Christians vs Jews?

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valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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- this says the promises, adoption and glory and the covents are Israels
so Paul forgot to tell himself this? we should believe the bible.
It is those of you Americans who lay such stress on unbelieving Israel that don't believe the Bible.

Romans 9:4
4Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants,
and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
Yes and in chapter 11 it is made clear that the olive tree, the TRUE ISRAEL, is made up of the Jews who believed in the Messiah, PLUS the Gentiles who believed in the Messiah and were grafted into Israel, PLUS any unbelieving Jews who repented (11.12-24).

thus the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises now belongs to THEM (the true Israel of God, the election of Israel (11.7) plus Gentile proselytes). That is Paul's whole message. You refuse to believe the Bible because it doesn't suit your ideas.

12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel,
and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints,
and of the household of God
Nothing could show in clearer fashion that the believing ex-Gentiles were NOW no longer strangers and foreigners (Gentiles) but were fellow-citizens with the believing Jews and were of the household of God. They were now part of the true Israel.

-being aliens and strangers, now part of Israels covenants with the saints.
Precisely they were now a part of the TRUE ISRAEL.

and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth”
And I am part of that multitude. 'Then those who are physically UNCIRCUMCISED but observe the Law, will condemn you who have the written code and circumcision but break the Law, --- for he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is true circumcision something outward and physical. He is a Jew who is one inwardly and real circumcision is a matter of the heart, spiritual and NOT literal. His praise is not from men but from God. (Rom 2.27-29).

This clearly teaches that believing Gentiles are true Jews. They are physically uncircumcised, but circumcised in heart. In other words they are branches of the olive tree, which was God's specially given name for Israel (Jer 11.16).

-so are you a physical decendent from Israels grandkids?
Only a relatively small part of Israel were actually descended from Jacob. Many were descended from servants of the household (which numbered thousands), many were descended from the 'mixed multitude' (Ex 12.38) who became part of Israel at Sinai, many were descended from Gentile proselytes who united with Israel (Ex 12.48), many were descended from the Edomites who were forcibly made Jews by Hyrcanus, many were descended from the Galilean Gentiles who were forced to become Jews under Aristobulus. To suggest that Israel as a whole were pure descendants of Jacob is an amusing myth. MANY WERE GENTILE CONVERTS.

And I suspect that MOST OF US Westerners have Jewish blood in our veins.

this is not talking about spiritual jews, but physical Israel decendents.
Then they will be hard to find, for such were only a minority of Jews.

Rom 11.12-24

-gentials are grafted in to Israel, be one law for all.
you are grafted in and fellow heir to the promises and covents of Israel.
but the covents still belong to them, thats what Paul said in the n.t..
yes the covenants belong to true Israel including those who have been grafted in. That's what Paul says. One of the main teachings of Rom 9-11 is that all who believe in the Messiah have become the Israel of God.

1 Peter 2.9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people;
that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

-yes you become a jew inward, heir to the promises of Isreal,
the mystery was the gentials could join any time, conform to them.
yes and by doing so they become part of the chosen nation, 'the holy nation'. They even become priests. they become God's peculiar people (see Exod 19.5-6). They become part of the true Israel. To the unbiased mind it could not be clearer. And they are part of the 'all Israel' which will be saved.
 
Aug 13, 2014
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No Jew can be saved, just as no man can be saved. apart from through full belief in Jesus Christ. Obviously some Jews were saved, because they believed in Jesus Christ. But those who remain unbelievers will be eternally lost unless they come to Jesus Christ to be their Savior.

Jesus of course was not saved. He died to save others.
No one other then Jesus the Christ has been saved to date.

Jesus most assuredly was saved.

No Jesus the Christ did not die to save others as you have said.

Ask one of the Christians to show you the correct answers there indeed are a few on the forum.

Mac.
 
Aug 13, 2014
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Did Jesus need to be saved? Of course not LOL
I am wondering why you are on the forum you are again incorrect and you are LOL about it!

Is all of this forum just a LOL thing for you or is it that your trying but have ended up on the wrong road or even someone has mislead you and I think that may be what it is.

To all Christians please help this person out I can not keep doing such I am just to old to keep this up.

Mac.
 
Aug 13, 2014
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I did not intend to pursue this Daniel stuff - but Bondy reckoned that the "exact day" was predicted and EG has valiantly tried to explain the whole thing to me, so ....

Sorry, I've since read half a dozen translations of Dan 9 (and 8 and 10 just for context),
I've visited scores of websites and just get more confused.

For the life of me, I cant see how the exact year was foretold - let alone the exact day.


April 7, AD 30 ? April 3, AD 33 ? Some other time ?
Your first try is a good start just go on the internet not on a forum and do a search and you will get the complete story you want.

Mac.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
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I am wondering why you are on the forum you are again incorrect and you are LOL about it!

Is all of this forum just a LOL thing for you or is it that your trying but have ended up on the wrong road or even someone has mislead you and I think that may be what it is.

To all Christians please help this person out I can not keep doing such I am just to old to keep this up.

Mac.
As much as I'd like to, I feel led to help you out first. But I suppose you're not really open to that are you?
 
Jan 27, 2013
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he is in a new film, and his side kick, is called christmas. (the expendables ) that would be.1 2 3.

did a christian minister, not employ rambo,to go in to hostile territory, to save his daughter.

i agree to the wording at the bottom of the picture.(nice pencil work, drawing of sly)

but in stead of deal with it, i would have wrote, and pointed to jesus.(Matthew 11)

28 Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."Matthew 11
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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No, it does not. sorry, not buying your arguments, I am not a Jew, not am I spiritual Isreal. I am a child of God. the barrier (the law) was removed, and made us one, as paul said in Eph 2.


well I am both a true Jew (Rom 2.27-29) and a true Israelite (Gal 6.16; Eph 2.12-22; Rom 11.12-24).


[SUP]14 [/SUP]For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, [SUP]15 [/SUP]having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,
I wonder why you skirted around what went before and after? 'you WERE alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, strangers to the covenant of promise --- so then you are NO LONGER strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with God's holy ones, and of the household of GOD'



.
And James 1 was written to Jewish Christians, thus is was addressed to them
.

Tell me, if the so Jewish James (as we know from history) was writing solely to Jews how was it that he TOTALLY OVERLOOKED the need to tell them how to behave towards Gentile Christians? That is incomprehensible when there were so many problems between Jewish and Gentile Christians. It is as though Gentile Christians were unknown throughout the dispersion. Dealing with those problems was vital for the welfare of the church. How did James overlook it? Were his promises made only to Jewish Christians? There is not a hint anywhere that only Jewish Christians were being spoken to. He talks as though he is talking to the whole church in each case. How could he possibly have written to Jewish Christians throughout the world without even a hint of their relationship with Gentile Christians, and without even a hint outside 1.1 that he had Jews in mind? In a sense he was the world bishop. How could he totally ignore Gentiles? Sorry you are gravely in error.


I hope you are not basing your belief on those three passages, for they are weak arguments at best
No I have plenty more.

How can we be Isreal. when they are hated for the sake of the gospel? When they are blinded in part? You make no sense.
No it is a PART of Israel that is blinded and hated (11.25). You ignore what you choose. We are the part which is not blinded and hated.

Gal 3 is speaking of the schoolmaster. Which was taken out of the way making us one. What does that have to do with me being a spiritual Jew,, Why did you not adress Adam. Is Adam and Noah spiritual Jews or children of God?
There is neither Jew nor Greek. Thus ALL are the same. ALL ARE ISRAEL. We are one in Christ, and Christ sums up Israel in Himself (Matt 2.15). He IS the TRUE Vine, the true Israel. And we are in Him..

Then you do not know anything about Abraham, He was also not founder of the elect.
Or perhaps you don't. So you don't think that Abraham was 'chosen'? What does Romans 9 say? Paul tells us that he was the founder of 'the election of Israel' through Isaac and Jacob but not Esau (verses 7-13). And in response to the information about Israel in 9.1-5 he has made clear that NOT ALL ISRAEL ARE ISRAEL. This clearly indicates that the promises only applied to some, those who believed in the Messiah.

Unless you think no person alive was saved before him, Again where do you come up with your arguments?
Try the Bible. Nowhere are people before Abraham called 'the elect'. And they were certainly not the election of Israel. That initially referred to Messiah believing Jews (11.7, 28).

You have your context of romans 9 in error. Try to find the historical relevence of romans 9, and you will begin to see the truth.
Have you thought how arrogant you are sounding? I think I know the historical relevance of Romans 9-11. I have written a commentary on it. Paul wrote it following his details of the doctrine of salvation in order to demonstrate that God has formed a true Israel, made up of believing Israel, and believing Gentiles. He is demonstrating what he clearly stated in 2.27-29 and is showing how all (shown as lost in 1.18-3.11) are incorporated into Christ as the true Israel..

Yep. In other words, non of the other of his children had any part of the inheritance promised Abraham (not speaking of salvation of course, which is your problem, your making it a salvation covenant when it NEVER WAS)
Your problem is that you do not understand what Paul is saying, that all had a part in the inheritance promised to Abraham because they became part of the true Israel (compare Galatians 3.29 - heirs according to the promise).
you are clearly ignorant of the true make up of Israel in Jesus' time. It was made up of descendants of Jacob, descendants of his thousand or so servants, descendants of the mixed multitude (Ex 12.38), descendants of Gentile proselytes throughout Israel's history (Ex 12.48), descendants of Esau (forcibly converted under Hyrcanus), descendants of Galilean Gentiles (forcibly converted under Aristobulus). This was always God's way. To use Israel to draw in the Gentiles and make then Israelites. And Paul says in Rom 9-11 that He has done it again..
it says they were blinded. Nice try.
It NOWHERE says that the election were blinded. No wonder you have got everything wrong. It says 'the election OBTAINED IT (what Israel sought), the REST were blinded.' (11.7). Are you deliberately twisting Scripture? Or just careless?

 
Aug 13, 2014
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As much as I'd like to, I feel led to help you out first. But I suppose you're not really open to that are you?
I think it would be best for you to make your post to all I am kind of busy and I did not think doing more is a good idea.

Mac.
 
V

Viligant_Warrior

Guest
As much as I'd like to, I feel led to help you out first. But I suppose you're not really open to that are you?
I think it would be best for you to make your post to all I am kind of busy and I did not think doing more is a good idea.
That, I think, answers your question, Ricky.

Mac, you think Jesus needed to be saved and you don't think it would be a good idea to get some help with that?

You do realize, don't you, that members of this forum cannot deny the deity of Christ and remain members? And by claiming Christ "needed to be saved" that is precisely what you are denying?
 
B

bondservant

Guest
It might help all who study to know that the northern Jews in Jesus,s day were vary stand offish, the Jews in the south were more excepting to Jesus,s ministry and gentiles that worshipped in the temple. Jesus home base was capernaum how ever you spell it he was kicked out of Jerusalem.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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No one other then Jesus the Christ has been saved to date.

Jesus most assuredly was saved.

No Jesus the Christ did not die to save others as you have said.

Ask one of the Christians to show you the correct answers there indeed are a few on the forum.

Mac.
you are a sad case
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
63
It might help all who study to know that the northern Jews in Jesus,s day were vary stand offish, the Jews in the south were more excepting to Jesus,s ministry and gentiles that worshipped in the temple. Jesus home base was capernaum how ever you spell it he was kicked out of Jerusalem.
are you serious? It was the northern Jews in Galilee who were sympathetic to His message. The southern Jews in Judea were more hardened
 
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bondservant

Guest
I may of made a mistake valiant I will check on that but the point was to let saints know there were 2 different sects.
Sssssccccccrrreeeeeeeech as valiant runs his fingernails over the chalkboard.
 
Mar 21, 2015
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In the book of Daniel God gave them the exact day messiah would enter Jerusalem....
The exact day is given in Daniel when the math is done of the 70th week.
I did not intend to pursue this Daniel stuff - but Bondy reckoned that the "exact day" was predicted and EG has valiantly tried to explain the whole thing to me, so ....
I've since read half a dozen translations of Dan 9 (and 8 and 10 just for context),
I've visited scores of websites and just get more confused.

For the life of me, I cant see how the exact year was foretold - let alone the exact day.
April 7, AD 30 ? April 3, AD 33 ? Some other time ?
Your first try is a good start just go on the internet not on a forum and do a search and you will get the complete story you want. Mac.
I've spent hours doing just that, Mac.
I am becoming convinced that no "exact day" was predicted - and I suppose, why would that be necessary anyway ?

Did the Lord expect us to spend aeons labouring over a hot computer ?
 
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bondservant

Guest
Go to k house . Org look for it their I have studied under my friend chuck for years .
 
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Viligant_Warrior

Guest
And we definitely won't be getting an answer now. He's history. Chalk another one up for the FTPD -- False Teachers Police Department.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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Ya I have heard that as well but as for an actual relationship with God how do the jews fair I wonder?
God has not forsaken them, as He has not forsaken Israel as a whole. Prophecy concerning this will come true in the end.

For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed. Malachi 3:6