Busted: "Sinless" Perfectionists Debunked

[JesusIsAll]

It's been a learning experience in spiritual quackery, the web. I never recall, in real life, knowing anybody claiming sinless perfection. I've know holy Joes, a sociopathic sort of control freak "Christian," a Bible thumper who's quick to see what's wrong with everybody else that doesn't conform to their will. You know the type, prophet wannabes, looking for attention and a cult following.

Oddly, such holy Joes most always seem to be found insufferable and abusive in their families, nobody comfortable around them, often adulterous of their spouses: walking, narcissistic hypocrites, dirty laundry piled in that closet. The higher they rise, the harder they fall. Yet the holy Joes I've come across have not claimed sinlessness, despite their pretense of holiness. Maybe it's just implied, something they're smart enough not to go around saying.

Come to find, of the following gem of a video, in words of one of my favorite preachers of old, that this problem has existed for sometime, clearly. You learn something new everyday.

If you've found yourself running across a sinless purveyor of doubt as to the salvation of the Lord, and in slander of your soul, impugning your assurance and relationship to your Lord, this video will much interest you.

Matthew 23:23-4 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

[video=youtube;6s5wHNC8LGY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s5wHNC8LGY[/video]​

 

[ember]

It's been a learning experience in spiritual quackery, the web. I never recall, in real life, knowing anybody claiming sinless perfection. I've know holy Joes, a sociopathic sort of control freak "Christian," a Bible thumper who's quick to see what's wrong with everybody else that doesn't conform to their will. You know the type, prophet wannabes, looking for attention and a cult following.

ditto

seems like all the loose nuts 'n bolts have somehow come together for a general assembly of spare parts that don't fit in anywhere else LOL!

ok I'm looking at the 'funny' side of it, because there is obviously, IMO, some sort of brain malfunction going on that does not see itself in the word sinner before a holy God and manages to somehow resort the scriptures like one of those puzzles with one piece missing and you have to make sense out of it

well, I know what I mean, but I am saying I agree with you and am just going to watch the vid now

 

[crossnote]

"It's been a learning experience in spiritual quackery, the web. I never recall, in real life, knowing anybody claiming sinless perfection. I've know holy Joes, a sociopathic sort of control freak "Christian," a Bible thumper who's quick to see what's wrong with everybody else that doesn't conform to their will. You know the type, prophet wannabes, looking for attention and a cult following."

Mainly because in sane churches these would be shown the door in 5 nano seconds...well, maybe 6

 

[JesusIsAll]

ditto

seems like all the loose nuts 'n bolts have somehow come together for a general assembly of spare parts that don't fit in anywhere else LOL!

ok I'm looking at the 'funny' side of it, because there is obviously, IMO, some sort of brain malfunction going on that does not see itself in the word sinner before a holy God and manages to somehow resort the scriptures like one of those puzzles with one piece missing and you have to make sense out of it

well, I know what I mean, but I am saying I agree with you and am just going to watch the vid now

It's alarming, the lack of Holy Spirit conviction of sin that we have NOTHING to stand before the Lord, never will, and this so basic to the gospel. But something we are aware of, spiritually, as if not to mention the mountain of scripture pertaining to these things. It's something I've never seen expressed by another Christian in real life, though, maybe because being puffed-up to such absurd extremes quickly turns people into social pariahs. Also, the claim is simply fantastic, anybody who somehow thinks they don't fall short of the glory of God in this life. Whatever the reasons, spreading doubt over the Lord's firm promises and commands to have faith, to trust, is horrible sin of itself.

 

[JesusIsAll]

"It's been a learning experience in spiritual quackery, the web. I never recall, in real life, knowing anybody claiming sinless perfection. I've know holy Joes, a sociopathic sort of control freak "Christian," a Bible thumper who's quick to see what's wrong with everybody else that doesn't conform to their will. You know the type, prophet wannabes, looking for attention and a cult following."

Mainly because in sane churches these would be shown the door in 5 nano seconds...well, maybe 6

That's true, of most Bible believing churches. Whatever the case, it's instant pariahship (just invented a word?) most would have sense to avoid, except, hmm, trolls.

 

[notuptome]

There is nothing new under the sun.

The Lords tender mercies are new everyday.

Only works when you understand that saved from the power of sin now and saved from the presence of sin in eternity.

Those old time preachers had a grasp of scripture that only comes from diligent study and prayer.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[JesusIsAll]

Those old time preachers had a grasp of scripture that only comes from diligent study and prayer.

Yes they did. It would be another discussion, not necessarily even Bible related, but the old methods of study, in simpler, less noisy times, were far superior, including artistic pursuits. Disciplines were learned by discipline, research effort and slower, deliberate means, people not seeking instant answers and gratification, that lead to sloppiness and error. I feel fortunate to have had Christian formative years, at a time it was still about the Bible and proven study aids. Though I do think it wonderful people are reading the sermons of these preachers of old, that people can hear them again.

 

[ember]

It's alarming, the lack of Holy Spirit conviction of sin that we have NOTHING to stand before the Lord, never will, and this so basic to the gospel. But something we are aware of, spiritually, as if not to mention the mountain of scripture pertaining to these things. It's something I've never seen expressed by another Christian in real life, though, maybe because being puffed-up to such absurd extremes quickly turns people into social pariahs. Also, the claim is simply fantastic, anybody who somehow thinks they don't fall short of the glory of God in this life. Whatever the reasons, spreading doubt over the Lord's firm promises and commands to have faith, to trust, is horrible sin of itself.

some of the refutations of salvation by God's grace alone, that I have seen here in this forum, amounts to fanaticism IMO

and such, that can only be explained by the urgency of a foreign spirit that has absolutely nothing to do with God's Spirit

It is the teaching of seducing spirits who avail themselves as angels of light to those who fancy themselves far up the rung on the gifted teacher scale while in reality, they haven't even got a ladder

 

[Jason0047]

So the disciples were doing the same things as the Pharisees in this passage and yet our Lord was not pointing out their evil? Yeah, that really doesn't make any sense. Jesus said what he did in anger because the Pharisees were being hypocrites when they didn't have to be hypocrites. God wants to do the "good work" in you. Sinless perfectionism is taught in the Bible whether you want to believe that or not (See 1 Peter 4:1, Galatians 5:24, Romans 6:14, 2 Peter 2:1, 14, Ephesians 4:17-27).

 

[psychomom]

sigh. my 'like' button finger is sleepy.

but my sister just sent me A.W. Tozer's The Knowledge of the Holy.

it wasn't written that long ago, and it honors and elevates the Most High above the creation.

if you can imagine.

ps-- i know nothing about Tozer, but this little book is pretty good.

 

[crossnote]

So the disciples were doing the same things as the Pharisees in this passage and yet our Lord was not pointing out their evil? Yeah, that really doesn't make any sense. Jesus said what he did in anger because the Pharisees were being hypocrites when they didn't have to be hypocrites. God wants to do the "good work" in you. Sinless perfectionism is taught in the Bible whether you want to believe that or not (See 1 Peter 4:1, Galatians 5:24, Romans 6:14, 2 Peter 2:1, 14, Ephesians 4:17-27).

I'm only taking your first verse reference because of time constraints...

1 Peter 4:1 (KJV) Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

The 'same mind' is speaking of suffering not sinlessness. Just an example of your lopsy loopy interpretations.
We'll cease from sin AFTER we have suffered the ultimate....death.

 

[JesusIsAll]

some of the refutations of salvation by God's grace alone, that I have seen here in this forum, amounts to fanaticism IMO

and such, that can only be explained by the urgency of a foreign spirit that has absolutely nothing to do with God's Spirit

It is the teaching of seducing spirits who avail themselves as angels of light to those who fancy themselves far up the rung on the gifted teacher scale while in reality, they haven't even got a ladder

There is an urgency you see in many, on a few topics they're, as if, in a crush to try and cast doubt upon. It is doctrines of devils, however one otherwise wants to characterize deception that tries to tear at faith. But instead of nefarious, it seems more troll behavior than anything else, not that a troll has a good spirit pulling their strings. The repetition and the banter they achieve from people who they can push a button and summon seems to be the game. I don't believe the devil is so lame to beat his head against the wall, trying to snatch anything from the Lord's hand, that he at least knows what's possible and what's not, has bigger fish to fry, in any case. The web would also be where you'd find people resort to, who don't have a congregation, who have cult-like private interpretations nobody in mainstream Christianity needs or wants to hear. There is a real epidemic of borderline narcissistic disorders out there! And institutions have had their share of people with Christ complexes.

 

[JesusIsAll]

sigh. my 'like' button finger is sleepy.

but my sister just sent me A.W. Tozer's The Knowledge of the Holy.

it wasn't written that long ago, and it honors and elevates the Most High above the creation.

if you can imagine.

ps-- i know nothing about Tozer, but this little book is pretty good.

Tozer was a great man of God. I've had a bit of difficulty reading him, as he tends to ramble a bit, takes longer to make points than some others. But he has a sterling reputation among those expert in him, was an old time, no nonsense preacher who didn't compromise truth or tickle ears. There's Tozer on YouTube and other places in audio on the web. I've meant to take advantage of this at some point, though have a real bucket list of theologians piled high, already!

 

[psychomom]

Tozer was a great man of God. I've had a bit of difficulty reading him, as he tends to ramble a bit, takes longer to make points than some others. But he has a sterling reputation among those expert in him, was an old time, no nonsense preacher who didn't compromise truth or tickle ears. There's Tozer on YouTube and other places in audio on the web. I've meant to take advantage of this at some point, though have a real bucket list of theologians piled high, already!

just my opinion, but he gets to the point a little more quickly than Spurgeon.

who i love to read.

 

[JesusIsAll]

just my opinion, but he gets to the point a little more quickly than Spurgeon.

who i love to read.

I hear you there, quite so! If you can get past this aspect of Spurgeon, Tozer is a walk in the park. Spurgeon can be a real grind. I've read a couple collections of him and found myself: okay, okay, Shakespeare, let's just get to the juicy part.

 

[psychomom]

I hear you there, quite so! If you can get past this aspect of Spurgeon, Tozer is a walk in the park. Spurgeon can be a real grind. I've read a couple collections of him and found myself: okay, okay, Shakespeare, let's just get to the juicy part.

lol i like Shakespeare, too.

 

[phil112]

It's been a learning experience in spiritual quackery, the web. I never recall, in real life, knowing anybody claiming sinless perfection. I've know holy Joes, a sociopathic sort of control freak "Christian," a Bible thumper who's quick to see what's wrong with everybody else that doesn't conform to their will. You know the type, prophet wannabes, looking for attention and a cult following.

Oddly, such holy Joes most always seem to be found insufferable and abusive in their families, nobody comfortable around them, often adulterous of their spouses: walking, narcissistic hypocrites, dirty laundry piled in that closet. The higher they rise, the harder they fall. Yet the holy Joes I've come across have not claimed sinlessness, despite their pretense of holiness. Maybe it's just implied, something they're smart enough not to go around saying.

Come to find, of the following gem of a video, in words of one of my favorite preachers of old, that this problem has existed for sometime, clearly. You learn something new everyday.

If you've found yourself running across a sinless purveyor of doubt as to the salvation of the Lord, and in slander of your soul, impugning your assurance and relationship to your Lord, this video will much interest you.

Matthew 23:23-4 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

​

Why don't you call me out by name?
I give scripture to support everything I say, and you resort to name calling and insinuating I am an adulterous child-beater. Not one of you can or have debunked Christ's order to "sin no more".
You bring up an old sermon to support your false doctrine. That doesn't trump God's word. What does the bible say about you turning to another man to learn doctrine?

1 John 2:27 "But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."

I'm not interested in being a prophet, I desire no cult following, and I certainly don't crave attention. Just 3 lies you told in one paragraph.
You no doubt think as others do who have posted, since you "liked" their posts, that I think I am perfect.
In the way the bible asks me to be, I am close.

Matthew 5:48 "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."
Perfect:5046 NT - Greek[teleioV]
teleios tel'-i-os from [teloV] - telos 5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with 3588) completeness:--of full age, man, perfect.

Maybe you people should be perfect. How old are you? When are you going to put away childish things and take the gospel seriously?
I'll say it as Christ meant it: Grow up!

 

[JesusIsAll]

lol i like Shakespeare, too.

Surprise, surprise! Actually, you've always seemed sophisticated, for a schiz... I used to love anything I could get my hands on by Harry Ironside.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Why don't you call me out by name?
I give scripture to support everything I say, and you resort to name calling and insinuating I am an adulterous child-beater. Not one of you can or have debunked Christ's order to "sin no more".

Actually, you didn't even cross my mind. Can you see you're displaying quite a bit of paranoid self absorption there? Is there some shoe that fits? It would appear so, but, sorry, that's not my problem.

Tell you what, the way you feel about yourself, maybe you should watch the video, then? Maybe twice? Three times?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So the disciples were doing the same things as the Pharisees in this passage and yet our Lord was not pointing out their evil? Yeah, that really doesn't make any sense. Jesus said what he did in anger because the Pharisees were being hypocrites when they didn't have to be hypocrites. God wants to do the "good work" in you. Sinless perfectionism is taught in the Bible whether you want to believe that or not (See 1 Peter 4:1, Galatians 5:24, Romans 6:14, 2 Peter 2:1, 14, Ephesians 4:17-27).

Proof people do not listen to anything, and come in half cocked thinking they are making a point. when all they have done is made a fool of their self.

Wonder why this modern day pharisee did not even try to refute the main message.

God chastens those whom he loves, proving that Gods children will fall and need the rod of correction to get them back in line

If one is perfect. then there would be no need of correction.