The Unforgivable Sin Revealed
- Thread starter Mortis
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
K
With the idea of an unpardonable sin in mind, many people then go to Hebrews 6:4-6 and are convinced that they have fallen away from God and that it is now impossible for them to be saved. A closer look at Hebrews 6:4-6 will show the problem with this thinking. The text reads:
An excellent example of the difference between forgiveness and repentance is seen in the lives of Judas and Peter. In a very real sense, both of these apostles betrayed their Lord. Judas sold Him to the Jewish leaders, and Peter denied three times even knowing Him. Their actions after their sins, however, show that Peter was willing to repent and come back to his Savior, but Judas’ heart was so calloused he would not repent. Peter was forgiven and Judas was lost, not because Judas’ sin was so much more grievous than Peter’s, but because Judas had allowed his heart and conscience to be so seared that he would not repent.
In summary, any person who reads Hebrews 6:4-6 and wonders if he or she is a person who is without hope and has fallen away from God can easily answer that question. If that person is willing to repent of sins and obey God, that passage cannot apply to him or her.
Apologetics Press - Hebrews 6:4-6 and the Unpardonable Sin
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame (Hebrews 6:4-6)
.
Notice what the text does not say. It does not say it is impossible to forgive a person who has fallen away. This is in contrast to the unpardonable sin. The gospel writers describe that sin as an “eternal” sin, for which there was never any forgiveness. The text in Hebrews says that if people fall away it is impossible to “renew them again to repentance.” The difference between forgiveness and repentance is profound. The message in Hebrews 6 is not that those who fall away have committed sins that God will not forgive, it is that their hearts have become so hard that they will not repent. Thus, if a person is willing to repent, he or she cannot be one of those who have fallen away according to Hebrews 6:4-6. A similar idea is found in 1 Timothy 4:2, where we read about those who have “their own conscience seared with a hot iron.” Again, it is not that God will not forgive these people, it is that they will not repent and come back to God..
An excellent example of the difference between forgiveness and repentance is seen in the lives of Judas and Peter. In a very real sense, both of these apostles betrayed their Lord. Judas sold Him to the Jewish leaders, and Peter denied three times even knowing Him. Their actions after their sins, however, show that Peter was willing to repent and come back to his Savior, but Judas’ heart was so calloused he would not repent. Peter was forgiven and Judas was lost, not because Judas’ sin was so much more grievous than Peter’s, but because Judas had allowed his heart and conscience to be so seared that he would not repent.
In summary, any person who reads Hebrews 6:4-6 and wonders if he or she is a person who is without hope and has fallen away from God can easily answer that question. If that person is willing to repent of sins and obey God, that passage cannot apply to him or her.
Apologetics Press - Hebrews 6:4-6 and the Unpardonable Sin
I have talked to a couple on here who have taken this passage to say that one who falls away can't be forgiven, and I have called them out on this many of times. For it does not take repentance and forgiveness away from the one who falls away, only that that forgiveness will not come to them that refuse to repent and turn from their sinful ways....
C
Some sins are unforgivable. Jesus Christ said: “Every sort of sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the spirit will not be forgiven.” (Matthew 12:31) So, then, blasphemy against God’s holy spirit, or active force, will not be forgiven. The apostle Paul alluded to such sin when he wrote: “It is impossible as regards those who have once for all been enlightened, . . . but who have fallen away, to revive them again to repentance, because they impale the Son of God afresh for themselves and expose him to public shame.”—Hebrews 6:4-6.
Only God knows if a person has committed the unforgivable sin. However, Paul shed light on this matter when he wrote: “If we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, but there is a certain fearful expectation of judgment.” (Hebrews 10:26, 27) A willful person acts deliberately, or is “obstinately and often perversely self-willed.” (Webster’s New Collegiate Dictionary) Anyone willfully and obstinately continuing to practice sin after he knows the truth is not forgiven. Hence, it is not so much the sin itself as it is the heart condition, the degree of willfulness involved, that affects whether the sin is forgivable or not. On the other hand, what is likely the case when an erring Christian is deeply disturbed about his wrongdoing? His great concern probably indicates that he has not, in fact, committed an unforgivable sin.
Only God knows if a person has committed the unforgivable sin. However, Paul shed light on this matter when he wrote: “If we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, but there is a certain fearful expectation of judgment.” (Hebrews 10:26, 27) A willful person acts deliberately, or is “obstinately and often perversely self-willed.” (Webster’s New Collegiate Dictionary) Anyone willfully and obstinately continuing to practice sin after he knows the truth is not forgiven. Hence, it is not so much the sin itself as it is the heart condition, the degree of willfulness involved, that affects whether the sin is forgivable or not. On the other hand, what is likely the case when an erring Christian is deeply disturbed about his wrongdoing? His great concern probably indicates that he has not, in fact, committed an unforgivable sin.
E
Only God knows if a person has committed the unforgivable sin
so we never know if we belong to God or not?
it's a guessing game? what? russian roulette? a spin of the wheel on the price is right? what?
this premise is utterly fit for the septic tank and has nothing to do with biblical salvation or God or Jesus or the Holy Spirit
and now you know what I think
bye
V
Some sins are unforgivable. Jesus Christ said: “Every sort of sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the spirit will not be forgiven.” (Matthew 12:31) So, then, blasphemy against God’s holy spirit, or active force, will not be forgiven. The apostle Paul alluded to such sin when he wrote: “It is impossible as regards those who have once for all been enlightened, . . . but who have fallen away, to revive them again to repentance, because they impale the Son of God afresh for themselves and expose him to public shame.”—Hebrews 6:4-6.
Note it says that, if you can lose it, you can't get it back. But also note that it says (in the NASB), "they again crucify to themselves the Son of God." The view, therefore, is bad theology. Jesus was not crucified "to" anyone, but for forgiveness of sins and to be resurrected to bring us eternal life in Him.
Only God knows if a person has committed the unforgivable sin.
By the way, biblically speaking, Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary has nothing to say.
V
No it does not because as once again you need to make a separation of the 613 Mosaic written ordinance laws and God's moral laws.
No it does not go against what Peter said earlier, as Peter was referring to the whole 613 written ordinances that can not be kept.
I don't put a yoke on nobody as all I do is the same as the Apostles did, and state what things are still to be done by believers in Christ.
Romans 13:9-11 is not taken out of context as Apostle Paul clearly shows that by walking in love we will uphold the commandments of the Lord, including the 10 Commandments.....
Jesus said the same thing by obeying the 2 Commandments to love God with all our heart, soul, and mind and to love our neighbors as ourselves upholds and thus fulfills the law. Walking in love fulfills the law !!!
Once again yes obedience to the faith is necessary for salvation ...
If someone says "I don't struggle with the flesh," my first reaction is, they likely are not saved, because Satan doesn't leave alone those who belong to Christ. He constantly attacks, tempts, taunts, and challenges. If someone isn't having that experience, that's probably not good.
K
so we never know if we belong to God or not?
it's a guessing game? what? russian roulette? a spin of the wheel on the price is right? what?
this premise is utterly fit for the septic tank and has nothing to do with biblical salvation or God or Jesus or the Holy Spirit
and now you know what I think
bye
it's a guessing game? what? russian roulette? a spin of the wheel on the price is right? what?
this premise is utterly fit for the septic tank and has nothing to do with biblical salvation or God or Jesus or the Holy Spirit
and now you know what I think
bye
No we do know if we do or not, as just go and read 1 John chapters 2 through 4 and if your walk matches what the Apostle John says a walk will look like for those who have eternal life abiding in them, and what your walk will look like if you don't have eternal life abiding in you.
K
You need to understand that any human effort to do right or wrong is walking in the flesh, and it is living under the Law. Those 613 legal tenets you want to set aside as having any part in your Christian philosophy cover every aspect of human life and behavior -- moral, criminal, civil, and ceremonial (worship and atonement). You can call what you claim we must do anything you want to call it, but it all the Law. A true born again believer does have standards they still have to walk by, and Apostle's Paul, John, and James all show how you can and can not walk in order for eternal life.[/quote[Those apostles all taught nothing but faith for salvation, through God's grace, justification by belief, sanctification by the Holy Spirit, and redemption for all believers. You misrepresent or misinterpret them when you say otherwise, brother.
Absolutely correct, my friend, and they are what you advocate we must do to maintain salvation, even though you will continue to vehemently deny that is what you advocate. All law is the Law, whether you will admit it or not.
The apostles did not put any yoke on anyone. You do, brother, intentionally or not. Or perhaps you can find anything you say we must do that is not part of the Law? I would urge you to try to do so, in fact. I think it would be enlightening for you.
To come to that conclusion, you must remove it from context. That is why I quoted Romans 13:8. Love fulfills the Law. The only way we can love is be in Christ. He takes care of the rest.
Consider what He means there, Ken. Really consider it. You're not grasping it as you think you are.
Ken, no matter how many times you say it, repeating it will not make it true. Obedience is a result of salvation, not a requirement. The fruit of the spirit amounts to nothing more complex than obedience. If there is no fruit, there likely is no salvation, though as I've told you many many times, a snippet of a life is no way to judge salvation -- even a large snippet. People walk in the desert as surely as did Israel, but they come out of the desert, too. Just because you're not around to see them do so doesn't mean they've "lost" anything. It simply means they've struggled with the flesh.
If someone says "I don't struggle with the flesh," my first reaction is, they likely are not saved, because Satan doesn't leave alone those who belong to Christ. He constantly attacks, tempts, taunts, and challenges. If someone isn't having that experience, that's probably not good.
Absolutely correct, my friend, and they are what you advocate we must do to maintain salvation, even though you will continue to vehemently deny that is what you advocate. All law is the Law, whether you will admit it or not.
The apostles did not put any yoke on anyone. You do, brother, intentionally or not. Or perhaps you can find anything you say we must do that is not part of the Law? I would urge you to try to do so, in fact. I think it would be enlightening for you.
To come to that conclusion, you must remove it from context. That is why I quoted Romans 13:8. Love fulfills the Law. The only way we can love is be in Christ. He takes care of the rest.
Consider what He means there, Ken. Really consider it. You're not grasping it as you think you are.
Ken, no matter how many times you say it, repeating it will not make it true. Obedience is a result of salvation, not a requirement. The fruit of the spirit amounts to nothing more complex than obedience. If there is no fruit, there likely is no salvation, though as I've told you many many times, a snippet of a life is no way to judge salvation -- even a large snippet. People walk in the desert as surely as did Israel, but they come out of the desert, too. Just because you're not around to see them do so doesn't mean they've "lost" anything. It simply means they've struggled with the flesh.
If someone says "I don't struggle with the flesh," my first reaction is, they likely are not saved, because Satan doesn't leave alone those who belong to Christ. He constantly attacks, tempts, taunts, and challenges. If someone isn't having that experience, that's probably not good.
Once again you do not see that the Holy Spirit working in and through us will have us uphold those commandments, and walk in the Lord's righteousness. This will show out in our outer actions, speech, and works which is why the Lord said we will know the true believers from the false by the fruits produced.
I have never advocated that we have to keep the whole 613 written ordinances of the Mosaic law, so I do not know where you get that false allegation from. There is the Mosaic written ordinances and there is God's moral laws, the first does not apply but the second does.
I will never admit to something that I do not advocate, and I constantly teach against those who do say we have to keep those written ordinances.
So do you continue to deny that the Apostles in Acts 15 said what Gentile believers have to still keep to following, and how Paul says by walking in the fruits of the Spirit will uphold all Commandments of God? Romans 13:9-11 clearly state this that walking in love which is the greatest fruit of the Spirit will uphold those commandments.
I do know what is being said by Jesus and Paul and they both state following the commandments to walk in love upholds and thus fulfills the law. You act as if the Holy Spirits fruits will not show out in a believers actions, which is completely unbiblical if you believe that way.
Then your last part clearly shows why your teaching is off because as always you do as others do and place salvation as an immediate physical possession of ours right now. The bible however does no such thing as it shows by Paul and Peter that salvation is the ending result of our faith after we have endured and kept the faith. Something can not be result of when we don't have it yet, which is one of the false teachings that have branched from OSAS. Salvation is nowhere placed in the bible as an immediate physical possession, it is stated as a mental assurance of receiving it based on if we keep the faith in Jesus Christ.
Apostle Paul multiple times says we have hope of receiving salvation/eternal life, and that we must continue in the faith in order to receive salvation. I gave you 2 links that have over 100 scriptures in the bible about the importance of obedience in the faith, and you again come back that obedience is not needed. The bible would not emphasize so much if it was not important, and as always you seem to take and teach as though free will does not exist. God, Jesus, and Paul all 3 say, teach, and preach that we have the free will to choose who we serve, and rather or not to continue to serve God instead of flesh.
For it is IMPOSSIBLE for GOD Who is Holy Righteous. and Just to RENEW them to that state of repentance. if they fall away ...the reason being they are recrucifying the Lord and putting the Lord to an open shame and the bible teaches. be not FOOLED, God is not mocked. And using Judas and Peter as examples is silly as in their cases, the Lord wasn't crucified. yet. And if you think about it Judas couldn't forgive himself and couldn't Believe that God could forgive him...Its called extreme guilt complex. It says if they FALL AWAY meaning going back to the state of sin before repentance. In othere words, God ain't playing games. He's DEAD SERIOUS in His judgements .
Last edited:
S
Wow. That is just such an amazing conclusion! I say this with all love, my friend, but it also a very wrong conclusion.
How do you justify that statement in light of the fact that Jesus died to pay the price of sin on behalf of all men? If the price is paid, how then, for one who believes in Him as that sacrifice and in His resurrection to bring us eternal life, is his/her sin "unforgivable"?
Christ has left us no victories to win. We rest in Him. We have no ability to "try." Our salvation is by faith alone, through His grace, and our obedience to Him -- to love God, and love others -- is not obligation required to "hold on" to anything. It is out of our great love for Him and our desire to glorify Him in all we do, because He first loved us.
How do you justify that statement in light of the fact that Jesus died to pay the price of sin on behalf of all men? If the price is paid, how then, for one who believes in Him as that sacrifice and in His resurrection to bring us eternal life, is his/her sin "unforgivable"?
Christ has left us no victories to win. We rest in Him. We have no ability to "try." Our salvation is by faith alone, through His grace, and our obedience to Him -- to love God, and love others -- is not obligation required to "hold on" to anything. It is out of our great love for Him and our desire to glorify Him in all we do, because He first loved us.
S
Feel free to correct me but I feel like you may be trying to say that since Jesus died on the cross to justify our sins, we don't have to try not to sin anymore. We don't have to uphold God's law because Jesus did it for us. I have not read the Bible cover to cover, and I'm sure that I've only read just a little bit compared to what some of you guys may have read. But what I have read, nowhere in those scriptures does it say that, God said if one man can go through life, uphold the law of God, and be sinless, then God will make it to where the rest of us don't have to follow the law of God. God's laws still stand and I think as christians, we should try to make the same decisions that Jesus would've in ANY situation. Meaning, just because Jesus died on the cross doesn't mean we can sin freely. We should still try to uphold the laws of God just the same.
There are some, including the creator of this thread, which insist that these elements apply to New Covenant Christians.
All Christians should follow the moral law of God.
By the way, believers do have incidences of sin but they do not live a lifestyle of sin. Their overall life should be characterized as obedient. Faith produces salvation, and salvation produces obedience. It is very important to get the order right. One does not obey to produce salvation; in fact you cannot. When a person is saved they receive the Holy Spirit which empowers them to obey.