol dof this, you will see why he was our blue print for living down here, because he did nothing with his divine powers, he did it because he was full of grace and truth and was anointed with power and the Holy Spirit.

Some will state this is wrong and it refers to him being woe and poe and all about humility.

It is about humility, because humility is nothing more than your power and wants yielded to the will of the Father, but it also means he laid down his God powers.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
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#4
What does it mean that Jesus emptied himself or had no reputation? What are the implications to this emptying? Was he Lord on earth as man;

Yes.

he was Lord as the Word ? If he was, then this would mean that there would be no need for his exaltation when the redemptive work was done? This is really interesting? What are your thoughts on it?
Philippians 2:7-9King James Version (KJV)

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
He returned to the glory he already had before he came.
 
T

TOKNOWGOD

Guest
#5
Thanks for the input u guys

i see your point Elin

What's your view on this Joshua_Generation - Did Jesus lay down his lordship as a man?

 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
#7
Jesus is the Lord. Jesus was the Lord, before there was a world. God is God. Maybe I'm missing something, but is it perhaps a valid viewpoint that not every word in scripture should be made a complicated muck of? It's like a thread I was just looking at, theories of atonement. Atonement is atonement. Maybe I'm dense, but I don't see what's there that needs contortion and complication. The simple gospel, itself, which people hardly agree on, ironically, is wonderful clarity, in all its simplicity. Is it perhaps all the argumentative confusion that's false?
 
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Mar 10, 2015
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#8
Jesus is the Lord. Jesus was the Lord, before there was a world. God is God. Maybe I'm missing something, but is it perhaps a valid viewpoint that not every word in scripture should be made a complicated muck of? It's like a thread I was just looking at, theories of atonement. Atonement is atonement. Maybe I'm dense, but I don't see what's there that needs contortion and complication. The simple gospel, itself, which people hardly agree on, ironically, is wonderful clarity, in all its simplicity. Is it perhaps all the argumentative confusion that's false?
Did Jesus heal people and destroy the works of the devil because he was God or because he was anointed with power and the Holy Spirit?
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#9
Did the thief on the cross acknowledge Jesus as Lord before his death, burial and resurrection? Did not the disciples call Jesus Lord? Did Jesus rebuke some for calling him Lord and not doing what he said to do?
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
#10
Did Jesus heal people and destroy the works of the devil because he was God or because he was anointed with power and the Holy Spirit?
Jesus is God. Incarnate, He was God from eternity, come down to man, of the Holy Spirit without measure. I don't see what rocket science is involved in some simple facts, that deity of the Lord abundantly clear in the opening verses of John, really have no idea what you're talking about, this "because He was God" or thus-and-such thing you've got going on?
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
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#11
I do not see how he was Lord when Phil 2.6-7 says he laid that down and became a bond servant.
However, he said that
he had power to conquer Satan (Jn 12:31; Lk 10:18; Mk :;23-26, 5:6-13),
he had power to forgive sin (Mt 9:2-6),
he possessed all power in heaven and earth (Mt 26:64, 28:18; Lk 1022; Jn 13:3, 13),
he was to be honored as the Father is honored (Jn 5:23),
he sent with power and authority as the Father did (Jn 20:21),
he conferred the kingdom as the Father did (Lk 22:29),
he had life in himself as the Father did (Jn 5:26),
he gave life as the Father did (Jn 5:21),
he was the source of all truth and life (Jn 1:4, 5:25-26, 6:39-40).

He is saying he is equal with God.

Would that not make him Lord?
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
#12
However, he said that
he had power to conquer Satan (Jn 12:31; Lk 10:18; Mk :;23-26, 5:6-13),
he had power to forgive sin (Mt 9:2-6),
he possessed all power in heaven and earth (Mt 26:64, 28:18; Lk 1022; Jn 13:3, 13),
he was to be honored as the Father is honored (Jn 5:23),
he sent with power and authority as the Father did (Jn 20:21),
he conferred the kingdom as the Father did (Lk 22:29),
he had life in himself as the Father did (Jn 5:26),
he gave life as the Father did (Jn 5:21),
he was the source of all truth and life (Jn 1:4, 5:25-26, 6:39-40).

He is saying he is equal with God.

Would that not make him Lord?
Besides, scripture clearly states that Jesus is the Lord, out the wazoo, I mean, duh? Are the grand debates around here scraping the bottom of the barrel? What next, how many letters are there really in the name Jesus?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,704
3,649
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#13
Jesus voluntarily laid aside the prerogative to use His Divine nature and submitted Himself entirely to the Father's will all the while remaining God. At times the Father allowed Jesus to exercise Divine power but Jesus never did it on His own.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#14
What does it mean that Jesus emptied himself or had no reputation? What are the implications to this emptying? Was he Lord on earth as man;he was Lord as the Word ? If he was, then this would mean that there would be no need for his exaltation when the redemptive work was done? This is really interesting? What are your thoughts on it?
Philippians 2:7-9King James Version (KJV)

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
As for the Kenosis: Check out this thread here:

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/98727-kenosis-philippians-2-6-9-a.html#post2103963

Hope this helps.
And may God bless you.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#15
As for whether Jesus Christ was Lord while on the Earth? Well, that would be a "yes" and a "no" type answer. It would be a "Yes" because Jesus is Lord of all of the Universe and He could dispell all the molecules in the Universe if He so desired. It would be a "No." because the Lord let partial control of this world fall under the rule of the devil when Adam sinned. This world is currently under the sway of the devil. Granted, Satan cannot go beyond what God allows. So God is still in ultimate control, but the world is not fully declared as God's Kingdom yet. Jesus said, "my Kingdom is not of this world." So Jesus is a King! He is just a ruling King now in Heaven. One day Christ will return and destroy all the evil nations of this world (that will come up against Him) and He will set up a Millennial reign under His rule (And of His Kingdom rule there will be no end). For when Jesus came to this Earth so as to die on the cross for our sins, many had tried to make him a king, but he refused. But despite all that, Jesus is still King! To Him, (even though He has not taken back this world yet), this world is still already His in an Eternal way (Because He can see into the future in perfect detail). The Victory has been won. The Battle is over. Jesus is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords and every knee will bow before Him and confess that Jesus is Lord. For Jesus knows that He will take back this world and win!
 
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Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#16
Elin said:
However, he said that
he had power to conquer Satan (Jn 12:31; Lk 10:18; Mk :;23-26, 5:6-13),
he had power to forgive sin (Mt 9:2-6),
he possessed all power in heaven and earth (Mt 26:64, 28:18; Lk 1022; Jn 13:3, 13),
he was to be honored as the Father is honored (Jn 5:23),
he sent with power and authority as the Father did (Jn 20:21),
he conferred the kingdom as the Father did (Lk 22:29),
he had life in himself as the Father did (Jn 5:26),
he gave life as the Father did (Jn 5:21),
he was the source of all truth and life (Jn 1:4, 5:25-26, 6:39-40).

He is saying he is equal with God.

Would that not make him Lord
?
Besides, scripture clearly states that Jesus is the Lord, out the wazoo, I mean, duh? Are the grand debates around here scraping the bottom of the barrel? What next, how many letters are there really in the name Jesus?
The kenosis theory does not hold. . .it is simply speculation with no textual support.

Jesus "emptying" himself and becoming poor is the laying aside of his divine glory and dignity--"the glory which I had with thee before the world was" (Jn 17:5)", not laying aside his divine powers and attributes.
There is no Biblical support for the Son shedding any aspects of his diety. . .rather quite the contrary, as I've shown above.

Kenosis raises a few problems:
the man Jesus could not be fully God if he lacked some of the qualities of deity,
he could not perfectly reveal the Father if some of the Father's powers and attributes were not in him,
if true manhood was incompatible with full deity on earth, then it must be the same in heaven and, therefore, the Son has lost some of his divine powers for all eternity.

But we know the risen Christ has not lost any omnipotence, omnipresence and omniscience (Mt 28:18, 20: Jn 21:17; Eph 4:10). So there is no reason why he did not have them on earth.
 
Dec 1, 2014
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#17
Agreed...Confusion only comes from one source. God's simplicity eludes mankind for some reason. We get all bent out of shape on interpretations, etc. That's why I have to ask the holy spirit to intervene and help me understand the BIBLE when I read it so that I can apply it to my life.
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
2,987
1,014
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New Zealand
#18
Yeah it doesn't make a lot of sense for Jesus to be God at one stage.. and then not at others. That would kind of be schizophrenic if you know what I mean.

This question came up in Lee Strobel's famous book The Case for Christ.

The best response that was given to Lee Strobel was along the lines of 'self limiting'..

Not that He was no longer God or no longer had any of the attributes but that He was using His own power to limit what He was doing for a time.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#19
did Jesus not refer to himself as the son? did he not instruct people to direct their prayers to the Father, not to him? didnt the Father say he was sending someone, his servant, a great teacher, he never said He the Almighty Himself would be coming.
The Almighty said that his Son would have His (Father) authority and to rebel against him was to rebel against the Father.
one is the Father and one is the Son. i think there is a difference.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,704
3,649
113
#20
Yeah it doesn't make a lot of sense for Jesus to be God at one stage.. and then not at others. That would kind of be schizophrenic if you know what I mean.

This question came up in Lee Strobel's famous book The Case for Christ.

The best response that was given to Lee Strobel was along the lines of 'self limiting'..

Not that He was no longer God or no longer had any of the attributes but that He was using His own power to limit what He was doing for a time.
Sure, He made Himself wholly dependent and obedient to the Father, all the while remaining fully God.