Pride goes before destruction

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K

kennethcadwell

Guest
click the link in my signature to read my story of depression. Jason, that goes for you too.. :)

Thank you for sharing and I will try to find time to read it to my wife later.

I would have her read it but she also suffers from learning disorder as well, as she can not read very good and comprehend what is being said. When it comes to the bible I have to read it for her and then discuss what it said to her. This goes with any important papers as well that we have to constantly fill out about every 3 months. I have to read it to her and explain what it is saying to her because of her disorder.

God bless
 
D

DesiredHaven

Guest
Dear Desired Haven:

Thank you for your testimony. I suppose I needed to hear it from a fellow believer who believes as I do. But is it also possible for a person to be depressed as a part of one's choice to be depressed. I know I was depressed when I thought about suicide when I was in my high school years. For me, it was a choice and not a disease. But now, I can see how it can be both, though. Thank you for your words.
I too believe its possible to be depressed as a part of ones choice, and to be a faker, or not. I was sick (as I was) and it become a symptom of something physical rather then mental (be was wrongly disagnosed for the later). I was depressed when my daughter died at six years old, I never got up like David did but mourned for a very long time, in fact way past my time, (because there is a time to mourn, a time to weep) but that time was like two long years, I didnt think I would ever smile again. But I will admit I was rebelling in my thoughts and holding on to it, when I didnt have to (wanting to die) wanting to give up because I was really loving my daughter more then Jesus Christ, I am to love him more then her. There was a tie breaker (and that situation only revealed this to me). Something I couldnt see had it not been for her passing. (and my behavior), It wasnt for attention it because I wanted no one with me, and pushed everyone out of my life, but I know what I was doing (I was both mourning and sulking) and I was wrong.

But no matter, I understand. I will usually never change my mind on a thing if I feel someone is manipulating me with slippery questions (and insincereity) or if someone becomes unglued (acts overly offended) and up in my face and being irrational and rude. I just dont respond to that, I'll be nice, but the way they are behaving will likely cause me to question their view first (by their behavior, and offense) and I will likely dig my heels in further in respects to going any further with them in a discussion (inwardly I shut them off then).

You are entitled to your belief on such a thing and are far better off trusting the words of God (then anything I might say), Sometimes we might just see in part and need a little space put forth to us to change our minds if they need changing.

God bless you in Christ Jesus the Lord
 
Jan 7, 2015
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Infirmity of the flesh can be both physical and mental, with some being spiritual, which can be a direct consequence of sin, or bad choices we made in the past, or it could just be old age. But I would not say it is a direct choice to want to be afflicted of an infirmity, for who wants to suffer affliction by choice?
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I too believe its possible to be depressed as a part of ones choice, and to be a faker, or not. I was sick (as I was) and it become a symptom of something physical rather then mental (be was wrongly disagnosed for the later). I was depressed when my daughter died at six years old, I never got up like David did but mourned for a very long time, in fact way past my time, (because there is a time to mourn, a time to weep) but that time was like two long years, I didnt think I would ever smile again. But I will admit I was rebelling in my thoughts and holding on to it, when I didnt have to (wanting to die) wanting to give up because I was really loving my daughter more then Jesus Christ, I am to love him more then her. There was a tie breaker (and that situation only revealed this to me). Something I couldnt see had it not been for her passing. (and my behavior), It wasnt for attention it because I wanted no one with me, and pushed everyone out of my life, but I know what I was doing (I was both mourning and sulking) and I was wrong.

But no matter, I understand. I will usually never change my mind on a thing if I feel someone is manipulating me with slippery questions (and insincereity) or if someone becomes unglued (acts overly offended) and up in my face and being irrational and rude. I just dont respond to that, I'll be nice, but the way they are behaving will likely cause me to question their view first (by their behavior, and offense) and I will likely dig my heels in further in respects to going any further with them in a discussion (inwardly I shut them off then).

You are entitled to your belief on such a thing and are far better off trusting the words of God (then anything I might say), Sometimes we might just see in part and need a little space put forth to us to change our minds if they need changing.

God bless you in Christ Jesus the Lord
Sorry to hear that about your daughter..............
 
Jan 7, 2015
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I believe that is on the east coast and is near Cocoa Beach and Melborne.
Yeah, you got it, it's close to Cape Canaveral. I used to watch from my front yard the Apollo rockets and space shuttles take off from KSC, it was pretty cool. Peace. :)
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
Infirmity of the flesh can be both physical and mental, with some being spiritual, which can be a direct consequence of sin, or bad choices we made in the past, or it could just be old age. But I would not say it is a direct choice to want to be afflicted of an infirmity, for who wants to suffer affliction by choice?

Yes because if we are going to make everything a choice;

Then when I was playing softball 4 years ago and ran in from outfield to catch a pop fly, by running into the other out fielder I choose to break my collar bone.............................LOL

Sorry just had to calm myself down with a little joke !!!
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
I too believe its possible to be depressed as a part of ones choice, and to be a faker, or not. I was sick (as I was) and it become a symptom of something physical rather then mental (be was wrongly disagnosed for the later). I was depressed when my daughter died at six years old, I never got up like David did but mourned for a very long time, in fact way past my time, (because there is a time to mourn, a time to weep) but that time was like two long years, I didnt think I would ever smile again. But I will admit I was rebelling in my thoughts and holding on to it, when I didnt have to (wanting to die) wanting to give up because I was really loving my daughter more then Jesus Christ, I am to love him more then her. There was a tie breaker (and that situation only revealed this to me). Something I couldnt see had it not been for her passing. (and my behavior), It wasnt for attention it because I wanted no one with me, and pushed everyone out of my life, but I know what I was doing (I was both mourning and sulking) and I was wrong.

But no matter, I understand. I will usually never change my mind on a thing if I feel someone is manipulating me with slippery questions (and insincereity) or if someone becomes unglued (acts overly offended) and up in my face and being irrational and rude. I just dont respond to that, I'll be nice, but the way they are behaving will likely cause me to question their view first (by their behavior, and offense) and I will likely dig my heels in further in respects to going any further with them in a discussion (inwardly I shut them off then).

You are entitled to your belief on such a thing and are far better off trusting the words of God (then anything I might say), Sometimes we might just see in part and need a little space put forth to us to change our minds if they need changing.

God bless you in Christ Jesus the Lord

Sorry to hear about your daughter, I can just imagine how tough it was on you....
 
Jan 7, 2015
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Yes because if we are going to make everything a choice;

Then when I was playing softball 4 years ago and ran in from outfield to catch a pop fly, by running into the other out fielder I choose to break my collar bone.............................LOL

Sorry just had to calm myself down with a little joke !!!
I'd be happy to pray for your wife if you like Ken, as I'm sure others here would as well. Do mind if I ask for her first name?
 
D

DesiredHaven

Guest
Yes and I thank you for sharing your testimony as well to show that depression is not a choice.
I know some people can get down and be drawn in to a major spell of sadness to where they start having all kinds of bad thoughts for that period do to the effects of ones surroundings.

But the true mental disorder of depression that I am speaking on and experience from my wife who has it, is that it is not a choice nor does it have to have surrounding influences to bring on a spell. What set me off was he saying it was a choice and put it in the same boat as one who will be condemned. I know first hand my wife is going to heaven for she believes in God and our Lord Jesus Christ, and we discuss the bible a lot.

If that depression gets the better of her one day, which I constantly pray to God that it won't, but if it does and she does go that far of a point of no return. I believe and know our Lord will have mercy on her and grant her a place in heaven. For He is not going to hold a mental disorder over on a person, and I truly believe He uses situations like my wife for examples to make how we love one another better.

For it is not just the easy times that we are to love, show mercy, and forgive, but even in the most difficult situations we are still to hold on to that love, mercy, and forgiveness to all !!!
I am sorry to hear this Bro, I do understand, I have a family on prozac, two sucessful suicides and a sister who attempted the same twice and two other sisters who have been hospitalized for it a father who is the same (and an alcoholic) and a mother who has just lost 60 ponds and has an attending physician for the same.

I have a really mentally messed up family, I do get it though, I have been surrounded by it all of my life.

But I still dont get offended at how someone might regard it because I dont lord over their faith regardless whether it is my family or myself it shouldnt matter if someone feels its a choice (somewhere) in their own understanding is all. I shouldnt get offended at that is what I am saying.

And one thing I know about Jason (even though he might believe that) is I never found him to be without compassion, although he was being accused of that according to how he might believe this thing I have always found him to be very warm and loving in private.

I find you to be one of the more kinder and easier to speak with then most here also (although I might not be such a great conversationalist). But I wouldnt advise (even through the eyes of your own experience) to hold Jason to seeing it as less of a choice (then he does at this moment) simply because you do. The testimony of men shouldnt be what he accepts (regardless where I even stand in the matter). I dont think its right to make him believe us that it is not a choice (or ban him) if he feels in good conscience that God's testimony stands at odds with our own.

I dont get offended at that at all, even though I am close to this situation myself, I am sorry for any pain your wife is going through, and let us all keep one anothers familiys in each others prayers, hows that?

God bless you in Christ Jesus our Lord Bro
 
Jul 22, 2014
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I am sorry to hear this Bro, I do understand, I have a family on prozac, two sucessful suicides and a sister who attempted the same twice and two other sisters who have been hospitalized for it a father who is the same (and an alcoholic) and a mother who has just lost 60 ponds and has an attending physician for the same.

I have a really mentally messed up family, I do get it though, I have been surrounded by it all of my life.

But I still dont get offended at how someone might regard it because I dont lord over their faith regardless whether it is my family or myself it shouldnt matter if someone feels its a choice (somewhere) in their own understanding is all. I shouldnt get offended at that is what I am saying.

And one thing I know about Jason (even though he might believe that) is I never found him to be without compassion, although he was being accused of that according to how he might believe this thing I have always found him to be very warm and loving in private.

I find you to be one of the more kinder and easier to speak with then most here also (although I might not be such a great conversationalist). But I wouldnt advise (even through the eyes of your own experience) to hold Jason to seeing it as less of a choice (then he does at this moment) simply because you do. The testimony of men shouldnt be what he accepts (regardless where I even stand in the matter). I dont think its right to make him believe us that it is not a choice (or ban him) if he feels in good conscience that God's testimony stands at odds with our own.

I dont get offended at that at all, even though I am close to this situation myself, I am sorry for any pain your wife is going through, and let us all keep one anothers familiys in each others prayers, hows that?

God bless you in Christ Jesus our Lord Bro
Thank you again for your words Desired Haven and for opening up about your heart and intimate experience on this situation. It is much appreciated. I am thankful for your words for me to keep with the Word of God. So I did some more digging and there is also the possibility that people are vexed by dark spirits (to feel that way), too.

Depression Is a Spirit – It Must Be Fought with the Word of God | HopeFaithPrayer

Whatever the reason why people are truly deppressed, I know Jesus is always the answer.

Anyways, thank you so much for your loving kindness and fair judgment.
May God bless you more than you can imagine.
 

Reborn

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2014
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I too believe its possible to be depressed as a part of ones choice, and to be a faker, or not. I was sick (as I was) and it become a symptom of something physical rather then mental (be was wrongly disagnosed for the later). I was depressed when my daughter died at six years old, I never got up like David did but mourned for a very long time, in fact way past my time, (because there is a time to mourn, a time to weep) but that time was like two long years, I didnt think I would ever smile again. But I will admit I was rebelling in my thoughts and holding on to it, when I didnt have to (wanting to die) wanting to give up because I was really loving my daughter more then Jesus Christ, I am to love him more then her. There was a tie breaker (and that situation only revealed this to me). Something I couldnt see had it not been for her passing. (and my behavior), It wasnt for attention it because I wanted no one with me, and pushed everyone out of my life, but I know what I was doing (I was both mourning and sulking) and I was wrong.

But no matter, I understand. I will usually never change my mind on a thing if I feel someone is manipulating me with slippery questions (and insincereity) or if someone becomes unglued (acts overly offended) and up in my face and being irrational and rude. I just dont respond to that, I'll be nice, but the way they are behaving will likely cause me to question their view first (by their behavior, and offense) and I will likely dig my heels in further in respects to going any further with them in a discussion (inwardly I shut them off then).

You are entitled to your belief on such a thing and are far better off trusting the words of God (then anything I might say), Sometimes we might just see in part and need a little space put forth to us to change our minds if they need changing.

God bless you in Christ Jesus the Lord

Sorry to hear this.
Sorry about ....well, everything.

Take care, DH.
 
D

DesiredHaven

Guest
Thank you again for your words Desired Haven and for opening up about your heart and intimate experience on this situation. It is much appreciated. I am thankful for your words for me to keep with the Word of God. So I did some more digging and there is also the possibility that people are vexed by dark spirits (to feel that way), too.

Depression Is a Spirit – It Must Be Fought with the Word of God | HopeFaithPrayer

Whatever the reason why people are truly deppressed, I know Jesus is always the answer.

Anyways, thank you so much for your loving kindness and fair judgment.
May God bless you more than you can imagine.
Thank you Jason that was very thoughtful of you, God bless you Bro
 
Jul 22, 2014
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Scripture on conquering deppression:

Psalms 9:9
– The Lord is a refuge for the oppressed, a stronghold in times of trouble.

Psalm 27:14 – Wait on the LORD: be of good courage, and He shall strengthen thine heart: wait, I say, on the LORD.

Psalm 34:18, 19 – The LORD is close to the brokenhearted and saves those who are crushed in spirit. (19) A righteous man may have many troubles, but the Lord delivers him from them all.

Psalm 37:23-24 – If the Lord delights in a man’s way, he makes his steps firm; though he stumbles, he will not fall, for the Lord upholds him with his hand.

Psalm 43:5 – Why are you downcast, O my soul? Why so disturbed within me? Put your hope in God.

Psalm 55:22 – Cast your cares on the Lord and he will sustain you; he will never let the righteous fall.

Psalm 62:5 – Find rest, O my soul, in God alone; my hope comes from him.

Psalm 126:5 – Those who sow in tears will reap with songs of joy.

Psalm 147:3 – He heals the brokenhearted and binds up their wounds.

Psalm 145:14 – The LORD upholds all those who fall and lifts up all who are bowed down.

Proverbs 12:25 – Anxiety in a man’s heart weighs it down (depression), but a good word cheers it up.

Isaiah 35:10 – And the ransomed of the Lord will return. They will enter Zion with singing; everlasting joy will crown their heads. Gladness and joy will overtake them, and sorrow and sighing will flee away.

Isaiah 40:31, But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

Isaiah 53:4 – Surely he took up our sicknesses and carried our sorrows.

Mark 9:23 – Everything is possible for him who believes.

Romans 15:13 – May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.

II Corinthians 7:6-7 – Nevertheless God, that comforts, those that are depressed, comforted us by the coming of Titus; (7) And not by his coming only, but by the consolation wherewith he was comforted in you, when he told us your earnest desire, your mourning, your fervent mind toward me; so that I rejoiced the more.

Philippians 4:6-7 – Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

James 4:8 – Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.

James 4:10 – Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.

2 Peter 2:9 – The Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials.

1 Peter 4:12 – Dear Friends, do not be surprised at the painful trial you are suffering, as though something strange were happening to you.

1 Peter 4:13 – But rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed

1 Peter 5:7 – Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you.


Source:
Scriptures Against Depression | HopeFaithPrayer
 
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Dec 1, 2014
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Your right He did not forsake me, but for that time I turned my back on Him.

This is the area the Holy Spirit is working through me to get acrossed to others, as God will never forsake us, and when we turn our back on Him then we have walked away from that grace He has shown us. If we return to Him then and only then does our souls become saved again unto salvation. James 5:19-20 clearly shows this standard, and I posted a few posts back from the Strong's Greek how the usage of soul is used in this passage. It clearly is saving their soul from eternal death in the lake of fire......For a person can not serve flesh and God both, as this is clearly stated no less then 3 times in the bible !!!

(God: Joshua 24:15........Lord Jesus: Matthew 6:24...........Apostle Paul: Romans 6:16)
This is your mistake, and I say that lovingly. We don't return to God on our own accord, but rather, God brings us back according to His good will. That being the case, He chooses us, thus we're never out of His saving grace.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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I am sorry to hear this Bro, I do understand, I have a family on prozac, two sucessful suicides and a sister who attempted the same twice and two other sisters who have been hospitalized for it a father who is the same (and an alcoholic) and a mother who has just lost 60 ponds and has an attending physician for the same.
I know a little of what you are saying. My family has had its share of mental illness or as I am coming to be more aware of emotional weakness and lack of self knowledge. I have spent years talking to a patient about their delusions, and realised it was destroying me, because I was being sucked into an emotional whirlwind that got stronger the more justification I gave it.

What has worked for my children is an emotional sand-box, where any feelings can be shared, and responded to appropriately, so we all know where we are and what is going on in each other. And my conclusion about this adventure in life, it works, it helps everyone stay in touch with who they really are, and emotions are not a circus where we are not the ring master, and depressants are the only way to bring order.

Two years of mourning is healthy, good, in fact a small time. When my father died when I was 23, the pain was still there 10 years later, and I did not know him well, but he mattered very deeply to me. It is in acknowledging the reality of how we feel, and letting the feeling express themselves that we become real. For many when emotional reactions are very repressed, such strong open emotion can become their defining view on life, which it did for Queen Victoria.

It is interesting the link made by the OP, pride before a fall.
The sub text appears to be, by being filled with the Holy Spirit the pride of self righteousness is burst, so people let in the Lord to minister.

Now this assumes that christians are self-righteous hypocrites, who need the Holy Spirit to work in their lives.
My take on most christians, is they are struggling sinners, who are trying to make sense of this struggle and being spiritual.
It is true Saul / Paul, was self righteous, a killer of christians because he believed he was right in Gods law.

The message being preached in too many "Spirit" lead churches is the non "Spirit" lead congregations are pharisees, only puffed up in their own goodness. Now for some this maybe true, but not for me. Rather I am the opposite, a sinner trying to make sense of the Lords revelation. But when I share this, no I am also wrong, because I should be a victorious Spirit empowered conquerer who does not know failure, because failure is a lie of the pit, even though they admit it is true.

The context truly is, the spiritual experience they have had in Jesus defines them, so everyone else must have it, and then the church will be perfect, except it won't, but that does not matter, because this experience is everything.

Now my experience is my heart lifted when I saw Jesus come to earth, and die for me, and everyday, it bring reality to my heart. I have had people lay hands on me, spoken in tongues, but still this is nothing compared to the reality of Jesus and the cross. So what I have experienced is not the same as these people and they regard me as an enemy, which I find odd, because I believe what they believe, but maybe they do not. Could it be something else is at work here.

If you are accused of being self righteous, the real response is saying why are you saying this? Where is my trust and where is my hypocracy? If you can find none, then the speaker is mistaken. But that reality is too much for them, literally. So they become the accuser of the bretheren, which is a bad place to be.

I suspect this is the real intent of this thread and its fruit. I await to be corrected, because I am 100% open to correction, but do not expect I will necessarily agree, but I welcome, applaud contributions, because I need to be refined.
 
S

Sirk

Guest
How can a person effect positive change in their life

The person must desire to change - the big Yes! Matthew 13:44-46
(generally this initial motivation for change will come when a person realizes that they are about to lose something of great value)

The person must posses an agent of change. (2 Corinthians 5:!7)
(we believe that the only true agent of change is the Holy Spirit at conversion)

Fo positive change to occur and persist the person will generally need to attack 3 areas of weakness in their life

1) The external (Matthew 6:33) Change ones priorities to obtain margin
2)The physical (1 Corinthians 6:19) Improving ones diet, exercise and rest
3)the spiritual (Psalm 139:23-24) Addressing ones sin

The person must be "intentional" (1 Corinthians 9:24-27)
There needs to be a plan with well defined goals

The person needs to be "disciplined" (Matthew 5:37)
he or she must have the integrity to follow thru with their plan

The person will need support (Ephesians 5:21)
he or she will need the accountability of Godly friends.

"Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches. Those who remain in me and I in them, will produce much fruit. For apart from me you can do nothing."