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Sorry about taking so long to reply. Yes it's online. Here's the website: Grant R. Jeffrey Ministries
Yeah I was getting confused between the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nag Hammadi ones 
There are a lot of people who would like the Nag Hammadi ones included or given more credit but from what I heard from scholars in the know, they were written a much longer time after than the original gospels and contain some strange stories as well as a lot of embellishing.
There are a lot of people who would like the Nag Hammadi ones included or given more credit but from what I heard from scholars in the know, they were written a much longer time after than the original gospels and contain some strange stories as well as a lot of embellishing.
the dead sea scrolls were mostly intact when first discovered, however the beduins who were hired to remove the artifacts were being paid by the piece so the divided many of the scrolls and other items into pieces so as a result many were destroyed and the fragments that were recovered were difficult to identify, also many of the ones that somehow did remain intact are in the museum in Jerusalem and only a select few are allowed to study their contents.
A
I read that the DSSs were from a first century BC Essene library. They knew some devastation was about to hit, (maybe a flood, maybe an advancing army -- I don't remember if they knew what happened), so the librarians stuck all the scrolls in a nearby cave. And then, for whatever reason, they never came back to get them.
With that, the scrolls were not just Torah scrolls, they had all sorts of material, much like our libraries today. So, they had quite a few copies of all the OT books, quite a few other references, some stuff the archaeologists hadn't figured out yet, and they weren't done studying all the fragments yet. But since the library was destroyed 100 years before Christ was born, it certainly can't include any NT scrolls in it.
So what could those prophecies be? IDK. Could they be from the OT? Because "Shoot of Jesse" seems familiar and I haven't read the same article you read. Both "pierced" and "wounded" are included somewhere in the OT talking about Jesus.
I also know that in the great tribulation of the first couple of centuries after Christ, when the church was in hiding, they'd put the important books in a good hiding location but the super important books they'd hide even better. That way, if they were discovered and the soldiers searched around they'd find the first stash, and maybe skip looking for anything else, saving the super-importants. When the need to hide was over, that's when it was discovered that every small group considered the same books super-important, and those are what's in the Bible. (James was hotly debated, but they did decide it belonged.
Since this stuff interest you, I suspect you'll like the book I learned all this stuff from. It's called "The Books and The Parchments" by F.F. Bruce.
Oh, BTW, before trusting JackH's knowledge on stuff, you might want to learn who he is. View his posts on here and I suspect you quickly earn not to trust him on anything he says. Might want to do that for the rest of us, since just because we answer doesn't necessarily mean we know what we're talking about. lol
As for me? I'm just telling what I read in F.F. Bruce's book, and I read it in the 1990's, so might have remembered some stuff wrong after all these years.
With that, the scrolls were not just Torah scrolls, they had all sorts of material, much like our libraries today. So, they had quite a few copies of all the OT books, quite a few other references, some stuff the archaeologists hadn't figured out yet, and they weren't done studying all the fragments yet. But since the library was destroyed 100 years before Christ was born, it certainly can't include any NT scrolls in it.
So what could those prophecies be? IDK. Could they be from the OT? Because "Shoot of Jesse" seems familiar and I haven't read the same article you read. Both "pierced" and "wounded" are included somewhere in the OT talking about Jesus.
I also know that in the great tribulation of the first couple of centuries after Christ, when the church was in hiding, they'd put the important books in a good hiding location but the super important books they'd hide even better. That way, if they were discovered and the soldiers searched around they'd find the first stash, and maybe skip looking for anything else, saving the super-importants. When the need to hide was over, that's when it was discovered that every small group considered the same books super-important, and those are what's in the Bible. (James was hotly debated, but they did decide it belonged.
Since this stuff interest you, I suspect you'll like the book I learned all this stuff from. It's called "The Books and The Parchments" by F.F. Bruce.
Oh, BTW, before trusting JackH's knowledge on stuff, you might want to learn who he is. View his posts on here and I suspect you quickly earn not to trust him on anything he says. Might want to do that for the rest of us, since just because we answer doesn't necessarily mean we know what we're talking about. lol
As for me? I'm just telling what I read in F.F. Bruce's book, and I read it in the 1990's, so might have remembered some stuff wrong after all these years.
I think you may have JackRT confused with me.
In any event, it is obvious you are very confused about the Dead Sea Scrolls as evidenced by your post #27.
I'll be getting into that post in detail as time permits.
Incidentally, JackRT made an excellent point about people being confused between the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nag Hammadi library. Wattie admitted in post #25 that he was confused about it.
In any event, it is obvious you are very confused about the Dead Sea Scrolls as evidenced by your post #27.
I'll be getting into that post in detail as time permits.
Incidentally, JackRT made an excellent point about people being confused between the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nag Hammadi library. Wattie admitted in post #25 that he was confused about it.
thanks for the link... well, imo, it looks like there actually are some first century texts from the DSS that contain phrases that seem to be about Jesus...
it's interesting... although, to be honest not super-surprising... the Judaism of the first century wasn't the 'monolithic' structure that we see in Judaism today... imo...
it's interesting... although, to be honest not super-surprising... the Judaism of the first century wasn't the 'monolithic' structure that we see in Judaism today... imo...
T
Most experts in this field think the Essenes were the group that wrote the scrolls. Some of their beliefs and practices were similar to the early church, but then they used the same Bible. They believed that they were following the new covenant
mentioned in Jermiah, they had a leadership composed of twelve people and had a communion meal of bead and wine. They seeme to have despised the Temple and believed in the coming of the Messiah to rid Judea of the Romans or Kittim as they called them. They also mention a person they call the teacher of righteouness who was killed by a wicked Priest. As far as I know there have not been found any New Testament writings to date, although rumours abound of some being hidden away. If anyone is interested an English translation of the Scrolls exists compiled by Geza Vermes.
mentioned in Jermiah, they had a leadership composed of twelve people and had a communion meal of bead and wine. They seeme to have despised the Temple and believed in the coming of the Messiah to rid Judea of the Romans or Kittim as they called them. They also mention a person they call the teacher of righteouness who was killed by a wicked Priest. As far as I know there have not been found any New Testament writings to date, although rumours abound of some being hidden away. If anyone is interested an English translation of the Scrolls exists compiled by Geza Vermes.
A
I really do get people's names mixed up, so let me check.
You're the "98 year old man" who goes around scoffing at creationism for recreational purposes, right?
JackRT is a new guy who thinks he's an historian, but thinks none of the NT was written by the guys who wrote those letters because it was written 100 years after Christ died. Equally as silly as what you "preach," but different, no?
You're the "98 year old man" who goes around scoffing at creationism for recreational purposes, right?
JackRT is a new guy who thinks he's an historian, but thinks none of the NT was written by the guys who wrote those letters because it was written 100 years after Christ died. Equally as silly as what you "preach," but different, no?
I read that the DSSs were from a first century BC Essene library. They knew some devastation was about to hit, (maybe a flood, maybe an advancing army -- I don't remember if they knew what happened), so the librarians stuck all the scrolls in a nearby cave. And then, for whatever reason, they never came back to get them.
With that, the scrolls were not just Torah scrolls, they had all sorts of material, much like our libraries today. So, they had quite a few copies of all the OT books, quite a few other references, some stuff the archaeologists hadn't figured out yet, and they weren't done studying all the fragments yet. But since the library was destroyed 100 years before Christ was born, it certainly can't include any NT scrolls in it.
So what could those prophecies be? IDK. Could they be from the OT? Because "Shoot of Jesse" seems familiar and I haven't read the same article you read. Both "pierced" and "wounded" are included somewhere in the OT talking about Jesus.
I also know that in the great tribulation of the first couple of centuries after Christ, when the church was in hiding, they'd put the important books in a good hiding location but the super important books they'd hide even better. That way, if they were discovered and the soldiers searched around they'd find the first stash, and maybe skip looking for anything else, saving the super-importants. When the need to hide was over, that's when it was discovered that every small group considered the same books super-important, and those are what's in the Bible. (James was hotly debated, but they did decide it belonged.
Since this stuff interest you, I suspect you'll like the book I learned all this stuff from. It's called "The Books and The Parchments" by F.F. Bruce.
Oh, BTW, before trusting JackH's knowledge on stuff, you might want to learn who he is. View his posts on here and I suspect you quickly earn not to trust him on anything he says. Might want to do that for the rest of us, since just because we answer doesn't necessarily mean we know what we're talking about. lol
As for me? I'm just telling what I read in F.F. Bruce's book, and I read it in the 1990's, so might have remembered some stuff wrong after all these years.
With that, the scrolls were not just Torah scrolls, they had all sorts of material, much like our libraries today. So, they had quite a few copies of all the OT books, quite a few other references, some stuff the archaeologists hadn't figured out yet, and they weren't done studying all the fragments yet. But since the library was destroyed 100 years before Christ was born, it certainly can't include any NT scrolls in it.
So what could those prophecies be? IDK. Could they be from the OT? Because "Shoot of Jesse" seems familiar and I haven't read the same article you read. Both "pierced" and "wounded" are included somewhere in the OT talking about Jesus.
I also know that in the great tribulation of the first couple of centuries after Christ, when the church was in hiding, they'd put the important books in a good hiding location but the super important books they'd hide even better. That way, if they were discovered and the soldiers searched around they'd find the first stash, and maybe skip looking for anything else, saving the super-importants. When the need to hide was over, that's when it was discovered that every small group considered the same books super-important, and those are what's in the Bible. (James was hotly debated, but they did decide it belonged.
Since this stuff interest you, I suspect you'll like the book I learned all this stuff from. It's called "The Books and The Parchments" by F.F. Bruce.
Oh, BTW, before trusting JackH's knowledge on stuff, you might want to learn who he is. View his posts on here and I suspect you quickly earn not to trust him on anything he says. Might want to do that for the rest of us, since just because we answer doesn't necessarily mean we know what we're talking about. lol
As for me? I'm just telling what I read in F.F. Bruce's book, and I read it in the 1990's, so might have remembered some stuff wrong after all these years.
The DSS could possibly contain NT scrolls since some of the writings date to 70 AD. Nobody has, however, proven that any of the writings are NT. Some have speculated that, but it has not been credibly confirmed.
Those prophecies are from Isaiah as I already pointed out. Isaiah 11:1: “Then a shoot will spring from the stem of Jesse . . .” (NASB). Isaiah 53:5: “But he was pierced through for our transgressions . . .” (NASB) and “But he was wounded for our transgressions . . .” (KJV).
The Hebrew canon of the OT had been determined around two hundred years before Christ.
F.F. Bruce died in 1990. Much more information on the DSS has been made public since then.
If I was as misinformed as you are, I would be reluctant to take cheap shots at others.