Young Earth Creation. Does it matter what you believe?

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trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#861
Aug 17, 2015
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resurrection33 said:
If he created a universe that was much younger than it appeared, he might have done it for a reason other than tricking us. And I have no problem with the Lord tricking me, if it's done for my own good. I don't equate that with lying.
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Yes, He can have reasons we dont know.
In that case I would just stick to probability and simplicity - looks old -> is old until proven otherwise.
Because we could say that nothing we actually see is truth for some reason... so in the end we could say nothing about anything real.

I can see your point, its surely possible. But in that case we have no certainity in anything, if God "masked" things to look what they are not, if you understand me.
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

Banned
#862
Dec 19, 2009
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trofimus said:
Yes, He can have reasons we dont know.
In that case I would just stick to probability and simplicity - looks old -> is old until proven otherwise.
Because we could say that nothing we actually see is truth for some reason... so in the end we could say nothing about anything real.

I can see your point, its surely possible. But in that case we have no certainity in anything, if God "masked" things to look what they are not, if you understand me.
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First of all, the Lord gave us commandments to follow. If we follow them, we will do just fine.

I think some of the Bible is allegorical. For instance, there are references in the Bible about being in water. I think the “water” is a description of what goes on in our minds:

He reached from on high, he took me,
he drew me out of many waters. Psalm 18:16 RSV
 
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Tintin

Guest
#863
#863
trofimus said:
Why would God create false signs of age like many simple life forms in the rock layers, ice layers, asteroids impact craters etc?
Earth is old or is not. Young earth with signs of billions of years... why?
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It's not the physical evidence that's the issue. It's the long-age/evolutionary presuppositions that lead to such conclusions that the earth is ancient. Also, a world-wide Flood would have done a heck of a lot of damage.
 
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Tintin

Guest
#864
#864
trofimus said:
I have seen many discussions and teachings and proofs of young earth crationism, old earth creationism, day-age theory, gap theory, theistic evolution etc. and their rebuttals.

I have come to conclusion that in these days we just dont know for sure, yet. We must wait for truth to be revealed. Bible can be interpreted in all these ways without losing your salvation.

Currently, I believe in an old Earth and young humanity, but if Abraham lived only several generations after such catastrophic flood,there would be really huge proofs of that... and they dont seem to be there. So we just need to wait. Truth will be revealed.
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Several generations? Abraham didn't live long after the Great Flood, but in the scheme of things, he was born 300-400 years later.
 
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Tintin

Guest
#865
#865
resurrection33 said:
Sometimes I wonder why the Lord would have waited around billions of years until earth was ready to support human life. That would support the idea everything happened just like the Bible said it happened. As for why the Lord would have made the earth appear to be millions of years old - well, if that's what he did, he had a good reason. Yes?
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The Bible says nothing that would suggest long, long ages during the Creation Week. That's nothing more than the evolutionary mindset creeping in (eisegesis).
 
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Tintin

Guest
#866
#866
resurrection33 said:
First of all, the Lord gave us commandments to follow. If we follow them, we will do just fine.

I think some of the Bible is allegorical. For instance, there are references in the Bible about being in water. I think the “water” is a description of what goes on in our minds:

He reached from on high, he took me,
he drew me out of many waters. Psalm 18:16 RSV
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There's a clear difference between figurative language (in your example above) and the historical narratives etc. found in the Bible.
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#867
Aug 17, 2015
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#867
Tintin said:
It's not the physical evidence that's the issue. It's the long-age/evolutionary presuppositions that lead to such conclusions that the earth is ancient. Also, a world-wide Flood would have done a heck of a lot of damage.
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Damage? Yes.
Layers of sediment from the simplest form of life to todays life forms all over the world? No. Flood would do really mess of everything, dinosaurs with cows, humans with trilobits etc. And it would be seen everywhere you look, not just one or two mixed layers that can originated by erosion.
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#868
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
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#868
Tintin said:
The Bible says nothing that would suggest long, long ages during the Creation Week. That's nothing more than the evolutionary mindset creeping in (eisegesis).
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Its certain that we work with some kind of cosmological mindset. Old Hebrew did (waters), old Greek did (chaos, Logos), we do.


Look at verses - Let the land produce vegetation, Let the land produce living creatures...

It seems to be a process.
 
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Tintin

Guest
#869
#869
trofimus said:
Its certain that we work with some kind of cosmological mindset. Old Hebrew did (waters), old Greek did (chaos, Logos), we do.


Look at verses - Let the land produce vegetation, Let the land produce living creatures...

It seems to be a process.
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That's not evolution though. Goo to you is evolution and completely unsubstantiated.
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#870
Aug 17, 2015
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#870
Tintin said:
That's not evolution though. Goo to you is evolution and completely unsubstantiated.
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Not sure If I got what you meant to say (your english).

How long does it take for a land to produce e.g. forest? One day? No. Could that be some kind of God's miracle? Maybe, but that bible does not say. It says - Land, you do it.


Its just all matter of view. And you are right, we all have some views in us. E.g. David in Psalms talks about waters above heavens or about life in waters under the earth.
In his view, waters were all around the earth and heavens. You can find some "scientific" explanation that there are waters under with life and it will be truth. But that is not what David had in mind.
 
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valiant

Senior Member
#871
Mar 22, 2015
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Tintin said:
The Bible says nothing that would suggest long, long ages during the Creation Week. That's nothing more than the evolutionary mindset creeping in (eisegesis).
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But it is equally eisegesis to read in a 24 hour day. The Creation account knows nothing of a 24 hour day. That is simply reading in what is not there. There is no indication in the account how long a yom was. it is bigotry which makes it a man day.
 
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valiant

Senior Member
#872
Mar 22, 2015
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#872
trofimus said:
Its certain that we work with some kind of cosmological mindset. Old Hebrew did (waters), old Greek did (chaos, Logos), we do.


Look at verses - Let the land produce vegetation, Let the land produce living creatures...

It seems to be a process.
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And the impression given by the account is of vegetation growing over a reasonable period of time, not within a 24 hour day.

But that won't satisfy the seven 'day' creationists. Everything has to fit into THEIR ideas.
 
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