My Last Time of Dealing with "Disability/Illness is Unbelief" Posts

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atwhatcost

Guest
#1
I'm tired of swatting one fly at a time, so consider this my mongo fly swatter for all those who think illness/disability/bad health is some kind of negative to God. Here's something I wrote ten years ago, and I still believe it now.

Thorn in the Flesh

“You are in pain because you have unrepentant sin. You don’t trust God enough to be healed. God wants to heal everyone, so it is your fault you are in pain. Repent. Believe. You will be healed.”

Imagine my shock, after suddenly become disabled, hearing these words from people I considered friends. A believer for 33 years, I am no longer able to go to church because I cannot sit up straight for over an hour. My social life is, at best, limited, so I went online to chat rooms. I used to go to a Christian chat room all the time, but when hit with the words written above, I was too hurt and too exhausted to correct these lies from people I considered my family in Christ. In my new chat room of other disabled people, I met many Christians, who have heard the same words and have left the church because of them.

Now is the time to expose these lies and hopefully, to teach others to be more loving, because of the love God has given to us.

You are in pain because you have unrepentant sin.

If pain is from unrepentant sin, then why didn’t the Apostles tell their good friends to repent when they were sick? When Paul wrote to Timothy, he told him to use a little wine because of his stomach and frequent illnesses. (1 Tim 5:23) Paul didn’t tell Timothy to repent to get rid of his stomach problems. And Paul left Trophimus sick in Miletus. (2 Tim 4:20) Why didn’t he just tell him to repent?

If pain is from unrepentant sin, then why did the early Christians suffer from beatings, and imprisonment and loss of physical health? (Acts 14:21-22, Acts 20:23, 2 Cor.1:8, 2 Cor. 6:4-10, Rev. 2:3) Was this from God as a punishment?

If God has taught us that all diseases, disabilities and health problems are from unrepentant sin, then why would he curse people who let blind people go astray? (Deut 27:18) Shouldn’t he have told the people to tell the blind person to repent?

If pain, disease and illness are from unrepentant sin, then wasn’t God wrong for letting Satan afflict Job, “a righteous man”? (Job 2:2-7)

Yes, there is sickness, pain and disease because of sin. (Gen. 12:17, Duet. 28:15-29, 2 Chron. 21:13-15, Acts 12:23) It is quite possible that I have this pain because of sin, even though I ask forgiveness often. Then again, I also know that there are many healthy people, who have never repented. Now that is truly sad.

You don’t trust God enough to be healed.

This one makes me smile for a few reasons. First, would someone please make up his or her mind? Is this disorder I have caused by unrepentant sin, not trusting God enough, or because God is too weak to heal me without my say-so? Second, if trusting God to be healed is a requirement, then how did those dead people, including Lazarus, come back to life? (Matt. 9:23-24, Mark 5:36-42, Luke 7:12-15, John 11:11-45)

Jesus said, “I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you." (Matt 17:20)

I admit to being a Doubting Thomas, believing little unless I see it for myself, but I have had 33 years with the Lord, not all of it following easily. I know for sure that Jesus is he is who he said he is -– God -- and his words have not failed me. I can’t tell you how large my faith is, but I can assure you that it is, at least, the size of a mustard seed – God working in my life, despite me.

There is a debate going on that cannot be resolved until we meet Jesus face-to-face, about what Paul’s thorn in the flesh was. (2 Cor. 12:7-10) One of the theories is that it was a physical disability and if you read it carefully, there is nothing to say it couldn’t be. If you consider the amount of events in Paul’s life – beatings, imprisonment, shipwrecked, and living in the elements on long pilgrimages – it surely seems quite plausible. Then again, obviously I have a good chance of being extremely biased here, so I won’t say that it could not be something else. No matter what that thorn was, it obviously was a great weakness that Paul, a man of great faith, asked God to remove three times, before getting an answer that apparently was clear enough to him to know that God wanted him to live with it.

I have never met a Christian with a sickness or disability that has not only asked God for himself or herself, but has asked friends, families and elders in the church, to pray to be healthy again. I read a sign at the place where I have my blood tests done most the time that said, “Health is a crown that only the unhealthy see.” I admit to taking my health for granted, back when I was relatively healthy. I use to thank God for being healthy, despite not really understanding how bad unhealthy can get. I have also seen God heal people of different deformities and diseases. I have had the experience of being healed by God from a reoccurring urinary tract infection that I had every other month for two years and never cleared up except with the use of antibiotics. After I was miraculously healed, I have only had it about five times in the last 23 years. I know the true and deep blessing of God healing me. I know the deep blessing of health. I had hundreds of people praying that I recover from what I have now and if he ever says, “Yes,” I will shout it from the rooftops. As it stands now, God has not healed me. I’m not saying he never will, but as of yet, his answer is, at least, “Not yet.”

I have never met a disabled Christian who does not believe like I believe. We trust God to heal, when he says, “be healed,” not by our will, but by his will.

God wants to heal everyone, so it is your fault you are in pain.

God is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, and holy. These are not mere words. Think deeply on what those words mean. God can do anything he wants whenever he wants and neither Satan nor mere human beings can thwart him on his plan. God has but one goal and is working it out perfectly. God will have himself a people that worship him and love him. Whomever he calls to himself will come and be saved. (John 6:35-40) If God’s will is to heal me, even if I were stupid enough to say, “No,” he will heal me, even if he has to put me through much to get me to that point where I want to be healed. (Jonah)

I want to be healed. I tried everything available to me to be miraculously healed or to be medically healed. I still check in, occasionally, with a specialist to see if anything new is available to help me. Doctors have told me that the best they can do for me is to try to lessen my pain. They have lessened it already, but it has merely gone from unbearable, in tears, rocking back and forth pain to I can’t do very much, but I’m not crying pain.

There is something else I want, even if I’m never healed in this life. I want not to have to fight my brothers and sisters in Christ and to know that we are all accepted through Jesus Christ’s blood. I want people to understand that I do still sin, but God is working on me. I want to be loved in Christ even with this weak body that can’t seem to get out of my way, to walk side by side with my brothers and sisters in Christ, to learn all the things God has to show us of his glory and his beauty. And I don’t want to have constantly to feel as if I am the only sinner in the group. We are saved by faith, Jesus’ faith. It is God’s doing that we are saved, loved and brought to where we are right now. Sometimes he takes me where I don’t want to go, but, in the end, like my favorite prophet in the Bible, Jonah, he gets me where he wants me to be, even if I go the hard way.

“For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men. Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.” Rom 14:18-19

Nuff said?
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
41,304
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Tennessee
#2
I understand full well about what you have written. A Christian would have to be very ignorant to say that stuff to those who are hurting or sick. Or maybe that Christian is just mean spirited. My late wife suffered from debilitating arthritis and psoriasis since the age of 9. She had to endure a lot of abusive talk from her family like what you have written about. Like I have said, there is a lot of mean spirited ignorant Christians who don't have a clue about sickness and pain.
 
May 30, 2015
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#3
Sin in the world is the reason why Christians have to deal with sickness or disability. It isn't necessarily true that any of them have unrepentant sin at all, although many diseases come from a root of unforgiveness or bitterness of heart over time. However, healing is ours in Christ, in His atonement. It isn't always a spontaneous healing, but recovery is ours in Christ by faith, and by prayer and the laying on of hands. We need to never give up believing that healing is ours in Christ. Many do, however by their words reveal lack of faith by saying, "I prayed and had people pray over me but nothing happened!" But they forget to add, "...yet!"

It is by His stripes we are healed. Every disease known to man was nailed on that cross and manifested on Jesus' body. He is so worthy of our faith and trust! God is good for His promises!

Yes, people become disabled and suffer deficits in their formerly robust health, but despite certain inabilities to perform as they did, God blesses His people with wholeness in general. My husband suffered a massive brain hemorrhage two years ago, and he is as healthy as a horse, and his only deficit is a minor speech problem and he can no longer read. The neurosurgeon said he is amazed that he actually can live at home, because other patients he has had with the same kind of brain event never go home again, but live out their lives in a nursing facility. Is my husband free from the effects of his hemorrhage? No. He has this chronic disability. But he is a whole man, and functions physically as he ever did before, praise Jesus! Jesus Christ carried us through, and protected and preserved him through the entire ordeal. This is typical of God's great hand of provision and blessing and favour for His children.

Gratefulness to the Lord Jesus Christ is our song, as He is our great and living Hope!
 
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Dec 1, 2014
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#5
I was deeply touched by your words of wisdom and I like how you used biblical scriptures and examples. GOD has blessed you with the gifts of knowledge and teaching for sure. I must say that I am one who does believe in GOD's Supernatural touch, healing and deliverance, but I never put myself into your shoes and looked at it through your eyes. WOW...what a holy spirit moment that hit me when I read this. I follow John G. Lake's and Smith Wigglesworth's ideas on healings. They see ailments, diseases and pain as being demonically induced. This does not mean that the person is demonic, but that old satan is nearby to carry this further and cause doubt, confusion, frustration and resentment in the mind of the person who is inflicted, causing them to question, to doubt and even turn away from GOD. I will try to find a way to keep this post available as a reference so I can use it to console and help others in the future. THANKYOU!!!!!
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
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#6
Some of the dearest saints of God I have known had great suffering in their lives. They were comforted by the Lord. In our weakness His strength is perfected.

If one never experiences pain how will they know joy? Great testimonies for Christ and souls reached that otherwise would never have been open to the word have come through the way Christians suffer for the Lord. The lost complain and get bitter but the saint of God looks at the Savior and rejoices even in great sorrow.

Proverbs 30:8 feed me with food convenient for me.

Job 1:22 In all this Job sinned not nor charged Cod foolishly.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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atwhatcost

Guest
#7
Sin in the world is the reason why Christians have to deal with sickness or disability. It isn't necessarily true that any of them have unrepentant sin at all, although many diseases come from a root of unforgiveness or bitterness of heart over time. However, healing is ours in Christ, in His atonement. It isn't always a spontaneous healing, but recovery is ours in Christ by faith, and by prayer and the laying on of hands. We need to never give up believing that healing is ours in Christ. Many do, however by their words reveal lack of faith by saying, "I prayed and had people pray over me but nothing happened!" But they forget to add, "...yet!"

It is by His stripes we are healed. Every disease known to man was nailed on that cross and manifested on Jesus' body. He is so worthy of our faith and trust! God is good for His promises!

Yes, people become disabled and suffer deficits in their formerly robust health, but despite certain inabilities to perform as they did, God blesses His people with wholeness in general. My husband suffered a massive brain hemorrhage two years ago, and he is as healthy as a horse, and his only deficit is a minor speech problem and he can no longer read. The neurosurgeon said he is amazed that he actually can live at home, because other patients he has had with the same kind of brain event never go home again, but live out their lives in a nursing facility. Is my husband free from the effects of his hemorrhage? No. He has this chronic disability. But he is a whole man, and functions physically as he ever did before, praise Jesus! Jesus Christ carried us through, and protected and preserved him through the entire ordeal. This is typical of God's great hand of provision and blessing and favour for His children.

Gratefulness to the Lord Jesus Christ is our song, as He is our great and living Hope!
Not being able to read is not "functions physically as he ever did." I know this because hubby used to study the Word four hours a night, and now his disabilities limits him to maybe - on a good day - 15 minutes, which didn't even get him to full hilt previously. He can't focus as well as he used to and he is forever exasperated by this.

Chemo caused some of hubby's disabilities, but others were simply hidden during chemo, so left untreated for too long. The chemo made him so sick I'd have to go to my room to cry because I hurt for him so, and couldn't do a thing to fix it. (If I cried in front of him, he'd cry too and crying, when you hurt, just makes the hurt worse.) When it was over, I thought he'd bounce back and go to work again. We're very open to each other, so I told him that often. But he wasn't bouncing back. I started wondering what was going on the day he said, "I can't go to work. I don't know what's wrong. I assumed, like you do, that I could, but I can't."

Shocked me to my core. Then I had to do what he was already doing -- deal with the reality, instead of how I wanted it to be.

I bring this up because it sounds like you're willing your hubby to be all better, and he might well be dying a little inside every time you tell him he's fine, when he knows he's not fine. Better, but not fine.
 
May 30, 2015
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#8
Not being able to read is not "functions physically as he ever did." I know this because hubby used to study the Word four hours a night, and now his disabilities limits him to maybe - on a good day - 15 minutes, which didn't even get him to full hilt previously. He can't focus as well as he used to and he is forever exasperated by this.

Chemo caused some of hubby's disabilities, but others were simply hidden during chemo, so left untreated for too long. The chemo made him so sick I'd have to go to my room to cry because I hurt for him so, and couldn't do a thing to fix it. (If I cried in front of him, he'd cry too and crying, when you hurt, just makes the hurt worse.) When it was over, I thought he'd bounce back and go to work again. We're very open to each other, so I told him that often. But he wasn't bouncing back. I started wondering what was going on the day he said, "I can't go to work. I don't know what's wrong. I assumed, like you do, that I could, but I can't."

Shocked me to my core. Then I had to do what he was already doing -- deal with the reality, instead of how I wanted it to be.

I bring this up because it sounds like you're willing your hubby to be all better, and he might well be dying a little inside every time you tell him he's fine, when he knows he's not fine. Better, but not fine.
My will has nothing to do with what is happening to my husband. This is all God's will and His perfect hand of provision at work. I am grateful that he isn't a vegetable, and despite the fact that he cannot work, and our income is greatly diminished, God gives us more than enough of His strength to live each and every day. I don't have to tell him he's fine. He knows he is and we both are very thankful to God. That doesn't mean that in his humanness that my husband doesn't grieve the losses in his everyday life, but being his wife and both of us knowing that God is our source of all things, we can turn to him together and allow the Lord to comfort us in His word and by His Spirit, and pick us up and put us back on our feet with right thinking and a renewed courage.

I don't know how people who do not know Jesus do it. My heart goes out to you in your situation, and I am going to pray for you both, today.
 
L

ladylynn

Guest
#9
2014 TV Broadcasts - Week 8 - Andrew Wommack Ministries

Incase you didn't finish listening to the first I sincerely hope you listen to this 2nd attachment here. The hard questions people ask who are suffering and who hope to find out about what is healing under the new covenant.

And I also hope you listen to the rest of the messages on healing here. I sincerely hope you take the time to listen. Lord bless you. Lynn
 
A

atwhatcost

Guest
#10
2014 TV Broadcasts - Week 8 - Andrew Wommack Ministries




I'd encourage you to listen to this and the rest of the messages. I'm just beginning to learn about what healing is and what the bible says about it. God bless you.
A quote from his website complete with the underlining to show how important it is to him:
God has already placed His healing power within us, and it is now under our authority. It isn’t up to God to determine who receives healing; it’s up to us!

I already covered that in my article. No thanks.

I was willing to have a doctor shove his hands into my bellybutton to feel the inside of my spine. I was willing to do 10 different utterly-ridiculous diets. I was willing to try and get every single particle of dust out of my house, (although I was unwilling to hermetically seal my bedroom to live there for three weeks to see if that worked.) I was wiling to have the same camera that is shoved up peoples' rectums for colonoscopies shoved down my throat clear through my stomach, into my duodenum, and up passed my common duct straight to my liver eight times. I was willing to have a doctor put botox in my LES three times. I was willing to drink the barium milkshake twice and have a third one shoved up my rear end. I was willing to get a shot in my back even after the first time I did that it felt like someone smashed me in the back with a 2 X 4 for three days.

But that's where I draw my line. I am unwilling to do something that can only be done by bypassing God through a man's determined knowledge instead of God's determined knowledge.

You're not learning God's ways. You're learning some guy's ways. Even Paul ran into a sorceress who told the truth, yet he still shut her up because she was a hindrance. Even Pharaoh's magicians could turn the water into blood. It's not like ungodly things can't, at times, do things it seems only God can do. It's about knowing where that thing came from.

I'd rather be fully paralyzed and get Third Stage dementia than do anything apart from God. After all, he gives me eternity to worship him. Those others only give a little while of health before an eternity of darkness.
 

Joidevivre

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2014
3,838
271
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#11
People get old and get infirm. The bodies wear out. Things happen. It is all about His grace to endure what we need to endure. And sometimes His grace brings us back to health "for awhile". We all die of something in the end.

My husband is 84 - had strokes and is now suffering the effects of them. We both believe in healing, yet there is another reality: Trials that might need to be passed through for reasons only the Lord knows.

I'm not sure what my husband is learning, but I'm slowly changing into a less selfish person. More compassionate and giving. More aware of the joys just a moment can bring. He is also more reflective during this time - talking about our marriage. I'm glad that God arranged it so there is a season of "A time to die". There is value in that also.
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
14,551
2,171
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#12
Why don't people believe what Jesus said to His disciples when they asked who sinned? The crazy part to me is that people still seem to do it today. Like it is the person who sick's fault for being sick and not because we live on a sinful planet. Sometimes God says no to healing.

Sure if you smoked cigarettes and you ended up with cancer you probably had a big part in that illness but not all illnesses are the persons fault.... Genetics can play a part....my family tree is full of massive heart attacks and cancer... So is it my sin if I end up dying from one or the other? NO!!!

I appreciate your OP and am so sorry for the self righteous folks who evidently have good health and no understanding that sometimes bad illnesses happen to Godly people that don't get healed.

John 9:1As He passed by, He saw a man blind from birth. 2And His disciples asked Him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind?" 3Jesus answered, "It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so that the works of God might be displayed.

As I wrote in another post.....Paul must not have had enough faith to be healed even though he asked three times for the thorn to be removed from the illness or poor eye sight..... God said NO!!! In weakness is God's strength revealed..... Paul was not healed and Paul had FAITH, TRUST AND ASKED for the healing......

Sometimes I just want to say to these folks in love of course.....just BACK OFF!!!
 
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C

chancer

Guest
#13
I'm tired of swatting one fly at a time, so consider this my mongo fly swatter for all those who think illness/disability/bad health is some kind of negative to God. Here's something I wrote ten years ago, and I still believe it now.

Thorn in the Flesh

“You are in pain because you have unrepentant sin. You don’t trust God enough to be healed. God wants to heal everyone, so it is your fault you are in pain. Repent. Believe. You will be healed.”

Imagine my shock, after suddenly become disabled, hearing these words from people I considered friends. A believer for 33 years, I am no longer able to go to church because I cannot sit up straight for over an hour. My social life is, at best, limited, so I went online to chat rooms. I used to go to a Christian chat room all the time, but when hit with the words written above, I was too hurt and too exhausted to correct these lies from people I considered my family in Christ. In my new chat room of other disabled people, I met many Christians, who have heard the same words and have left the church because of them.

Now is the time to expose these lies and hopefully, to teach others to be more loving, because of the love God has given to us.

You are in pain because you have unrepentant sin.

If pain is from unrepentant sin, then why didn’t the Apostles tell their good friends to repent when they were sick? When Paul wrote to Timothy, he told him to use a little wine because of his stomach and frequent illnesses. (1 Tim 5:23) Paul didn’t tell Timothy to repent to get rid of his stomach problems. And Paul left Trophimus sick in Miletus. (2 Tim 4:20) Why didn’t he just tell him to repent?

If pain is from unrepentant sin, then why did the early Christians suffer from beatings, and imprisonment and loss of physical health? (Acts 14:21-22, Acts 20:23, 2 Cor.1:8, 2 Cor. 6:4-10, Rev. 2:3) Was this from God as a punishment?

If God has taught us that all diseases, disabilities and health problems are from unrepentant sin, then why would he curse people who let blind people go astray? (Deut 27:18) Shouldn’t he have told the people to tell the blind person to repent?

If pain, disease and illness are from unrepentant sin, then wasn’t God wrong for letting Satan afflict Job, “a righteous man”? (Job 2:2-7)

Yes, there is sickness, pain and disease because of sin. (Gen. 12:17, Duet. 28:15-29, 2 Chron. 21:13-15, Acts 12:23) It is quite possible that I have this pain because of sin, even though I ask forgiveness often. Then again, I also know that there are many healthy people, who have never repented. Now that is truly sad.

You don’t trust God enough to be healed.

This one makes me smile for a few reasons. First, would someone please make up his or her mind? Is this disorder I have caused by unrepentant sin, not trusting God enough, or because God is too weak to heal me without my say-so? Second, if trusting God to be healed is a requirement, then how did those dead people, including Lazarus, come back to life? (Matt. 9:23-24, Mark 5:36-42, Luke 7:12-15, John 11:11-45)

Jesus said, “I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you." (Matt 17:20)

I admit to being a Doubting Thomas, believing little unless I see it for myself, but I have had 33 years with the Lord, not all of it following easily. I know for sure that Jesus is he is who he said he is -– God -- and his words have not failed me. I can’t tell you how large my faith is, but I can assure you that it is, at least, the size of a mustard seed – God working in my life, despite me.

There is a debate going on that cannot be resolved until we meet Jesus face-to-face, about what Paul’s thorn in the flesh was. (2 Cor. 12:7-10) One of the theories is that it was a physical disability and if you read it carefully, there is nothing to say it couldn’t be. If you consider the amount of events in Paul’s life – beatings, imprisonment, shipwrecked, and living in the elements on long pilgrimages – it surely seems quite plausible. Then again, obviously I have a good chance of being extremely biased here, so I won’t say that it could not be something else. No matter what that thorn was, it obviously was a great weakness that Paul, a man of great faith, asked God to remove three times, before getting an answer that apparently was clear enough to him to know that God wanted him to live with it.

I have never met a Christian with a sickness or disability that has not only asked God for himself or herself, but has asked friends, families and elders in the church, to pray to be healthy again. I read a sign at the place where I have my blood tests done most the time that said, “Health is a crown that only the unhealthy see.” I admit to taking my health for granted, back when I was relatively healthy. I use to thank God for being healthy, despite not really understanding how bad unhealthy can get. I have also seen God heal people of different deformities and diseases. I have had the experience of being healed by God from a reoccurring urinary tract infection that I had every other month for two years and never cleared up except with the use of antibiotics. After I was miraculously healed, I have only had it about five times in the last 23 years. I know the true and deep blessing of God healing me. I know the deep blessing of health. I had hundreds of people praying that I recover from what I have now and if he ever says, “Yes,” I will shout it from the rooftops. As it stands now, God has not healed me. I’m not saying he never will, but as of yet, his answer is, at least, “Not yet.”

I have never met a disabled Christian who does not believe like I believe. We trust God to heal, when he says, “be healed,” not by our will, but by his will.

God wants to heal everyone, so it is your fault you are in pain.

God is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, and holy. These are not mere words. Think deeply on what those words mean. God can do anything he wants whenever he wants and neither Satan nor mere human beings can thwart him on his plan. God has but one goal and is working it out perfectly. God will have himself a people that worship him and love him. Whomever he calls to himself will come and be saved. (John 6:35-40) If God’s will is to heal me, even if I were stupid enough to say, “No,” he will heal me, even if he has to put me through much to get me to that point where I want to be healed. (Jonah)

I want to be healed. I tried everything available to me to be miraculously healed or to be medically healed. I still check in, occasionally, with a specialist to see if anything new is available to help me. Doctors have told me that the best they can do for me is to try to lessen my pain. They have lessened it already, but it has merely gone from unbearable, in tears, rocking back and forth pain to I can’t do very much, but I’m not crying pain.

There is something else I want, even if I’m never healed in this life. I want not to have to fight my brothers and sisters in Christ and to know that we are all accepted through Jesus Christ’s blood. I want people to understand that I do still sin, but God is working on me. I want to be loved in Christ even with this weak body that can’t seem to get out of my way, to walk side by side with my brothers and sisters in Christ, to learn all the things God has to show us of his glory and his beauty. And I don’t want to have constantly to feel as if I am the only sinner in the group. We are saved by faith, Jesus’ faith. It is God’s doing that we are saved, loved and brought to where we are right now. Sometimes he takes me where I don’t want to go, but, in the end, like my favorite prophet in the Bible, Jonah, he gets me where he wants me to be, even if I go the hard way.

“For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men. Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.” Rom 14:18-19

Nuff said?

Thanks for sharing :) I think if anyone says those kind of things to you, its quite horrendous! I'm sorry that people are so insensitive and ignorant.

I find these subjects (personally) I have little to say because I have little understanding about why things work the way they do. My Nana was given 8 weeks to live, as she was dying with cancer ... that was 40 years ago, but by the same token, her sister who was a beautiful Christian, died a number of years later from the same type of aggressive cancer.

All I know is Jesus is able. I don't profess to understand any more :) I'm just glad He loves me :D

Thank you so much for sharing. I read everything you wrote, and agree with much of what you said.

God bless you and keep you
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,780
2,943
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#14
Thanks for bringing this post up to the top again! It was worth a review, to remember all God has taught me through sickness and pain.

Andrew Wommack and his ilk, have selectively used the Bible to judge and condemn just about every Christian who has ever lived! Except maybe those killed instantly in a car crash or war, or something like that.

The Bible is ALL about sorrow, pain, trials and tribulations. Read the Psalms, they are mostly laments! Read Job and see suffering which had no source, other than the glory of God. By proof texting a few verses out of context, they miss literally the whole rest of the Bible! And that is the fact, that God WALKS with us through all struggles, pains and suffering.

"43 But now thus says the Lord,
he who created you, O Jacob,
he who formed you, O Israel:
“Fear not, for I have redeemed you;
I have called you by name, you are mine.
2 When you pass through the waters, I will be with you;
and through the rivers, they shall not overwhelm you;
when you walk through fire you shall not be burned,
and the flame shall not consume you.
3 For I am the Lord your God,
the Holy One of Israel, your Savior." Isa. 43:1-3a


I had been feeling down about my RA the last while, especially since the latest drug failed, and it is going to take months for the new one to work, if it works. To say nothing of it being the last possible drug I can take.

I've been praying a lot - crying out to God. Railing at God. Pleading with God. Apologizing to God. Crying some more. And asking God why I have to go through this same trial, over and over. So God also told me to read "The Roots of Sorrow" by Phil Zylla, which was the text for a course, I took on "Suffering and Transformation." I started reading it again to see if would be an appropriate book to give my pastor.

Well, God really worked in my heart. Yesterday, he showed me once again that I am who he created me to be! That God has given me qualities that are unique to me, and not even pain, suffering and deformities can take that away. He told me gently, once again not to have pity parties. He reminded me of a time 5 years ago when I was in this state, and I just kept pushing and did not give up on anything! I did not stop playing my flute, riding my bike, exercising nor seminary. I continued to visit the sick.

There are some very facile explanations out there about suffering. Some of them can be helpful, like the tapestry, where we only see the wrong side of the picture, but God sees the whole thing. Or how we learn through our suffering. These are great, and I use them sometimes for myself and when ministering. But they are much too easy explanations to satifsy God. As Christians, we need to be moving into compassion to help the hurting, the broken and the suffering. Which pretty much everyone goes through.

Some of us are fortunate to have gotten away from the trite, WoF explanations that it is our sin, lack of prayer or faith that is causing or pain or illness. These explanations have no Biblical merit.

Instead, we are to be there for people, comfort them, and love them. And yes, pray for God's will to be done. Sometimes that just means restoring hope, not a body. I am so grateful to God that he allows me to walk these deep valleys from time to time. But even more, I am grateful to all the people of God who have been consistently and faithfully praying for me these last months.

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort, 4 who comforts us in all our affliction, so that we may be able to comfort those who are in any affliction, with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God. 5 For as we share abundantly in Christ's sufferings, so through Christ we share abundantly in comfort too. 6 If we are afflicted, it is for your comfort and salvation; and if we are comforted, it is for your comfort, which you experience when you patiently endure the same sufferings that we suffer." 2 Cor. 1:3-6

God is working in new ways, I never expected. You can only praise God for that kind of amazing and deep work on the spirit and soul!! Here is one of my life passages. I know I have posted it many times. I just wonder how these rabid WoF teachers would exegete this passage?? Ignore it or gloss over it? It pretty much says it all.

"More than that, we rejoice in our suffering, knowing that suffering produces endurance, endurance produces character and character produces hope. And hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured out through the Holy Spirit who was given to us." Romans 5:3-5
 
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shotgunner

Guest
#15
I'm just going to lay it out there. First suffering and sickness is not God's will for anyone and it does not bring glory to God. Yes, God can teach us some wonderful lessons as we go through sickness and suffering but he didn't cause it to teach that lesson.

Sickness and disease is in the world because of sin, not necessarily because of the sin of the individual though.

Paul's thorn was a messenger sent from Satan to stir up trouble for him, not sickness.

The lack of faith may not be the only reason someone doesn't receive their healing but faith and healing have a strong correlation. Anyone reading the scriptures can see that.

God isn't going to heal anyone against their will just like he won't save anyone against their will. The scriptures clearly tell us that it's God's will that none perish, but some will refuse salvation. People can refuse healing also because of their unbelief or their doctrine.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#16
a few thoughts.

1. Everyone dies, this everyone is not healed. even if they desire it
2. Jesus said people were sick for his glory (think lazarus, who had to die 2 times , So jesus could help the faith of the disciples and others who would be left by his death and ascension.
3. Not all sickness is due to sin, Some are due to Jesus wanting to use a person. Many have been drawn to Christ by the faith and joy of those who are very sick.
4. yes, some illness can be due to sin (ie liver disease due to heavy drinking) but not all illness is. and for anyone who says otherwise is to ignore the message jesus gave to the jews who believed the same thing.
 
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shotgunner

Guest
#17
Jesus never said anyone was sick for his glory. Jesus said that the ending would be for the Glory of God. It's the healing that brings glory to God , not the sickness.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,780
2,943
113
#18
Jesus never said anyone was sick for his glory. Jesus said that the ending would be for the Glory of God. It's the healing that brings glory to God , not the sickness.
Perhaps you didn't read the quotes from the Bible I mentioned in my other post? Because if you did not, suffice it to say that God is glorified in EVERYTHING!

Not just some temporary healing in this life time. It is insulting beyond measure to insist that God cannot use everything for his glory. It is a theology gone wrong that does not understand that God is sovereign and totally in control.

So what will you cling to, on that day when you do start aging, and do feel sick in your body or even your soul? Who will you turn to, when all your Word of Faith friends condemn you for not having enough faith?

Will you die for your belief that God heals, and not seek a doctor, like my friend who died of breast cancer, rather than get treatment because she believed God was only glorified in healing, instead of the whole journey we make with God - including sickness, calamity, trials and tribulation, and every other thing that happens in this sinful world. (And yes, I can agree to the fact that sin brought sickness and evil into this world, in the Garden of Eden.)

"For my name's sake I defer my anger,
for the sake of my praise I restrain it for you,
that I may not cut you off.
10 Behold, I have refined you, but not as silver;
I have tried you in the furnace of affliction.
11 For my own sake, for my own sake, I do it,
for how should my name be profaned?
My glory I will not give to another." Isa. 48:9-11


I would suggest that you look up the word "aflliction" in the Bible. Esp. the OT. God repeatedly talks about the "furnace of afllcition" I was a silver jeweler for 7 years. I learned that making something beautiful out of silver, required a lot of hard and harsh processes. From bending, cutting, hammering, soldering, firings, acid baths, then more pounding, being beaten on a cloth wheel a couple of times. Then being thrown in an ammonia bath. And when you have the perfect piece of silver jewelry, it still needs to be cleaned up from time to time.

God has used the refining process in our walk with him. The Christian walk is a hard one. It means that God does use all possible means to change us for his glory. Healing is a minor part of that. But the main way God changes us is taking us through trials, and being with us through the flood, the furnace and yes, sickness.

I shout it to the heavens, that God has done an amazing miracle in my life, healing my soul and changing my character from a self centered, depressed, angry person, to someone who can honestly say, "I know my Redeemer lives." Because I am sick, not in spite of it.

Healing is a small part of the Kingdom of God. The big part is being refined, change and transformed. A lot of that is through the Word of God, but we are driven to our knees, and to the Word, because God hems us in, and for most of us, that means going through trials.

"
Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, 3 for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. 4 And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing." James 1:2-4

"Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. 13 But rejoice insofar as you share Christ's sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed." 1 Peter 4:12-13

Please in future, quote the Bible when you want to make these statements. I rarely (if ever) have seen you WoFers post a Bible verse to support your bad theology. Well, I guess that makes sense, since your position is indefensible Scripturally.

 

Joidevivre

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2014
3,838
271
83
#19
Six days ago my husband died. The healing we saw was relationships within the family. Words of love said that healed hearts that needed those words. Even my husband healed of shame that he had carried for years. Without being at death's door, this might not have happened.

Now he is perfectly healed in body, soul and spirit.


"A time to die, and a time to be born" -
 
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popeye

Guest
#20
Six days ago my husband died. The healing we saw was relationships within the family. Words of love said that healed hearts that needed those words. Even my husband healed of shame that he had carried for years. Without being at death's door, this might not have happened.

Now he is perfectly healed in body, soul and spirit.


"A time to die, and a time to be born" -





sorry for your loss.

sounds like beauty from ashes.

beauty in the midst of tragedy.

heavy duty