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Many Sabbath and Torah observers on this site are trying to press individuals on the forum to keep ceremonial and civil elements of the Old Covenant that they think still apply to New Covenant Christians. Usually it's the Saturday Sabbath, the annual festivals, clean and unclean meats, and triple tithing. Some few oddballs even think that physical circumcision still applies.
I belonged to Worldwide Church of God for over 10 years and totally believed that those things applied to New Covenant believers (except physical circumcision). So, I know why they think the way they do.
I read some posts this morning from a Seventh Day Adventist pastor. He was basically warning people that if they did not start keeping the Sabbath, they were doomed. That is the teaching of his church, the Seventh Day Adventists, and of most Sabbathkeeping churches including those which come from Armstrongism. They believe that the Mark of the Beast is Sunday observance.
Their message is all about keeping the Sabbath or other elements of the Old Covenant that they think still apply. This pastor did not even mention Jesus Christ and the need to place one's faith in Him alongside his appeal to Sabbahtkeeping.
Salvation in Scripture is very simple. It is about placing one's faith in Jesus Christ. Faith produces salvation which produces obedience. The concept of salvation being by faith alone is what defines the essential Gospel message. We are justified, or placed into a right relationship with God, by accepting Jesus Christ as our Savior.
Repentance, in the sense of repentance required for salvation, means the fundamental change in orientation away from one's selfish, sinful orientation and toward Jesus Christ. It is not about cleaning one's self up to be good enough for salvation, and it is a work of the Holy Spirit and not conjured up by self-effort. If one reads the Scriptures related to salvation events in the book of Romans and Acts, it is very clear that the only condition for salvation is faith.
Repentance is one side of the coin and Faith is the other. There is a move toward God which is the meaning of faith, and a move away from a sinful orientation, which is repentance.
You do not see people being instructed in the Torah before coming to faith. They hear a message, and place their faith in Jesus Christ. For them, salvation occurred in a moment of time. It is a work of the Holy Spirit, and there is no probationary period of obedience before one is good enough to be baptized. Baptism occurred immediately therafter (by the way many Sabbathkeeping groups teach baptismal regeneration which is also a doctrinal error).
Also, please be aware that many of the Sabbathkeepers hold bad doctrines in other ways. They question everything that orthodox Christianity teaches. Some deny the Trinity, which is clearly biblical. Some claim that mankind is in the process of being perfected in order to become a God being in the resurrection (Armstrongites). Seventh Day Adventists practice deceptive recruiting by not identifying themselves on advertisements and place great weight upon their prophetess Ellen G. White and her writings. Many of these guys teach baptismal regeneration, as mentioned previously. There's also a tendency to claim that other non-Sabbathkeepers are unsaved. Armstrongites deny that non-Sabbathkeepers are saved. Seventh Day Adventists say that non-Sabbathkeepers are not necessarily unsaved, but that they will accept the Sabbath or fall under the Mark of the Beast in the Great Tribulation. My understanding is that they believe all true Christians will become Seventh Day Adventists at that point or they will lose their salvation.
Anyways, I am tired of trying to convince Sabbath and Torah observers with the problems behind their doctrines. I just want to warn others about them. I asked CC's management to suspend my account for 6 months so I could spend more time on personal bible study and prayer. CC's management did not ask me to do this and it was not discussed with me. I am just tired of arguing with individuals who are deceived on this matter and it is draining my time for personal prayer and Bible study. I also need to find employment after a long period of disability and it is proving challenging to find something suitable.
I don't blame Sabbathkeepers for their efforts convincing others of their doctrines. I was in a similar situation so I know where they are at. I was still a saved Christian at that point, although I suspect that many Sabbathkeepers are not.
I ask those of you who may be reading messages by Torah observers and Sabbathkeepers to study the issue thoroughly before accepting their claims. Read the book Sabbath in Christ by Dale Ratzlaff. What he says in the book will help you to understand the flaws in the Sabbathkeeper arguments. In addition, read the book Faith Alone by RC Sproul. It will help you to understand the roots of evangelical Protestantism which is a very important concept in refuting the works righteousness positions of most Sabbathkeepers.
View attachment Salvation.doc
I am attaching a document I did concerning salvation which gives Scriptural support behind some of the remarks I made above if anyone cares to look at it. It explains the concept of salvation by faith alone (Sola Fide) and imputed righteousness. These are fundamental teachings of evangelical Christianity.
I know that many Sabbathkeepers will post on this thread with arguments to "prove" Sabbathkeeping. On the surface level their arguments may seem convincing. They convinced me for ten years and I am not an unintelligent person. When one examines the pertinent issues concerning the Old Covenant versus the New Covenant, the context of the Scriptures they refer to, and their faulty view of history, their arguments fall apart. If you need help in that regard, my email is [email protected]. In addition, there is a CC member here JGIG who knows these issues very well. She has a website that is very good in this regard.
I belonged to Worldwide Church of God for over 10 years and totally believed that those things applied to New Covenant believers (except physical circumcision). So, I know why they think the way they do.
I read some posts this morning from a Seventh Day Adventist pastor. He was basically warning people that if they did not start keeping the Sabbath, they were doomed. That is the teaching of his church, the Seventh Day Adventists, and of most Sabbathkeeping churches including those which come from Armstrongism. They believe that the Mark of the Beast is Sunday observance.
Their message is all about keeping the Sabbath or other elements of the Old Covenant that they think still apply. This pastor did not even mention Jesus Christ and the need to place one's faith in Him alongside his appeal to Sabbahtkeeping.
Salvation in Scripture is very simple. It is about placing one's faith in Jesus Christ. Faith produces salvation which produces obedience. The concept of salvation being by faith alone is what defines the essential Gospel message. We are justified, or placed into a right relationship with God, by accepting Jesus Christ as our Savior.
Repentance, in the sense of repentance required for salvation, means the fundamental change in orientation away from one's selfish, sinful orientation and toward Jesus Christ. It is not about cleaning one's self up to be good enough for salvation, and it is a work of the Holy Spirit and not conjured up by self-effort. If one reads the Scriptures related to salvation events in the book of Romans and Acts, it is very clear that the only condition for salvation is faith.
Repentance is one side of the coin and Faith is the other. There is a move toward God which is the meaning of faith, and a move away from a sinful orientation, which is repentance.
You do not see people being instructed in the Torah before coming to faith. They hear a message, and place their faith in Jesus Christ. For them, salvation occurred in a moment of time. It is a work of the Holy Spirit, and there is no probationary period of obedience before one is good enough to be baptized. Baptism occurred immediately therafter (by the way many Sabbathkeeping groups teach baptismal regeneration which is also a doctrinal error).
Also, please be aware that many of the Sabbathkeepers hold bad doctrines in other ways. They question everything that orthodox Christianity teaches. Some deny the Trinity, which is clearly biblical. Some claim that mankind is in the process of being perfected in order to become a God being in the resurrection (Armstrongites). Seventh Day Adventists practice deceptive recruiting by not identifying themselves on advertisements and place great weight upon their prophetess Ellen G. White and her writings. Many of these guys teach baptismal regeneration, as mentioned previously. There's also a tendency to claim that other non-Sabbathkeepers are unsaved. Armstrongites deny that non-Sabbathkeepers are saved. Seventh Day Adventists say that non-Sabbathkeepers are not necessarily unsaved, but that they will accept the Sabbath or fall under the Mark of the Beast in the Great Tribulation. My understanding is that they believe all true Christians will become Seventh Day Adventists at that point or they will lose their salvation.
Anyways, I am tired of trying to convince Sabbath and Torah observers with the problems behind their doctrines. I just want to warn others about them. I asked CC's management to suspend my account for 6 months so I could spend more time on personal bible study and prayer. CC's management did not ask me to do this and it was not discussed with me. I am just tired of arguing with individuals who are deceived on this matter and it is draining my time for personal prayer and Bible study. I also need to find employment after a long period of disability and it is proving challenging to find something suitable.
I don't blame Sabbathkeepers for their efforts convincing others of their doctrines. I was in a similar situation so I know where they are at. I was still a saved Christian at that point, although I suspect that many Sabbathkeepers are not.
I ask those of you who may be reading messages by Torah observers and Sabbathkeepers to study the issue thoroughly before accepting their claims. Read the book Sabbath in Christ by Dale Ratzlaff. What he says in the book will help you to understand the flaws in the Sabbathkeeper arguments. In addition, read the book Faith Alone by RC Sproul. It will help you to understand the roots of evangelical Protestantism which is a very important concept in refuting the works righteousness positions of most Sabbathkeepers.
View attachment Salvation.doc
I am attaching a document I did concerning salvation which gives Scriptural support behind some of the remarks I made above if anyone cares to look at it. It explains the concept of salvation by faith alone (Sola Fide) and imputed righteousness. These are fundamental teachings of evangelical Christianity.
I know that many Sabbathkeepers will post on this thread with arguments to "prove" Sabbathkeeping. On the surface level their arguments may seem convincing. They convinced me for ten years and I am not an unintelligent person. When one examines the pertinent issues concerning the Old Covenant versus the New Covenant, the context of the Scriptures they refer to, and their faulty view of history, their arguments fall apart. If you need help in that regard, my email is [email protected]. In addition, there is a CC member here JGIG who knows these issues very well. She has a website that is very good in this regard.
