Yes or No?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#1
Since I can read, I already know there are people here who will say this statement is not true. I am just curious to hear the reasons.

Our understanding of God, His will, ourselves, and the true condition of this present world cannot be formed by our experience, our reason, or even our interpretation of the Bible apart from Christ. We need a solid rock we can anchor ourselves to, and that Rock is Christ alone!

(And I am not talking about trying to cop out by pointing out that God and Christ are one. We all know Christ brought a totally different picture of the Father than was [and is] popularly accepted.)
 
W

wwjd_kilden

Guest
#2
well duh, if you remove Christ you remove half the bible.
 
3

3Scoreand10

Guest
#4
A person that has not been born again can never fully understand the Word, Christ, The Holy Spirit, nor the Father.
It seems the more they study with out Christ as their Savior the more confused they become.
At least that is what I have observed.
 
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
107
0
#5
well duh, if you remove Christ you remove half the bible.
Remove Christ and remove all of the Bible, not just half.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,998
113
#6
We all know Christ brought a totally different picture of the Father than was [and is] popularly accepted.)

Could you explain what you mean by this?
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#7
Could you explain what you mean by this?
What did Jesus "look" like? (his actions, compassion, gentleness, love, self-sacrifice, His healing, His forgiveness etc.)

And He said that He and the Father were one... That if you have seen Him, you have seen the Father... That He did nothing that was not an exact wish of the Father. And there are more...

He never showed us revenge, vengeance, killing of thousands, striking people dead on the spot, etc.

The "picture" He showed us of God was never the one thousands of years of religious conjecture had the Jewish people believing was the true God.

If we are going to, as "Christians", believe that God and Jesus are one, then we had better decide which one is the real God.
 
Jan 7, 2015
6,057
78
0
#8
James 1:17
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Hebrews 1:1-31 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,998
113
#9
What did Jesus "look" like? (his actions, compassion, gentleness, love, self-sacrifice, His healing, His forgiveness etc.)

And He said that He and the Father were one... That if you have seen Him, you have seen the Father... That He did nothing that was not an exact wish of the Father. And there are more...

He never showed us revenge, vengeance, killing of thousands, striking people dead on the spot, etc.

The "picture" He showed us of God was never the one thousands of years of religious conjecture had the Jewish people believing was the true God.

If we are going to, as "Christians", believe that God and Jesus are one, then we had better decide which one is the real God.
Well, since the God of the Old Testament is the same God of the New Testament, your point seems rather moot. Also, please remember that in the book of Revelation, God reveals He is going to slay literally billions of people.

Read Revelation 19:11-21.

Jesus is coming back in wrath as a judge. And the nations will not fare well.
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#10
Well, since the God of the Old Testament is the same God of the New Testament, your point seems rather moot. Also, please remember that in the book of Revelation, God reveals He is going to slay literally billions of people.

Read Revelation 19:11-21.

Jesus is coming back in wrath as a judge. And the nations will not fare well.
You read it. And then come back and tell me how He is going to "slay" them.
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,998
113
#11
You read it. And then come back and tell me how He is going to "slay" them.
"I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war. His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.” He treads the wine press of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:

The King Of Kings and the Lord of Lords.


And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”
Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh."


Rather graphic and the to the point - don't you think?
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,188
113
#12
Yes.

We don't even know our own condition until we come to Christ.

We definitely don't understand the will of God or the condition of this present world will without coming to Christ.

Even coming to Christ some of this stuff is confusing, at first. Until you study the bible, a lot.

John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Interesting distinction. Did you notice it?
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#13


"I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war. His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.” He treads the wine press of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:

The King Of Kings and the Lord of Lords.


And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”
Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh."


Rather graphic and the to the point - don't you think?
Ok.... Now, you have Hin "Striking down nations."

With what? "A sword coming out of His mouth." Interesting way to hold a weapon.

But, then, after you have Him killing these nations.... He is then going to rule them?

Oh well, let's just say somehow that happens. Then, I believe you would tell me they are cast into Hell or a Lake of Fire.... Right? Great. Got rid of them.

But, uh oh........... who shows up right outside the new city (Where the gates are NEVER SHUT) Looks like those pesky "nations" again.

And what is the Bride and the Spirit doing? I hear them inviting "Come". Come where? It seems to indicate........ inside the city where "the leaves of The Tree of Life are healing for the nations." For whom??? Yep, Rev 22 (around verse 17) says for those killed (dead) and burned up "NATIONS."

Now, do yourself a favor, and go all the way back to the very first verses of the book. What state of being does John tell us he is in when he sees all this stuff?

Please, get all that FEAR Jesus told you not to have out of your mind, and understand that NONE of John's vision was ever meant to be taken literally.
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#14
Yes.

We don't even know our own condition until we come to Christ.

We definitely don't understand the will of God or the condition of this present world will without coming to Christ.

Even coming to Christ some of this stuff is confusing, at first. Until you study the bible, a lot.

John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Interesting distinction. Did you notice it?
Yep, I noticed. And "Grace & Truth" are one.
 
Last edited:

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,998
113
#15
Ok.... Now, you have Hin "Striking down nations."

With what? "A sword coming out of His mouth." Interesting way to hold a weapon.

But, then, after you have Him killing these nations.... He is then going to rule them?

Oh well, let's just say somehow that happens. Then, I believe you would tell me they are cast into Hell or a Lake of Fire.... Right? Great. Got rid of them.

But, uh oh........... who shows up right outside the new city (Where the gates are NEVER SHUT) Looks like those pesky "nations" again.

And what is the Bride and the Spirit doing? I hear them inviting "Come". Come where? It seems to indicate........ inside the city where "the leaves of The Tree of Life are healing for the nations." For whom??? Yep, Rev 22 (around verse 17) says for those killed (dead) and burned up "NATIONS."

Now, do yourself a favor, and go all the way back to the very first verses of the book. What state of being does John tell us he is in when he sees all this stuff?

Please, get all that FEAR Jesus told you not to have out of your mind, and understand that NONE of John's vision was ever meant to be taken literally.


It's rather odd how you just simply sweep aside what is written in Revelation through mocking. It means exactly what it says: Jesus is going to slay a lot of people when he returns, and the birds will be called to gorge themselves on their flesh.

There is no distinction in character between the God of the Old Testament and the God of the New. In love or in wrath.


understand that NONE of John's vision was ever meant to be taken literally

Are you SERIOUS???
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#16
It's rather odd how you just simply sweep aside what is written in Revelation through mocking. It means exactly what it says: Jesus is going to slay a lot of people when he returns, and the birds will be called to gorge themselves on their flesh.

There is no distinction in character between the God of the Old Testament and the God of the New. In love or in wrath.
Not mocking Revelation as it was written..... Just agast at the twisted mess people try to make out of John's message by using it as a crystal ball.
 
Mar 10, 2015
1,174
18
0
#17
A person that has not been born again can never fully understand the Word, Christ, The Holy Spirit, nor the Father.
It seems the more they study with out Christ as their Savior the more confused they become.
At least that is what I have observed.
Did you forget that Matt 4 and Luke 4 prove that Satan fully understands the word, Believed Jesus Christ came in the flesh and understood him , the Holy Holy Spirit and the Father?

Have you been round modern day atheists or secular humanists? Especially any of which were raised in the church?

They know the word better than most Church going Christians do. What they lack is 1 COr 2 revelation, but do not think for a minute that they do not fully understand the Bible or even Jesus Christ
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
#18
Revelation 19 fully accords with Mat 24, Luk 21, and Zec 14.

that makes it difficult to alegorize it with intellectual integrity.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#19
What did Jesus "look" like? (his actions, compassion, gentleness, love, self-sacrifice, His healing, His forgiveness etc.)

And He said that He and the Father were one... That if you have seen Him, you have seen the Father... That He did nothing that was not an exact wish of the Father. And there are more...

He never showed us revenge, vengeance, killing of thousands, striking people dead on the spot, etc.

The "picture" He showed us of God was never the one thousands of years of religious conjecture had the Jewish people believing was the true God.

If we are going to, as "Christians", believe that God and Jesus are one, then we had better decide which one is the real God.


"If we are going to, as "Christians", believe that God and Jesus are one, then we had better decide which one is the real God."

So are you saying we need to pick between the OT and NT God which is correct one? Im missing something I think....
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#20
Not mocking Revelation as it was written..... Just agast at the twisted mess people try to make out of John's message by using it as a crystal ball.

John saw jasper walls....was that a fake dream?