There is no Unpardonable Sin

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Andrew1

Senior Member
May 11, 2013
160
10
18
#1
31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit. (Matthew 12:31-33)

The key phrase in understanding what's going on here is, "for the tree is known by his fruit". This is where Jesus qualified what he was talking about. You see earlier on in verse 24 the Pharisees, witnessing his mighty power accused Jesus of casting out devils by the power of Beelzebub. It was not that blaspheming the Holy Ghost was unforgivable but rather that in the case of the pharisees, who witnessed the power of God through Jesus Christ, had such hard hearts that in spite of what they had witnessed they refused to believe opting rather to blaspheme the work of the Holy Ghost. Blaspheming the Holy Ghost in and of itself though a wicked and reprehensible act is not unforgivable, the context of the passage was that in the case of the pharisees their blasphemy of the Holy Ghost was the fruit which revealed their hearts by which they were condemned well before they actually blasphemed the work of the Holy Ghost performed through Christ. This means that if this is done in a frivolous manner it is no indication that one is beyond salvation.

I write this to encourage anyone who is worried that they might not be saved and are beyond being saved because of some sin they might have committed. The power of God to save is not limited by any sin and he will never turn away anyone who calls on his name in repentance for the remission of their sins. God bless.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,097
6,480
113
#2
uh, ok, so Jesus lied to us........great..........sigh

Good thing you are around to correct His misspeaks
 

Andrew1

Senior Member
May 11, 2013
160
10
18
#3
If you read the passage carefully you will notice that Jesus did not say that blaspheming the Holy Ghost is unforgivable, He said, "shall not be forgiven" not "cannot be forgiven" but it was also in the context of the state of the heart "...for the tree is known by his fruit." Verse 33. The Pharisees exposed the state of their hearts by their unwillingness to acknowledge who Jesus was in spite of witnessing the evidence right in front of them through his miracles. Instead they opted to associate the power of the Holy Ghost with the power of the devil. It wasn't the act of blasphemy itself that damned them but rather their hard and unrepentant hearts which that act revealed.
 
P

phil112

Guest
#4
andrew, if you aren't going to believe the bible, why do you bother to read it?
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
11,645
6,276
113
#5
phil, you and I have disagreed in the past, but you nailed this. good response.
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
14,551
2,171
113
#6
God/Jesus/Holy Spirit speaking to a human heart..... and the response from that human.

Please come to me....No
I want you to come to me.....No
I died for you to come to me......No
Why won't you come to me.......I don't want to...
I am pleading with you to change your mind.......No
I am still here asking won't you change your mind?......No
What more can I do? I still want you to come....will you?........No

When God/Holy Spirit reaches out to a human soul and that person continues to say no......what more can God do for that human?.....It is unpardonable because they don't want it, won't receive it, refuse to accept the free gift of salvation offered....You say no enough you will get what you want......

God pleads with us to turn away from sin and accept the free gift of salvation that is offered......Why will you harden your hearts?
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#7
31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit. (Matthew 12:31-33)

The key phrase in understanding what's going on here is, "for the tree is known by his fruit". This is where Jesus qualified what he was talking about. You see earlier on in verse 24 the Pharisees, witnessing his mighty power accused Jesus of casting out devils by the power of Beelzebub. It was not that blaspheming the Holy Ghost was unforgivable but rather that in the case of the pharisees, who witnessed the power of God through Jesus Christ, had such hard hearts that in spite of what they had witnessed they refused to believe opting rather to blaspheme the work of the Holy Ghost. Blaspheming the Holy Ghost in and of itself though a wicked and reprehensible act is not unforgivable, the context of the passage was that in the case of the pharisees their blasphemy of the Holy Ghost was the fruit which revealed their hearts by which they were condemned well before they actually blasphemed the work of the Holy Ghost performed through Christ. This means that if this is done in a frivolous manner it is no indication that one is beyond salvation.

I write this to encourage anyone who is worried that they might not be saved and are beyond being saved because of some sin they might have committed. The power of God to save is not limited by any sin and he will never turn away anyone who calls on his name in repentance for the remission of their sins. God bless.
Jesus calls it unpardonable because if you reject the witness of the Holy Spirit to Jesus, there is no other provision for your unbelief, for you reject the very thing he gave to show you.

You have placed a bar in your own door.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,097
6,480
113
#8
If you read the passage carefully you will notice that Jesus did not say that blaspheming the Holy Ghost is unforgivable, He said, "shall not be forgiven" not "cannot be forgiven" but it was also in the context of the state of the heart "...for the tree is known by his fruit." Verse 33. The Pharisees exposed the state of their hearts by their unwillingness to acknowledge who Jesus was in spite of witnessing the evidence right in front of them through his miracles. Instead they opted to associate the power of the Holy Ghost with the power of the devil. It wasn't the act of blasphemy itself that damned them but rather their hard and unrepentant hearts which that act revealed.
Dude, given this and the other thread you have going.......it's pretty clear that whatever it is you believe in, it isn't Jesus Christ...........in my opinion...........

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/117368-question-there-innerrant-bible.html

Jesus lied to us, the Bible lies to us........what other wondrous revelations do you have for us
 

Andrew1

Senior Member
May 11, 2013
160
10
18
#9
Jesus calls it unpardonable because if you reject the witness of the Holy Spirit to Jesus, there is no other provision for your unbelief, for you reject the very thing he gave to show you.

You have placed a bar in your own door.
Although if you read the passage you will notice the word "unpardonable" is not used. God can forgive all sins, the pharisees would not be forgiven because they were unwilling to believe in spite of the overwhelming evidence. Their blasphemy against the Holy Ghost was a demonstration of the state of their hearts which was the underlying reason of why they would not be forgiven. Not their blasphemy of the Holy Ghost itself. When the pharisees blasphemed the Holy Ghost they did it in a specific way, by equating the power of the Holy Ghost performed through Christ with the power of Satan. This in and of itself is not unpardonable rather in the case of the pharisees it was a demonstration of the state of their hearts.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,097
6,480
113
#10
Just another "player of word games" among us.............goodness
 

Andrew1

Senior Member
May 11, 2013
160
10
18
#11
Dude, given this and the other thread you have going.......it's pretty clear that whatever it is you believe in, it isn't Jesus Christ...........in my opinion...........

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/117368-question-there-innerrant-bible.html

Jesus lied to us, the Bible lies to us........what other wondrous revelations do you have for us
Your accusations are false, I do believe in an inerrant Bible and I don't believe that Jesus lied to us.
 
V

VioletReigns

Guest
#12
Although if you read the passage you will notice the word "unpardonable" is not used. God can forgive all sins, the pharisees would not be forgiven because they were unwilling to believe in spite of the overwhelming evidence. Their blasphemy against the Holy Ghost was a demonstration of the state of their hearts which was the underlying reason of why they would not be forgiven. Not their blasphemy of the Holy Ghost itself. When the pharisees blasphemed the Holy Ghost they did it in a specific way, by equating the power of the Holy Ghost performed through Christ with the power of Satan. This in and of itself is not unpardonable rather in the case of the pharisees it was a demonstration of the state of their hearts.
Seriously, son - I'm trying to understand what you're saying but it sounds like double talk. You're saying they were guilty of committing blasphemy and then you say they're not really guilty... it's just their hearts are hard. :confused: Your post is confusing to me, Andrew.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,097
6,480
113
#13
Your accusations are false, I do believe in an inerrant Bible and I don't believe that Jesus lied to us.
Given your two threads, there has been no evidence of this so far...........just word games...........
 

seraphprincess

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2011
109
5
18
#14
Do you really think its that simple? I suffered for years from mental illness, I was depressed, stressed and hurting. The news upset me, the evil world broke my heart. I had a hard time in school, sometimes I blamed my problems on God. I come from a good, loving Christian family. I have been a Christian pratically all my life. I graduated from school, mental problems grew worse. I some of the medicine I have to take has strange affects. I go nuts. I tried going to church, reading my Bible, praying. It does help.

I became shocked by the violence, bloodthirstiness, cruelty, harshness, God comes across as harsh in the old testament. But I love Psalms, Proverbs and new testament. It hurt to read that, I became afraid and angry with God, I asked 'how could you?"

I got involved with fantasy novels and games, I wanted to write Christian fantasy stories. I like mythical characters like dragons, unicorns, and fairies. I had a Christian dragon character, she was a jewel dragon named Seraphina Starfire.

I discovered the hypocrisy of the southern baptist church I was rasied in. My parents became disillusioned, they discovered the hypocrisy and bigotry of the baptists. We stopped going to baptist churches.

When I got really bad off, I was in a mental hospital, and I had a nightmare where I blashpemed and cursed at God. It was scary. I have had a bunch of weird dreams, a lot of them are scary nightmares. I realized only Jesus Christ can heal me of my problems. It was His love that gave me the strength to survive.


God forgives. He taught me what love is in 1 Cor. 13. My parents love me. I went to a Methodist church today. I will show the same mercy and love the Lord showed me to everyone else.
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#15
Oh, Andrew, why can't you read Scripture for what it says, and not what you WANT it to say?
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
2,987
1,014
113
New Zealand
#16
You know,

Jesus was not talking to people who were converted when he was referring to the unpardonable sin.

The pharisees were rejecting initial salvation from Jesus. They were anti-Jesus.

There is no unpardonable sin for people who are converted. There is the unpardonable sin of rejecting Christ's gift of eternal life to begin with.



Notice:

(Mat 12:25) And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:


(Mat 12:26) And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?


(Mat 12:27) And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.


(Mat 12:28) But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.


(Mat 12:29) Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

Mat 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
Mat 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
Mat 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.



Key points:

1) Jesus is addressing the Pharisees- hardened, non believers.. attributing to Jesus the devil's work
2) How is that all sin and blasphemy can be forgiven men.. but not against the Holy Spirit? Maybe rejecting the Holy Spirit is rejecting the means by which someone is given eternal life?

How could this be attributed to believers? This passage isn't about believers rejecting the Holy Spirit. It's about the Pharisees being hard hearted rejecting Jesus' status as God!
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
2,987
1,014
113
New Zealand
#17
Do you really think its that simple? I suffered for years from mental illness, I was depressed, stressed and hurting. The news upset me, the evil world broke my heart. I had a hard time in school, sometimes I blamed my problems on God. I come from a good, loving Christian family. I have been a Christian pratically all my life. I graduated from school, mental problems grew worse. I some of the medicine I have to take has strange affects. I go nuts. I tried going to church, reading my Bible, praying. It does help.



I became shocked by the violence, bloodthirstiness, cruelty, harshness, God comes across as harsh in the old testament. But I love Psalms, Proverbs and new testament. It hurt to read that, I became afraid and angry with God, I asked 'how could you?"

I got involved with fantasy novels and games, I wanted to write Christian fantasy stories. I like mythical characters like dragons, unicorns, and fairies. I had a Christian dragon character, she was a jewel dragon named Seraphina Starfire.

I discovered the hypocrisy of the southern baptist church I was rasied in. My parents became disillusioned, they discovered the hypocrisy and bigotry of the baptists. We stopped going to baptist churches.

When I got really bad off, I was in a mental hospital, and I had a nightmare where I blashpemed and cursed at God. It was scary. I have had a bunch of weird dreams, a lot of them are scary nightmares. I realized only Jesus Christ can heal me of my problems. It was His love that gave me the strength to survive.


God forgives. He taught me what love is in 1 Cor. 13. My parents love me. I went to a Methodist church today. I will show the same mercy and love the Lord showed me to everyone else.

Hypocrisy and bigotry of the baptists?

You going to lump all baptist with that? No matter what kind?

Remember there are other baptists aside from the Southern Baptists.

I seriously doubt you are going to encounter bigotry and hypocrisy with EVERY church calling itself baptist.

I am independent missionary baptist.. and haven't encountered that at all in my church. Most of the independent missionary baptist churches I know also have very little of that.

Before you lump all baptists in the same box.. think about it.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#18
Elin said:
Jesus calls it unpardonable because
if you reject the Holy Spirit's witness to Jesus, there is no other provision for your unbelief, for you reject the very thing he gave to convince you.

You have put a bar in your own door
.
Although if you read the passage you will notice the word "unpardonable" is not used.
"Forgiveness" is "pardon."

Unbelief is "unforgiveable" and "unpardonable" at the Final Judgment.

God can forgive all sins,
God cannot forgive unbelief if he does not want to make himself an unjust liar.

the pharisees would not be forgiven because they were unwilling to believe in spite of the overwhelming evidence. Their blasphemy against the Holy Ghost was a demonstration of the state of their hearts which was the underlying reason of why they would not be forgiven. Not their blasphemy of the Holy Ghost itself. When the pharisees blasphemed the Holy Ghost they did it in a specific way, by
equating the power of the Holy Ghost performed through Christ with the power of Satan.
Yes, and in attributing the work of the Holy Spirit to Satan, they made it impossible to accept the Holy Spirit's witness to Jesus. . .putting a bar in their own door.

This in and of itself is not unpardonable rather in the case of the pharisees it was a demonstration of the state of their hearts.
Wrong. . .Jesus said it will not be forgiven (Mt 12:31-32).
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#19
"Forgiveness" is "pardon."

Unbelief is "unforgiveable" and "unpardonable" at the Final Judgment.



God cannot forgive unbelief if he does not want to make himself an unjust liar.


Yes, and in attributing the work of the Holy Spirit to Satan, they made it impossible to accept the Holy Spirit's witness to Jesus. . .putting a bar in their own door.


Wrong. . .Jesus said it will not be forgiven (Mt 12:31-32).
I doubt this could have been said any more plainly and directly.
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#20
Go read Acts 5:1-10 about what happened to Ananias and Sapphira for doing blasphemy of the Holy Spirit by directly lying to Him.........