The moment when jesus died many dead people came back to life

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R

Rudimental

Guest
#1
#1
A lot of people don't actually know about this, this part of scripture is often overlooked.

Matthew 27:52 KJV. And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

Matthew 27:53. And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

The graves were opened, and many bodies of saints which slept, arose. To whom they appeared, in what manner, and how they disappeared again, we are not told; and we must not desire to be wise above what is written.

I was reading about this online and found this written "The Ante-Nicene Library is a collection of manuscripts written by important Christians from the time of Jesus Christ to the Council of Nicea (325 AD). These manuscripts were not included in the Christian Bible, so they are non-canonical. Within this library are numerous writings about how Jesus descended into Hades while His body lay in the tomb, and that numerous saints (one report 12,000) rose from the dead with Jesus on Easter Sunday. These reportedly remained on earth for the 40 days Jesus remained after having risen and ascended into Heaven with Jesus. There are many reports of these risen saints having been seen in Jerusalem after Easter Sunday."

The apostle Matthew confirmed this when he wrote: "and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many." Matthew 27:52-53.

My question is. Were those saints that came alive again during the moment of Christ's death, called up into heaven after the 40 days or did they die again? Only to be resurrected on the last day again?
 
V

valiant

Senior Member
#2
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
63
#2
Rudimental said:
A lot of people don't actually know about this, this part of scripture is often overlooked.

Matthew 27:52 KJV. And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

Matthew 27:53. And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

The graves were opened, and many bodies of saints which slept, arose. To whom they appeared, in what manner, and how they disappeared again, we are not told; and we must not desire to be wise above what is written.

I was reading about this online and found this written "The Ante-Nicene Library is a collection of manuscripts written by important Christians from the time of Jesus Christ to the Council of Nicea (325 AD). These manuscripts were not included in the Christian Bible, so they are non-canonical. Within this library are numerous writings about how Jesus descended into Hades while His body lay in the tomb, and that numerous saints (one report 12,000) rose from the dead with Jesus on Easter Sunday. These reportedly remained on earth for the 40 days Jesus remained after having risen and ascended into Heaven with Jesus. There are many reports of these risen saints having been seen in Jerusalem after Easter Sunday."

The apostle Matthew confirmed this when he wrote: "and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many." Matthew 27:52-53.

My question is. Were those saints that came alive again during the moment of Christ's death, called up into heaven after the 40 days or did they die again? Only to be resurrected on the last day again?
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LOL you may get many answers but no one really knows. All you will get is theories.

For what its worth mine is that having been raised from the dead, and their graves having been opened (as with Jesus Himself), and having revealed themselves to people in Jerusalem for a short length of time (as with Jesus), they ascended with Christ into Heaven, the firstfruits of those who sleep.
 
R

Rudimental

Guest
#3
#3
valiant said:
LOL you may get many answers but no one really knows. All you will get is theories.

For what its worth mine is that having been raised from the dead, and their graves having been opened (as with Jesus Himself), and having revealed themselves to people in Jerusalem for a short length of time, they ascended with Christ into Heaven, the firstfruits of those who sleep.
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Right. But what about 1 Corinthians 2:9? that says But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

Is this a contradiction? Or are they in a different part of heaven and wont get to enter the heaven that God has created (prepared) for us until the return of the Lord?
 
J

Jeff_56

Banned
#4
Dec 26, 2014
3,757
19
0
#4
like lazarus, they also did not have gloried bodies (only physically restored bodies) when they came out of the grave.
their resurrection was somehow different than Yahshua who was raised to never die again.
 
A

atwhatcost

Guest
#5
#5
Rudimental said:
A lot of people don't actually know about this, this part of scripture is often overlooked.

Matthew 27:52 KJV. And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

Matthew 27:53. And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

The graves were opened, and many bodies of saints which slept, arose. To whom they appeared, in what manner, and how they disappeared again, we are not told; and we must not desire to be wise above what is written.

I was reading about this online and found this written "The Ante-Nicene Library is a collection of manuscripts written by important Christians from the time of Jesus Christ to the Council of Nicea (325 AD). These manuscripts were not included in the Christian Bible, so they are non-canonical. Within this library are numerous writings about how Jesus descended into Hades while His body lay in the tomb, and that numerous saints (one report 12,000) rose from the dead with Jesus on Easter Sunday. These reportedly remained on earth for the 40 days Jesus remained after having risen and ascended into Heaven with Jesus. There are many reports of these risen saints having been seen in Jerusalem after Easter Sunday."

The apostle Matthew confirmed this when he wrote: "and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many." Matthew 27:52-53.

My question is. Were those saints that came alive again during the moment of Christ's death, called up into heaven after the 40 days or did they die again? Only to be resurrected on the last day again?
Click to expand...
It's hard to tell. The reason for the Council of Nicaea was that Christians were finally able to come out from hiding. (They were decreed to be killed centuries earlier, so they hid in catacombs and just about everywhere to avoid that.) If they were found, they'd be killed. So, while they were in hiding, they also hid their important papers and books. The extremely important writing was hidden in the absolute best hiding spot, but they hid other papers they thought were important in a less secure spot. That way, if they were found, it was likely the people seeking to kill them would find some papers and destroy them, but they wouldn't keep searching for more papers, because they would think that was the important-papers stash.

In reality the less-than-critical papers often included what we call the Apocrypha -- those books not of the OT nor NT. So they did mean something to the paper-savers. (They weren't hiding menus to their favorite pizza parlor or even the latest newspaper from Rome. They had to be ready to move in a moment, so they weren't hoarding extras. lol) They also included the fake gospels (Gospel of Thomas, Gospel of Mary Madeleine, Gospel of Jesus, etc.), which were something like tabloid articles getting mixed in with solid journalism. And the truly important papers that were hidden in the most secure locations ended up being the same papers throughout all the region of tribulation. So, when the tribulation ended, it was time to figure out which papers were truly inspired and which were scams made to promote some foreign concept into the church. That's what the Council of Nicaea was convened to do. And they did.

Imagine every real Christian today having to go into hiding for the next 300 years. We won't be able to contact each other easily, and even if we do, we won't contact each other often, and of those we do contact, it's not the whole church. That's what happened back then, but when they came out of hiding, most had the same pile of extremely-important papers. They made up what we now call the Bible. (Which always makes me think God was at work even in that.) But then some kept other writings and some kept others. The Council went through each of those choices to deem if they were something or nothing. Most they ruled out. (The fake gospels.) After all, they were closer to the event, so they had a working knowledge of what was happening to see why those fakes were produced. And then a few came into the "we don't know what these are but they're something" group. Today that's called the Apocrypha. Not exactly God inspired but something.

So, wherever you got that info about 12,000 dead rising with Jesus is the only way we'd know if that's true. What did the Council of Nicaea think of that writing?

Obviously the dead did rise when Jesus died, but what happened after that is still debatable. The inspired word of God doesn't cover it. Less than inspired might. Unless you know what the Council of Nicaea decided on that report, no one can tell.
 
A

atwhatcost

Guest
#6
#6
Rudimental said:
Right. But what about 1 Corinthians 2:9? that says But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

Is this a contradiction? Or are they in a different part of heaven and wont get to enter the heaven that God has created (prepared) for us until the return of the Lord?
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My pet theory (as compared to actually knowing this for a fact, so it's not gospel.) On the cross, Jesus told the one thief that today you will be with me in paradise.

He didn't say heaven. He said paradise. I think it is a place for believers to dwell until Judgment Day.

Or, since God created time and space Judgement Day is a one time event we all run into the moment we die and there is no paradise. Honestly? The paradise thingy makes me feel easier because I can't imagine living outside time and space. lol
 
C

CeileDe

Guest
#7
#7
They are still living amongst us and in hiding until the end of days. They will be apart of the 144,000 that are sealed.
 
C

CeileDe

Guest
#8
#8
Oh and by the way. I was just joking, really have no clue.
 
R

Rudimental

Guest
#9
#9
Jeff_56 said:
like lazarus, they also did not have gloried bodies (only physically restored bodies) when they came out of the grave.
their resurrection was somehow different than Yahshua who was raised to never die again.
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Interesting. Is there any scripture to back this up Jeff? Were they restored to how they was when they died then? Given that many of them would have probably had some kind of age induced ailments and that some probably died of some natural disease or reason. Was their restored condition to that of how it was some years prior to their death? Or perhaps even, they were restored to how they was in their youthful prime? Although if it was like Lazurus as you say, then probably looking pretty much like they were without any ailments or anything wrong with them.

But after the while, they, as valiant says, ascended with Christ into Heaven. Did Lazurus also ascend into Heaven? Or did he have to face dying again one day? As scripture says it is appointed unto men once to die.

I could ask the same for the other people that Christ raised from the dead.

Jesus raised from the dead 3 people:

1. the only son of a widow from Nain (Luke 7:11-14)
2. the daughter of the religious leader Jairus (Mark 5:22-43)
3. Lazarus (John 11:1-44)

What happened to these people? They had to die again to face a 2nd death?

I don't mean to be controversial it's simply just me wondering. :)
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#10
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#10
Study the word firstfruits as applied unto Jesus, the 144,000 in Revelation and the wave offering.......
 
N

nogard

Senior Member
#11
Aug 21, 2013
331
2
0
#11
Matthews crucifixion and resurrection account was much more supernatural than that of the other three gospel writers. The earthquake and the dead rising - two rather miraculous things - did not seem relevant to the other gospel writers. Matthew also really embellishes the resurrection story with the angels rolling away the tomb and scaring the guards (the other tellings have the tomb already rolled away when the same people get there). Since the other three gospel writers did not mention the earthquakes, the walking dead, and the miraculous unrolling, I'd have to side with them and say these things probably didn't happen.

I mean...if there is a car accident by a cemetery, and there are four witnesses, and only one of them mentions the earthquake and the people coming out of the graves, who would you believe?
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#12
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#12
nogard said:
Matthews crucifixion and resurrection account was much more supernatural than that of the other three gospel writers. The earthquake and the dead rising - two rather miraculous things - did not seem relevant to the other gospel writers. Matthew also really embellishes the resurrection story with the angels rolling away the tomb and scaring the guards (the other tellings have the tomb already rolled away when the same people get there). Since the other three gospel writers did not mention the earthquakes, the walking dead, and the miraculous unrolling, I'd have to side with them and say these things probably didn't happen.

I mean...if there is a car accident by a cemetery, and there are four witnesses, and only one of them mentions the earthquake and the people coming out of the graves, who would you believe?
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Matthew didn't embellish anything.....he was inspired to write what was written....every word of God is INSPIRED (ALL scripture)...2nd Timothy 3:16-17
 
N

nogard

Senior Member
#13
Aug 21, 2013
331
2
0
#13
dcontroversal said:
Matthew didn't embellish anything.....he was inspired to write what was written....every word of God is INSPIRED (ALL scripture)...2nd Timothy 3:16-17
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Well somebody is lying because Mark, Luke, and John say that when Mary and company got to the tomb it was already rolled away and they had no knowledge of angelic involvement until they started snooping around (entering the tomb, questioning people, etc.). This is in direct contradiction to Matthews account.

But let's get back to the crucifixion. If Matthew is NOT lying. If, in fact, there was an earthquake, and, even more importantly, a mass resurrection of the saints, why do the other gospel writers not mention it?

Could they not have known? Preposterous. If they were witnesses to the resurrection than they must have been aware of an earthquake and the walking dead.

Could they have considered it irrelevant or just simply chose not to include it? Unlikely. I mean, we are talking about a massive resurrection event occurring here of people rising from their graves, venturing into the city, and appearing to people. Along with the earthquake, this would be seen as a miraculous sign and proof Christ was no ordinary man. Once again, if you witness a car crash at a cemetery and the dead start rising from their graves, how could you leave out the fact that dead people were rising from their graves?

There really is no good explanation for why the other gospel writers would exclude this information if the earthquake and resurrections really did happen. Plus, according to Matthew, these saints who rose from the dead ventured into the city and appeared to people. There is no mention of this happening in any other historical document or from any historians of the time.
 
N

nogard

Senior Member
#14
Aug 21, 2013
331
2
0
#14
dcontroversal said:
Matthew didn't embellish anything.....he was inspired to write what was written....every word of God is INSPIRED (ALL scripture)...2nd Timothy 3:16-17
Click to expand...
Sorry for the double post (and I hope this doesn't mean everyone is going to ignore my first post), but I just wanted to add something about 2 Timothy 3:16-17.

Scripture being inspired by God is not the same as Scripture being perfect. Why do people have such a hard time understanding that? Only God is perfect, right? Yet somehow this book that is written, assembled, and maintained by man is also perfect? The New Testament is a collection of gospel accounts and letters (Galatians 6:11 anyone?). It's not perfection.
 
P

popeye

Guest
#15
#15
Rudimental said:
A lot of people don't actually know about this, this part of scripture is often overlooked.

Matthew 27:52 KJV. And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

Matthew 27:53. And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

The graves were opened, and many bodies of saints which slept, arose. To whom they appeared, in what manner, and how they disappeared again, we are not told; and we must not desire to be wise above what is written.

I was reading about this online and found this written "The Ante-Nicene Library is a collection of manuscripts written by important Christians from the time of Jesus Christ to the Council of Nicea (325 AD). These manuscripts were not included in the Christian Bible, so they are non-canonical. Within this library are numerous writings about how Jesus descended into Hades while His body lay in the tomb, and that numerous saints (one report 12,000) rose from the dead with Jesus on Easter Sunday. These reportedly remained on earth for the 40 days Jesus remained after having risen and ascended into Heaven with Jesus. There are many reports of these risen saints having been seen in Jerusalem after Easter Sunday."

The apostle Matthew confirmed this when he wrote: "and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many." Matthew 27:52-53.

My question is. Were those saints that came alive again during the moment of Christ's death, called up into heaven after the 40 days or did they die again? Only to be resurrected on the last day again?
Click to expand...
1)what was paradise? It was where the patriarchs went after death. (the rich man and lazarus. lazarus was with abraham in paradise.
2) Jesus preached the gospel to the patriarcs and then took them with him to heaven. This is the firstfruits harvest.

They are in heaven now.
 
A

atwhatcost

Guest
#16
#16
nogard said:
Matthews crucifixion and resurrection account was much more supernatural than that of the other three gospel writers. The earthquake and the dead rising - two rather miraculous things - did not seem relevant to the other gospel writers. Matthew also really embellishes the resurrection story with the angels rolling away the tomb and scaring the guards (the other tellings have the tomb already rolled away when the same people get there). Since the other three gospel writers did not mention the earthquakes, the walking dead, and the miraculous unrolling, I'd have to side with them and say these things probably didn't happen.

I mean...if there is a car accident by a cemetery, and there are four witnesses, and only one of them mentions the earthquake and the people coming out of the graves, who would you believe?
Click to expand...
Well, since the events we WERE discussing happened roughly 2000 years ago, I'd tend not to believe anyone who says there was a car crash near the cemetery.

And since cops know eyewitness accounts never sound exactly the same, given what they do have in common, even they would trust the four accounts given. It's when they all sound exactly the same it's likely it's not true.
 
A

atwhatcost

Guest
#17
#17
nogard said:
Well somebody is lying because Mark, Luke, and John say that when Mary and company got to the tomb it was already rolled away and they had no knowledge of angelic involvement until they started snooping around (entering the tomb, questioning people, etc.). This is in direct contradiction to Matthews account.

But let's get back to the crucifixion. If Matthew is NOT lying. If, in fact, there was an earthquake, and, even more importantly, a mass resurrection of the saints, why do the other gospel writers not mention it?

Could they not have known? Preposterous. If they were witnesses to the resurrection than they must have been aware of an earthquake and the walking dead.

Could they have considered it irrelevant or just simply chose not to include it? Unlikely. I mean, we are talking about a massive resurrection event occurring here of people rising from their graves, venturing into the city, and appearing to people. Along with the earthquake, this would be seen as a miraculous sign and proof Christ was no ordinary man. Once again, if you witness a car crash at a cemetery and the dead start rising from their graves, how could you leave out the fact that dead people were rising from their graves?

There really is no good explanation for why the other gospel writers would exclude this information if the earthquake and resurrections really did happen. Plus, according to Matthew, these saints who rose from the dead ventured into the city and appeared to people. There is no mention of this happening in any other historical document or from any historians of the time.
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The only person lying is writer of the article you read that promoted all this bologna.
 
V

valiant

Senior Member
#18
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
63
#18
Rudimental said:
Right. But what about 1 Corinthians 2:9? that says But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

Is this a contradiction? Or are they in a different part of heaven and wont get to enter the heaven that God has created (prepared) for us until the return of the Lord?
Click to expand...
I would say neither. in my view the eyes which have not seen are of those on earth. They say nothing about those who have gone before.
 
V

valiant

Senior Member
#19
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
63
#19
nogard said:
Well somebody is lying because Mark, Luke, and John say that when Mary and company got to the tomb it was already rolled away and they had no knowledge of angelic involvement until they started snooping around (entering the tomb, questioning people, etc.). This is in direct contradiction to Matthews account.

But let's get back to the crucifixion. If Matthew is NOT lying. If, in fact, there was an earthquake, and, even more importantly, a mass resurrection of the saints, why do the other gospel writers not mention it?

Could they not have known? Preposterous. If they were witnesses to the resurrection than they must have been aware of an earthquake and the walking dead.

Could they have considered it irrelevant or just simply chose not to include it? Unlikely. I mean, we are talking about a massive resurrection event occurring here of people rising from their graves, venturing into the city, and appearing to people. Along with the earthquake, this would be seen as a miraculous sign and proof Christ was no ordinary man. Once again, if you witness a car crash at a cemetery and the dead start rising from their graves, how could you leave out the fact that dead people were rising from their graves?

There really is no good explanation for why the other gospel writers would exclude this information if the earthquake and resurrections really did happen. Plus, according to Matthew, these saints who rose from the dead ventured into the city and appeared to people. There is no mention of this happening in any other historical document or from any historians of the time.
Click to expand...
you are assuming that all the Gospel writers had available to them all the information contained in all the Gospels. But this was not so. Each of them called on oral traditions known to them.

Matthew and John were the only two who had first hand knowledge of things, and John tended to avoid duplicating the other Gospels. Thus it is quite reasonable to assume that only Matthew had such a vivid memory of what happened in Jerusalem at the time of the resurrection, and it should be noted that even he did not make a big thing of it. Mark and Luke, writing to Gentiles, may indeed, even if they did know of it, have felt it unwise to refer to the resurrection of others lest it confuse the situation. It is clear that no one considered that it had an important lesson to teach. Why then would they mention it?
 
V

valiant

Senior Member
#20
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
63
#20
nogard said:
Well somebody is lying because Mark, Luke, and John say that when Mary and company got to the tomb it was already rolled away and they had no knowledge of angelic involvement until they started snooping around (entering the tomb, questioning people, etc.). This is in direct contradiction to Matthews account.
Click to expand...
Or perhaps you are just confused? Matthew refers to an early visit by two Marys sent ahead to reconnoitre. when they found the open tomb. The next verse says WHY it was open but it does not say that that event was seen by the two Marys. It happened before they got there. One of them sped to tell Peter and John, the other returned to the women awaiting news about whether they would be able to get into the tomb.

But Matthew does not tell us that they saw the angel at the time of the opening of the tomb.

The other women with Mary came later and investigated and it was then that they met the angels and spoke with them. Thus there is no contradiction.
 
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