Young Earth Creation. Does it matter what you believe?

[flob]

I gotta agree with poster #2 that certainly it's not an element of the faith once for all delivered to the saints.
My sister is a YEC, lol, and a PhD in physics and a geologist. She feels obligated to take the word at its word.
So do I! I guess i'm an OEC. The Bible's 'scientific' in that it's accurate and true, but knowledge or knowledge for
knowledge's sake is not its purpose. Instead, it's purpose is life. As in: the eternal life. Which is to know the Father
and to know His Son, and Spirit, subjectively, personally, inwardly. So Praise Him.

Of course we know that the mythology Evolution flatly contradicts Genesis. The deeper, 'Life,' matter in all of that is
that God Himself is a Family, a Begetting. The Son is eternally begotten, the Father is eternally the Father. There never
was a time when They were not Father and Son. They are not a barren, sterile One. They are 2 in 1. 3 in 1. And God's
eternal purpose, to which He's predestined His chosen, is sonship. To have many sons. Not by adoption. But generated,
regenerated, conceived and born (in the spirit) by His life. He is eternal life.

So my sister politely argues to me that historically no one ever conceived of an earth older than Adam, up until, like at the time roughly of Darwin and his absurdity, and prior, when science, both with regard to dinosaurs and geology, began realizing or teaching that the earth is vastly ancient. She argues, rightly, that Evolution mythology (I prefer the word 'mythology' to 'theory,' since I feel it's more precise) requires a vastly ancient earth, and that therefore that discovery or persuasion, on the part of science, prepared the way for the deceit and conceit of Evolution theory. I agree with her on all that, though i'm open to input on it. She says that believers who suggest that the earth is ancient, whether by means of figurative 'days' of creation in Genesis 1, or by an undefined gap of time between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 (my position)---that such believers do so not because the Scriptures enlightened us, but rather we do so, or find so, post hoc. That is, only in trying to make the Bible fit with science or 'science.' My response to her is that even if 'Gentiles' have influenced us/me in that way, still it can lead to bona fide, genuine enlightenment concerning the Scriptural narrative about creation.

The deeper, truth, matter in all of that is that, per my 'gap theory' (my gap reading), one can see a pattern in the war between God and Satan, and see God's wisdom and use of His enemy, in God's carrying out and fulfillment of His eternal purpose, which He made in Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world. This hasn't persuaded my sister, but it has persuaded and helped me all the more to worship God, draw closer to Christ, fear Him, and appreciate the simplicity and style and elegance (and perfection) of the written word of God.

 

[atwhatcost]

I dont thinknit is asticking point of theology. Both ways have good arguments supporting them and to be honest i dont care which it was. Either way God was great when he did it, and if i start to worry about it, i can ask God when i see him.



Pre-sun days as well for the first few.

Gen 1:5 (right after he finished making light, but days before he made the sun) God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.

Like I said, how do you deal with the rest of the book, if you don't believe the very beginning of it?

 

[atwhatcost]

how do you measure morning and evening before the sun and moon are made and set in place (day four -- Genesis 1:14-19) ?
because that's how we measure them now and come up with 24 human hours.

IMO valiant has a valid point.

Point defeated: Gen. 1:5 God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.

 

[atwhatcost]

as far as the OP i don't think where you fall on old-earth / young earth matters with regard to salvation.

whether you think a yom is a human measurement or a divine one in Genesis does not change whether you believe in God and in the One He sent.

YOM isn't candy? Shoot. Was kind of hoping for chocolate. lol

(In truth, I have no idea who Dr. what's his name is, don't keep up with Young Earth science, but do keep up with the humorous science called evolution. It's really funny, but no one catches on for a couple of decades, since they change it so subtlety, that, at first, you think you just remembered something wrong. lol

I liked the brontosaurs. Kind of bummed it doesn't exist anymore. I remember Piltdown man, simply because our schoolbooks rarely got updated, and I just finished a novel series about Cro-Magnons only to find out they aren't a separate species from modern man anymore. Let's just not get into feathers and dinosaurs. But, all this simply from reading what evolutionists are trying to sell us on. lol

 

[atwhatcost]

I am curious though what it is that has convinced yec believers.

if you guys could post a website or two?

I got my beliefs from the obvious source -- the Bible. (Genesis really makes a lot of sense, right down to no need for sun until the fourth day. The first couple of days the earth went from void and formless to terrestrially. The third day the plants were made. Fourth day, celestial bodies to keep it fixed at just the right distance from the sun and the moon controls the ebb and flow of the sea, plus, hey plants need sun. And what was that light, since it wasn't the sun? Your guess is as good as mine. My guess is the same light we still have -- God. For all we know outside time and space it's light. Why not?) Add to that, I get Smithsonian so read the funnies... err I mean their stories about evolution. (I love how much they fight when the facts change. Aren't they used to facts keep changing yet? lol) I don't trust websites, unless I seek info that doesn't change as beliefs change.

 

[posthuman]

Point defeated: Gen. 1:5 God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.

yes!
& so when God said "let there be light"
how much light did He make? just 12 earth-hours?



i hope not to hurt anyone's faith - i just don't think it's as simple.. well, like when i first believed, it was a simple and childlike faith - and as i've grown up, it never ceases to grow deeper, even though it's still so simple. words fail, asdghlwekh!!

 

[posthuman]

I got my beliefs from the obvious source -- the Bible. (Genesis really makes a lot of sense, right down to no need for sun until the fourth day...)

i did 4 years of astrophysics at an university, and Genesis still really makes a lot of sense, even more now to me than it did before i got taught lots of cosmology. my belief never changed; only my understanding.

 

[Jimbone]

I got my beliefs from the obvious source -- the Bible. (Genesis really makes a lot of sense, right down to no need for sun until the fourth day. The first couple of days the earth went from void and formless to terrestrially. The third day the plants were made. Fourth day, celestial bodies to keep it fixed at just the right distance from the sun and the moon controls the ebb and flow of the sea, plus, hey plants need sun. And what was that light, since it wasn't the sun? Your guess is as good as mine. My guess is the same light we still have -- God. For all we know outside time and space it's light. Why not?) Add to that, I get Smithsonian so read the funnies... err I mean their stories about evolution. (I love how much they fight when the facts change. Aren't they used to facts keep changing yet? lol) I don't trust websites, unless I seek info that doesn't change as beliefs change.

Amen, that was my first answer to his question as well, I don't need "web sites" to prove God to me, the Holy Spirit did that the day He saved me. Another HUGE problem I see with believing the earth is millions of years old aside from the plant thing (a very good point too in my opinion) is you would have to have death before the fall, a clear heresy from my point of view. I also don't believe God designed the bible to need a guru to explain to us what it means. I don't see millions of years in Genesis from simply reading it personally. If you have to go to the Hebrew, stand on your head, and squint one eye while looking at it from the right angle to get billions of years, then you are trying too hard to make it fit what you want it to say, in my opinion to avoid going against what the world says is fact to avoid ridicule.

It says exactly what it means, God is not the author of confusion. That's how I look at it, but that said I also don't think it should be made a divisive issue by any means, and Jesus should be the real focus in the grand scheme of things anyway. Only through Him are we given the Holy Spirit, and that's only way to any real truth anyway.

 

[valiant]

Gen 1:5 (right after he finished making light, but days before he made the sun)God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.

Like I said, how do you deal with the rest of the book, if you don't believe the very beginning of it?

that's what I am saying believe it when it says He called THE LIGHT 'day'. He did not call night and day 'day'. Thus the first 'day' is a period of light not a period of dark and night. It had a morning and an evening in between which God did His work.

believe it when it says that earthly days and nights were not fixed by the sun until the fourth yom. Thus clearly the 'six yom of creation' were NOT yom of the length of an earthly day and night.

believe it when it says that the first day DID NOT begin with an evening, but began with total darkness.

 

[valiant]

Point defeated: Gen. 1:5 God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.

But He nowhere says how long those periods of light and darkness were. the light was God's light controlled by Him, and there is no reason at all why it should have been measured in earthy hours.

 

[posthuman]

If you have to go to the Hebrew, stand on your head, and squint one eye while looking at it from the right angle to get billions of years, then you are trying too hard to make it fit what you want it to say, in my opinion

what if you have to do that to make the real world that you see and touch and experience every day agree with how you understand scripture?

are you maybe trying too hard to get reality to fit what you perceive it ought to be?

the heavens are still His handiwork & still declare His glory -- and if He's not the author of confusion i'm not sure why He would make the universe appear to have such a scale in space & time, and such universal order in it's physical attributes if it really doesn't. what's with all the dinosaur fossils and impossibly far-away galaxies if they never existed, you know? it just tells me how little we really know.

at the end of the day, it shouldn't be divisive, but a matter of wonder at how great He is to have made such a place. i don't think we understand any better the details of how the heavens and earth were made than we understand why He allowed sin to exist in the first place -- we can speculate, but if we get angry with each other over it, we've lost sight of Him.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

But He nowhere says how long those periods of light and darkness were. the light was God's light controlled by Him, and there is no reason at all why it should have been measured in earthy hours.

The evening and the morning, one day.

 

[Jimbone]

what if you have to do that to make the real world that you see and touch and experience every day agree with how you understand scripture?

are you maybe trying too hard to get reality to fit what you perceive it ought to be?

the heavens are still His handiwork & still declare His glory -- and if He's not the author of confusion i'm not sure why He would make the universe appear to have such a scale in space & time, and such universal order in it's physical attributes if it really doesn't. what's with all the dinosaur fossils and impossibly far-away galaxies if they never existed, you know? it just tells me how little we really know.

at the end of the day, it shouldn't be divisive, but a matter of wonder at how great He is to have made such a place. i don't think we understand any better the details of how the heavens and earth were made than we understand why He allowed sin to exist in the first place -- we can speculate, but if we get angry with each other over it, we've lost sight of Him.

Maybe I am, maybe you are, that is why I was very careful to say "to me", "in my opinion", and "reading it personally". Why does it bother you so much that I posted my view on it? You sure enough just made it divisive did you not? The bible is what I go by and I have never even seen the concept of "millions of years" clearly in ANY of it, have you? If not then you HAVE to insert your own concept into it because it doesn't say that. I see days just as clear as can be, no one in history EVER interpreted millions of years into those words until the 20th century, are you suggesting to me the Hebrews that wrote it thought the earth was 4.6 billion years old? Also why would God even need that much time to do this? The only logical reason I can think of that someone would "want" to see all that time in Genesis, is to fit modern science and evolution in there, period. Other than that there is NO other reason to need it to mean billions of years. Again to stay as PC as possible, in my opinion.

 

[Agricola]

People miss the obvious. Instead of arguing over the length of a day, which has not changed since God created everything, it should be how long were Adam and Eve in Eden for? Did they age in Eden? had they not been kicked out, could they have spent eternity in Eden? It is not that difficult to say they spent 100,000 years in Eden.

 

[posthuman]

Why does it bother you so much that I posted my view on it?

it doesn't.

the only thing about any of this that bothers me is that believers today are sometimes pressured to believe in a 6,000 year old universe or told they're not really believers if they don't. so that conversations like this turn into accusations instead of conversations.

which is why i out that link on the other page, about how the dogmatism over this came from a cult, and wasn't reflected in the early church, or among the Jews before Christ, or even after.

do you mind if put my views too, so anyone who also believes like i do doesn't feel like they're "not a Christian" on account of accepting some of the evidence of their own eyes?
'cause i don't think modern cosmology conflicts with the Bible. i think it confirms it in astonishing ways.

 

[posthuman]

The evening and the morning, one day.

one day for sure! amen!

one day at the north pole or one day at the equator?
one day on earth or one day on the moon?
or one day in the heavens?
one day as God observes it or one day as men do?

 

[GodIsSalvation]

one day for sure! amen!

one day at the north pole or one day at the equator?
one day on earth or one day on the moon?
or one day in the heavens?
one day as God observes it or one day as men do?

One day is evening and morning until the end of days.

 

[atwhatcost]

yes!
& so when God said "let there be light"
how much light did He make? just 12 earth-hours?



i hope not to hurt anyone's faith - i just don't think it's as simple.. well, like when i first believed, it was a simple and childlike faith - and as i've grown up, it never ceases to grow deeper, even though it's still so simple. words fail, asdghlwekh!!

So, what's the other choice? Millennium of light? And then what? A millennium of dark? If so, when did a day change? 2nd day, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th?

Honestly, a basic concept of writing -- the first time you use a new word define it. He did. So, if he changed the definition, then he changed.

So simple a child can understand it. So sublime it can only be God.

 

[atwhatcost]

Amen, that was my first answer to his question as well, I don't need "web sites" to prove God to me, the Holy Spirit did that the day He saved me. Another HUGE problem I see with believing the earth is millions of years old aside from the plant thing (a very good point too in my opinion) is you would have to have death before the fall, a clear heresy from my point of view. I also don't believe God designed the bible to need a guru to explain to us what it means. I don't see millions of years in Genesis from simply reading it personally. If you have to go to the Hebrew, stand on your head, and squint one eye while looking at it from the right angle to get billions of years, then you are trying too hard to make it fit what you want it to say, in my opinion to avoid going against what the world says is fact to avoid ridicule.

It says exactly what it means, God is not the author of confusion. That's how I look at it, but that said I also don't think it should be made a divisive issue by any means, and Jesus should be the real focus in the grand scheme of things anyway. Only through Him are we given the Holy Spirit, and that's only way to any real truth anyway.

Just to be clear, I don't trust website because they can be changed. Books can't be without someone being able to prove it was changed. I'm not smart enough to go it alone. I need the help of many a Dead Guy. lol

 

[atwhatcost]

People miss the obvious. Instead of arguing over the length of a day, which has not changed since God created everything, it should be how long were Adam and Eve in Eden for? Did they age in Eden? had they not been kicked out, could they have spent eternity in Eden? It is not that difficult to say they spent 100,000 years in Eden.

Well, actually it is, since Adam lived to be something like 950 years old. Days are still days. Pregnancy still takes roughly nine months. They had a LOT of kids. lol

The only reason I'm not so sure about how old the earth is is because the NT account of Jesus' genealogy skipped some generations, so why can't the same thing be said of Adam's?