Do you really believe and are you really saved?

know1 · Jun 13, 2015

I have mentioned in the past about talking to an atheist, and how both he and his wife were once certified Baptist ministers until, allegedly, the man died, then came back to life. Because of his experience of seeing blackness when he was allegedly dead, he and his wife no longer believe there is a God or devil, or that there is a heaven or hell.
And because he didn't know for certain that there was a God or that the bible was the word of God, he tried to tell me that I really didn't know if God did exist or that the bible was His written word.
So I argued with him, telling him that I REALLY DO KNOW that God really and truly does exist and that the bible is most certainly the written word of God. And I did so with a clear conscience really knowing both to be true.
Most of you would say that he really wasn't saved in the first place because he turned from believing in God. Maybe there is some truth in that.
Most of you believe according to yours or someone else's experiences and have a form of Godliness but deny the power thereof, because you don't really believe. Most of you have at one point prayed for someone or for something and didn't get the desired results and so turned from believing, to, "if it be God's will", and because of past experiences, no longer believe in "that faith stuff", because it "doesn't work".
Since most of you go by experiences, do you really believe or do you just think you do because you don't have anything that has challenged your so called faith in your salvation?
For example, some of you prayed for healing for yourself or a loved one, and like most, failed to get the desired results. Or maybe even the person you were praying for died or were told that they believed for their healing and died.
Now where is your faith concerning healing? Did it change because of someone or some situation or circumstance that challenged your faith? Do you still believe in healing, after you prayed for so and so's healing or so and so was believing for their healing and they died? I can't tell you all how often I have heard that?
The question is, what is your faith in and what are you looking at? The word of God or in the situation or past history that contradicted your prayers or that which you were believing for?
Is it in the rock/truth/word of God, or is it in the sand/natural/current or past situations/experiences?
So do you really believe, or do you just think you do?
Are you really saved, or do you just think you are?
It is written, "MANY will say to me, Lord Lord", but will not be allow in heaven. Are you one of the many, because you THINK you are saved and don't know that you are lost?
According to scripture, that is, and will be, the case and state of many so called Christians.
So how do you KNOW that you really believe and that your salvation is sure when your so called faith hasn't been challenged yet, like that concerning healing or answered prayer?
Some of you use to believe in healing, but because your faith was challenge concerning healing, now you don't.
Could we say that you never believed in the first place because you turned from believing to doubting, like you say about someone that has turned from believing in God to being an atheist, concerning salvation?
I don't know about you, but I see some similarities between the two.
So, do you really believe, and are you going to heaven, when your faith for your salvation hasn't really or seriously been challenged like the man that allegedly died and didn't go to heaven?
I'm not talking about arguing or contending for the faith like you do on CC, but something life shattering.
So, aside from the fact that I used the word, "really" far too many times, how do you know that you truly believe and that your are going to heaven, assuming, for the sake of argument, that OSAS is true?

posthuman · Jun 13, 2015

know1 said:

being fully persuaded that He is able to keep me and complete the work He began in me

atwhatcost · Jun 13, 2015

know1 said:

I have mentioned in the past about talking to an atheist, and how both he and his wife were once certified Baptist ministers until, allegedly, the man died, then came back to life. Because of his experience of seeing blackness when he was allegedly dead, he and his wife no longer believe there is a God or devil, or that there is a heaven or hell.
And because he didn't know for certain that there was a God or that the bible was the word of God, he tried to tell me that I really didn't know if God did exist or that the bible was His written word.
So I argued with him, telling him that I REALLY DO KNOW that God really and truly does exist and that the bible is most certainly the written word of God. And I did so with a clear conscience really knowing both to be true.
Most of you would say that he really wasn't saved in the first place because he turned from believing in God. Maybe there is some truth in that.
Most of you believe according to yours or someone else's experiences and have a form of Godliness but deny the power thereof, because you don't really believe. Most of you have at one point prayed for someone or for something and didn't get the desired results and so turned from believing, to, "if it be God's will", and because of past experiences, no longer believe in "that faith stuff", because it "doesn't work".
Since most of you go by experiences, do you really believe or do you just think you do because you don't have anything that has challenged your so called faith in your salvation?
For example, some of you prayed for healing for yourself or a loved one, and like most, failed to get the desired results. Or maybe even the person you were praying for died or were told that they believed for their healing and died.
Now where is your faith concerning healing? Did it change because of someone or some situation or circumstance challenged your faith? Do you still believe after you prayed for so and so's healing or so and so was believing for their healing and they died? I can't tell you all how often I have heard that?
The question is, what is your faith in and what are you looking at? The word of God or in the situation or past history that contradicted your prayers or that which you were believing for?
Is it in the rock/truth/word of God, or is it in the sand/natural/current or past situations/experiences?
So do you really believe, or do you just think you do?
Are you really saved, or do you just think you are?
It is written, "MANY will say to me, Lord Lord", but will not be allow in heaven. Are you one of the many, because you THINK you are saved and don't know that you are lost?
According to scripture, that is, and will be, the case and state of many so called Christians.
So how do you KNOW that you really believe and that your salvation is sure when your so called faith hasn't been challenged yet, like that concerning healing or answered prayer?
Some of you use to believe in healing, but because your faith was challenge concerning healing, now you don't.
Could we say that you never believed in the first place because you turned from believing to doubting, like you say about someone that has turned from believing in God to being an atheist, concerning salvation?
I don't know about you, but I see some similarities between the two.
So, do you really believe, and are you going to heaven, when your faith for your salvation hasn't really or seriously been challenged like the man that allegedly died and didn't go to heaven?
I'm not talking about arguing or contending for the faith like you do on CC, but something life shattering.
So, aside from the fact that I used the word, "really" far too many times, how do you know that you truly believe and that your are going to heaven, assuming, for the sake of argument, that OSAS is true?

LOL I love a good laugh in the morning.

What am I laughing about? After reading, "Most of you" more often than you noticed your reallys, you have the audacity to say,

Apparently, you, supposedly, really do know everything there is to know about everyone on this site. So then why ask what we believe after telling us what we believe? Obviously no need to tell you what I believe, because you already know. So, thanks for the good laugh. LOL

Lifetrack · Jun 13, 2015

Doubt and unbelieve came because of a near dead experience ?

Can i use the word 'stupid'?

What is it they wanted to see, light in the tunnel ? so then it was ok....

There must have been no trust in God before.

MadParrotWoman · Jun 13, 2015

I will admit it is sometimes difficult to believe in a country where you are only one of less than 2% of the population who believe. Your faith gets a constant bashing and sometimes you wonder if they are right and you are wrong. On the whole though I do believe and despite sometimes doubting I always take it to God. Even the apostle Thomas doubted!

I can never deny the experience I went through upon finding God despite the knock-backs.

psalm6819 · Jun 13, 2015

Yes and yes. Praise His holy name!!!!! Saved by the blood of the Lamb and the word of my testimony.

Know what the word of my testimony is?????? I am saved by the blood of the Lamb

Because of Jesus not because I obeyed rules but because of His grace and mercy.

dcontroversal · Jun 13, 2015

posthuman said:

Amen to that.....he that begun that good work in you will finish it.........saved, sealed, justified, and sanctified eternally in Christ..........

tribesman · Jun 13, 2015

We are to look to Christ alone and His work in our stead for our assurance. Not look to our own experience, our own obedience, works, law-keeping, sacrifices, sufferings, trials etc, etc. Not looking to self. We look unto Jesus, through the gospel. That's how we really believe and that's how we are really saved. And that alone.

atwhatcost · Jun 13, 2015

MadParrotWoman said:

1,269,785 people in the UK believe in the Christ you believe in. (Based on 2% of the 63,489,234 people living in the UK as of July 2014.) Not to worry. You are NOT alone, even if the others don't want you to believe that.

psychomom · Jun 13, 2015

tribesman said:

We are to look to Christ alone and His work in our stead for our assurance. Not look to our own experience, our own obedience, works, law-keeping, sacrifices, sufferings, trials etc, etc. Not looking to self. We look unto Jesus, through the gospel. That's how we really believe and that's how we are really saved. And that alone.

thank God for this blessed assurance.

Budman · Jun 13, 2015

"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Romans 10:13)

"All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me, I will in no way cast out." (John 6:37)

"I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand." (John 10:28)

I certainly believe that.

Joidevivre · Jun 13, 2015

There is a compelling force within me that is so NOT me. Only one person that could come from.

Berlinda · Jun 13, 2015

I have to say that if i hadnt had the intimate experience with God i would never believe, perhaps say i believed but deep down doubting. it was God who rescued me, i didnt capture Him and made Him mine, so i just cannot doubt waht happened to me, and on that day He showed me all taht He is, that He works the impossible etc, only later on i started reading the Bible to testify to what i had went through. i have said this in a thread i started, i was made to believe i was saved and knew God when i actually never did and sinc ei couldnt put up with that fake life i simply decided God (all that religion stuff) just didnt exist and i started another path but that wasnt fulfilling me either because i actually was after love, unaware, and He ended up revealing Himself to me and giving me His Spirit. so, as for healing, miracles, i know thats inherent in Him because He worked a miracle the day before He made me reborn, so i cant unlive what i lived, unknow Him. by the way, the years after having this personal encounter with Him i was naive and again started accepting everything as from Him and when i realized i was worse than ever, now im being more bold and listening to Him alone to make me walk in this narrow and winding road. btw again i had two dreams after i got reborn, in one i was standing on a grassy field then suddenly i was placed on a narrow, winding and slippery road in the clouds and below me was the world, then after walking some of it i slipped and was hanging by my fingers then was able to be back on the road, in the other dream i was in a dark forest then suddenly a beautiful sparkling white dove appeared and i was in awe thinking i didnt feel worthy to have it come near me then it landed on my finger and i felt just like when i got reborn, in total awe and knew who God really is. then, as i said, about a year after that i decided to read the bible and found those verses about the dove representing the Spirit and the verse about the narrow road... God is a God of truth and He isnt afraid of questions, He knows our hearts and if we really want Him He will come to us, at His timing, to reveal Himself to us in a way we can NEVER doubt. man may tell us about God a billion times, even as im doing now talking about my experience, but only experiencing it oneself can we really be sure. thats what i pray that may happen to others, not that God will save them out of debt, of give them a good job, or save their marriage, save their kids from drugs, because i think thats only a taste of who God is, but not enough to really KNOW Him in a way that there will be absolutely no room for doubt. thats my experience but there may be a million different others, but we just KNOW He will never leave us and taht we are His forever.
sorry for the mistakes in English

BradC · Jun 13, 2015

The great thing about faith is that we can really believe in what took place 2,000 years ago and it is just as good today to really save us as it did save those who walked with him and believed.

John 20:29-31

29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

crossnote · Jun 13, 2015

know1 said:

There's the problem...
Also the Holy Spirit illuminates our understanding to His Word..Experience? Maybe.

MarcR · Jun 13, 2015

know1 said:

I have mentioned in the past about talking to an atheist, and how both he and his wife were once certified Baptist ministers until, allegedly, the man died, then came back to life. Because of his experience of seeing blackness when he was allegedly dead, he and his wife no longer believe there is a God or devil, or that there is a heaven or hell.
And because he didn't know for certain that there was a God or that the bible was the word of God, he tried to tell me that I really didn't know if God did exist or that the bible was His written word.
So I argued with him, telling him that I REALLY DO KNOW that God really and truly does exist and that the bible is most certainly the written word of God. And I did so with a clear conscience really knowing both to be true.
Most of you would say that he really wasn't saved in the first place because he turned from believing in God. Maybe there is some truth in that.
Most of you believe according to yours or someone else's experiences and have a form of Godliness but deny the power thereof, because you don't really believe. Most of you have at one point prayed for someone or for something and didn't get the desired results and so turned from believing, to, "if it be God's will", and because of past experiences, no longer believe in "that faith stuff", because it "doesn't work".
Since most of you go by experiences, do you really believe or do you just think you do because you don't have anything that has challenged your so called faith in your salvation?
For example, some of you prayed for healing for yourself or a loved one, and like most, failed to get the desired results. Or maybe even the person you were praying for died or were told that they believed for their healing and died.
Now where is your faith concerning healing? Did it change because of someone or some situation or circumstance that challenged your faith? Do you still believe in healing, after you prayed for so and so's healing or so and so was believing for their healing and they died? I can't tell you all how often I have heard that?
The question is, what is your faith in and what are you looking at? The word of God or in the situation or past history that contradicted your prayers or that which you were believing for?
Is it in the rock/truth/word of God, or is it in the sand/natural/current or past situations/experiences?
So do you really believe, or do you just think you do?
Are you really saved, or do you just think you are?
It is written, "MANY will say to me, Lord Lord", but will not be allow in heaven. Are you one of the many, because you THINK you are saved and don't know that you are lost?
According to scripture, that is, and will be, the case and state of many so called Christians.
So how do you KNOW that you really believe and that your salvation is sure when your so called faith hasn't been challenged yet, like that concerning healing or answered prayer?
Some of you use to believe in healing, but because your faith was challenge concerning healing, now you don't.
Could we say that you never believed in the first place because you turned from believing to doubting, like you say about someone that has turned from believing in God to being an atheist, concerning salvation?
I don't know about you, but I see some similarities between the two.
So, do you really believe, and are you going to heaven, when your faith for your salvation hasn't really or seriously been challenged like the man that allegedly died and didn't go to heaven?
I'm not talking about arguing or contending for the faith like you do on CC, but something life shattering.
So, aside from the fact that I used the word, "really" far too many times, how do you know that you truly believe and that your are going to heaven, assuming, for the sake of argument, that OSAS is true?

Read the parable of the tares. There is absolutely nothing to keep the tares out of the pulpit; since they don't even recognize themselves as tares, and since there is nothing to keep tares, in some congregations from outnumbering the wheat.

wattie · Jun 13, 2015

I am not a fan of the 'never saved in the first place, if they fall...' type teaching. When someone genuinely has called for salvation.. it's done. They have eternal life. That shall not perish in hell.

So when people fail, struggle after being saved.. it's just that.. struggle.. failure..not a proof that they were never saved to begin with.

Sure for someone to a complete turnaround.. like going from being a christian to an atheist.. you gotta be wondering whether they really were serious in the first place..

but just because they go from a christian to an atheists.. doesn't mean they didn't at some point get delivered eternally.

What God does with someone's soul/spirit isn't always obvious to others.

The cares of this world can indeed stifle someone. That doesn't mean the Holy Spirit never saved them.

MarcR · Jun 13, 2015

wattie said:

I substantially agree with you. I do not agree that it is possible to go from saved to unsaved. If a person is truly unsaved; then the only acceptable conclusion is that they were never saved. Certainly believers who are struggling are still saved.

posthuman · Jun 13, 2015

MarcR said:

Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened.
For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed.
(1 Corinthians 5:7)

i noticed this the other day -- speaking to believers not only in sin, but boasting over it.
Paul doesn't call them leavened -- but tells them to take out the leaven because they really are unleavened.

to me, that really drove home the truth of what you guys are saying here

and that's peace that can scarcely be understood.

or am i reading this wrong? what do you think? i also happen to be blonde, ha!

Sirk · Jun 13, 2015

MarcR said:

This is precisely why the whole debate is a non starter for me. The debate on whether one can lose their salvation is based on a false premise.

Do you really believe and are you really saved?

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