Rejoinder to the call out thread about Me

[SeaBass]

I do not know what happened to the call out thread about me but I spent time responding to it and here is the result of that time of mine spent:

This is last post to you two, and those like-minded.

One one the main reasons why I must stop posting to you both, is because, when I read your posts, I feel a weight of oppression and spiritual darkness that emanates from them. It may sound silly, but it's simply too much of a drain on my spirit.

You two refuse to accept the simplicity of the gospel - the good news that we can be reconciled to God through His free gift of salvation - and then turn it on it's head before placing chains around it. You not only have shackled yourselves, you attempt to shackle others. There is no freedom in Christ as far as you two are concerned.

You spiritually hand believers a plow, crack the whip at their backs, and demand they work, work, work for their salvation. You place cold fear into their hearts - a dread of salvation lost - if they don't conform to the rigid demands you claim come from God.

There is no room for grace in your theology - there is only work.

Christ came to set captives free, while you two strive to enslave them again with your works-based salvation. You are like slaves on a plantation who have been granted freedom, but refuse to move beyond the fence. Instead, you build your cabins on the slave-master's land, while claiming all the while that you are free indeed.

It's very sad and unfortunate you allowed yourself to become blinded by the false teachings of men. I cannot help you but maybe I can help others from falling into this hole of false man made teachings.

You two say that without works one cannot be saved.

The bible says such and I can only repeat what the bible says. I have been on this particular forum for over a year and no one here has yet produced the verse that says "do nothing and thou shalt be saved" for such a verse exist only in the imagination.

The Bible says: "Now, when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness...unto whom God imputes righteousness without works." (Romans 4:4-6)

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/96618-context-romans-4-4-5-a-35.html

I started a thread dedicated to this very passage showing how those as yourself pull "worketh not" out of the context. isolate from all other passages (as Rom 6:16-18 where Paul put obeying BEFORE freed from sin) then falsely proclaim salvation is not of works. Left IN CONTEXT paul is talking about two different tpyes of works, works of merit in trying to earn salvation which was what Abraham "worketh not". The other work is faithful obedience which Abraham did have and by those faithful obedient works he was justified. If all works are the same then how can Abraham be one that "worketh not" when he clearly DID do obedient works Heb 11:8,18; Gen 26:5. You create contradictions with the bible by pulling "worketh not" from its context tehn trying to isolate from all the other verses that require obedience to God to be saved.

You two claim faith in Christ isn't enough to remain saved.

Faith in Christ will save "not by faith only", James 2:24. A clear verse that shows faith only does not justify.

The Bible says: "Where is the boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith." (Romans 3:27)

If we are indeed saved by faith, then by faith we remain saved. For faith, just like grace, is God's gift as well.

"law of works" refer to the law of Moses which the Jews went about trying to flawlessly keep where by they ould merit salvation and have something to boast about

"Law of faith" refers to NT gospel of Christ which one must be obedient to be saved for God has vengeance upon those that "obey not the gospel of Christ" 2 Thess 1:8. Being obedient to the gospel is not something one can boast about. For me to be saved required that Someone die for me. Christ (Deity) dying for me (a sinner) is nothing I can boast about, all I can do is humbly submit in obedience to that One Who died for me in order for Him to save me, Heb 5:9.

"By faith we are saved through faith, and not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. Not of works, lest any man should boast." (Ephesians 2:8,9)

--You again rip "not of works" out of context isolate it from all other bible texts that require works to be saved (Rom 6:16-18; Jn 6:27).

--You do not realize that faith itself is a work, 1 Thess 1:3 "work of faith"; Mk 2:1-5 Jesus saw their faith/works those men did.

--you do not realize "not of works" excludes works of merit in trying to keep the law flawlessly but does not exclude ALL works as obedience to God or the good works EPh 2:10 require for a Christian to maintain his salvation.

You two attempt to nullify the grace of God by stuffing the gift of salvation with works. You both claim works are part of the deal.

The Bible says: "So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. And if by grace, then it is no longer works; and if it were, grace would no longer be grace." (Romans 11:5,6)

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/94634-free-gifts-come-conditions.html

I dedicated the above thread giving examples FROM THE BIBLE where grace INCLUDE-REQUIRED WORKS yet the works did not, could not earn the grace.

You two claim that salvation requires works to maintain, but here is the only "work" that Jesus asks of us:

" 'What must we do to do the work that God requires?' Jesus answered, 'The work of God is this: to believe on the one He has sent' " (John 6:28,29)

Did Jesus add more? No. If more than belief (faith) were required, He certainly would have taken that opportunity to say so.

Simple faith is required for salvation, and through that simple faith, God grants us eternal life.

Eph 2:10 GOD requires the Christian do good works GOD before ordained that the group Christian would do good works so it is IMPOSSIBLE for one to become a Christian and remain saved if he does not do good works. Those on this forum here have floundered around in darkness for months trying to find a way to get a Christian to maintain his salvation without having to do any works.

No where did Christ ever require one to believe only to be saved.

Jn 3:16----------belief>>>>>>>>>>>>>saves
Lk 13:3---------repent>>>>>>>>>>>>not perish/saves
Mt 10:32,33---confession>>>>>>>>>>>saves
Mk 16:16------baptism>>>>>>>>>>>>saves

Since there is just ONE way to be saves that can only mean belief INCLUDES repentance, confession and baptism. If you try and get one saved by bleif only that is void of repentance confession and baptism then you are trying to do the impossible in trying to save the impenitent, denier of Christ lost in his unforgiven sins.

Eternal.

Not "eternal-until-you-stop-working-for-it."

"And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith.." (Galatians 3:8)

Through faith NOT through a dead faith only.

"For you are all children of God by faith in Christ Jesus." (Galatians 3:26)

By faith NOT by a dead faith only.

We are, "kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation." (1 Peter 1:4,5)

through faith NOT through a dead faith only.

Again, James 2:24 faith only does not justify.

You will not see:


Faith>>>>>>>>>>>>>>saves
repentance>>>>>>>>>>saves
confession>>>>>>>>>>saves
baptism>>>>>>>>>>>>saves

then faith must include repentance confession and baptism. No verse says faith only says for the bible says
grace saves
repentance saves
confession saves
baptism saves
hope saves
the engrafted word saves
preaching saves
etc etc
How one can blindly conclude faith obny saves when the bible plainly speaks of many different things that save?

Jesus said, "all who come to me, I will in no way cast out." (John 6:37)

What do you think Jesus meant by "no way"?

You two love to twist that by saying, "Jesus may not cast us out, but we can cast ourselves out!"

Why did Jesus mean by coming to Him? That verb 'cometh" is present tense denoting the coming to Christ must be ongoing continuous and if one quits coming to Christ he can be cast out. No verse says will not cast out those that quit coming to him.
Eternal secuirts CONTINUE to overlook the present tense.

The Bible says: "Nothing in all creation can separate us from God's love." (Romans 8:39)

Are we created beings? Are you two?

Then even we ourselves cannot be separated from God through bad works, lack of works, or otherwise.

Jude 1:21 no sense in the COMMAND for the Christian to keep himself in the love of God if he cannot ever be separated from God's love.

...."Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature....separate us"...any other creature, creatures OTHER than than myself for I can remove myself from the love of God. Being in the love of God is CONDITIONAL upon one obeying the commands of God, Jn 14:21 and is NEVER UNconditional.

Jesus put the final nail in your works coffin by saying: "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish: No person can snatch them out of my hand." (John 10:28)

You two claim eternal life is conditional based upon our works. Jesus said He gives it to us - it is not earned. You two claim believers can be lost. Jesus said we can never perish. You two claim we can remove ourselves from God's family. Jesus said no one can do it (not even ourselves). Unless, of course, you believe people are not persons.

You two claim salvation can be lost and the believer will once again come into condemnation.

The abuse of Jn 10:28 eternal securists have done to this verse has been debunked so many times by myself and others I am not even sure it's worth my time showing that abuse again. What I will say is if you can lift Jn 10:28 out of context and add eternal security to it, then there is nothing to stop anyone from lifting any verse out of context and adding whatever they want to to that verse. Verse 27 shows WHO God holds in His hand and WHY he will not let them be plucked out and eternal security is not even remotely found in the passages but is being assumed and added to the passage.

]quote=budman]The Bible says we can never again come into condemnation. (John 5:24)

Before I end this, God has placed it upon my heart to apologize to you two for mocking you in a few of my posts. It was childish, and it was wrong. I am sorry.

May God open your eyes to what is truly the good news: we are justified/saved by grace through faith alone, in Jesus alone. It is a gift.

A gift.[/QUOTE]

Once again, you willfully overlook the present tense of the verbs heareth and believeth, so long as one CONTINUES to hear and believe he hath everlasting life. The present tense of this verse, Jn 6:27 along with other verses has been demonstrated to you before but you close your eyes to it.

 

[WebersHome]

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Has turning the other cheek gone out of vogue?

================================

 

[sparkman]

I advise putting Seabass on ignore and letting him spout his nonsense. That's what I've done with a number of individuals who claim to be sinless.

Sinless perfectionists are simply lying or deceived. I John 1 is very clear about that, and despite their attempts to import a false context, nothing will change it.

I find that they are also the most miserable people to be around, and many of them don't even fellowship due to their superiority complex. As Luke indicates, they "stand by themselves".

The only reason to refute them is to prevent younger believers from getting discouraged. They are bulletproof to their own doctrinal error.

Like I said on the other thread, I wonder why he bothers to chat here, except to accuse others.

Luke 18 [SUP]9 [/SUP]He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: [SUP]10 [/SUP]“Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. [SUP]11 [/SUP]The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed[SUP][a][/SUP] thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. [SUP]12 [/SUP]I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ [SUP]13 [/SUP]But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ [SUP]14 [/SUP]I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

 

[sparkman]

SAINTS WHO SINNED
Scripture is very clear about the shortcomings of believers. Here are some examples of believers who sinned:
· Abraham lied and showed a lack of faith when he said Sarai was his sister rather than wife (Genesis 12)
· Noah got drunk after the Flood (Genesis 9)
· David committed adultery with Bathsheba and had her husband killed (2 Samuel 11)
· Samson had sex with a prostitute (Judges 16:1)
· Peter denied Christ three times, and committed the sin of favoritism (Matt 26, Gal 2:11-13)
· The Corinthian man was involved in sexual activity with his stepmother (I Corinthians 5)
· The Corinthian congregation committed sin in ignoring the activity between the man and his wife (I Corinthians 5)
The fact that saints committed sin doesn’t justify our sins, but simply point to the fact that we are all human and stray from God at times and sin.

 

[SeaBass]

I advise putting Seabass on ignore and letting him spout his nonsense. That's what I've done with a number of individuals who claim to be sinless.

Sinless perfectionists are simply lying or deceived. I John 1 is very clear about that, and despite their attempts to import a false context, nothing will change it.

I find that they are also the most miserable people to be around, and many of them don't even fellowship due to their superiority complex. As Luke indicates, they "stand by themselves".

The only reason to refute them is to prevent younger believers from getting discouraged. They are bulletproof to their own doctrinal error.

Like I said on the other thread, I wonder why he bothers to chat here, except to accuse others.

Luke 18 [SUP]9 [/SUP]He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: [SUP]10 [/SUP]“Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. [SUP]11 [/SUP]The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed[SUP][a][/SUP] thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. [SUP]12 [/SUP]I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ [SUP]13 [/SUP]But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ [SUP]14 [/SUP]I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

You seem to have confused me with other posters pushing sinless perfection.

 

[sparkman]

You seem to have confused me with other posters pushing sinless perfection.

Sorry about that. I misread your comment. You were commenting to someone else and I mistook your comments for your opinion. You asked a rhetorical question. My apologies.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

You seem to have confused me with other posters pushing sinless perfection.

Yea, how dare anyone preach forgiveness of all your sins, repenting of all sin, and seeking to be perfect.

Matthew 5:48 "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

 

[notuptome]

Yea, how dare anyone preach forgiveness of all your sins, repenting of all sin, and seeking to be perfect.

Matthew 5:48 "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

How do you get sinless from that verse?

Poor exegesis.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[SeaBass]

Yea, how dare anyone preach forgiveness of all your sins, repenting of all sin, and seeking to be perfect.

Matthew 5:48 "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Hi,

The Christian can be perfect, and holy and without blame Eph 1:4, 2 Pet 3:14.

Yet the only way the Christian can be perfect spotless and blameless is by walking in the light:

1 Jn 1:7 "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."

The continuous walking in the light results in a continuous washing away of all sins by the blood of Christ and it is that continuous cleansing away of ALL SIN that leaves the Christian perfect, spotless, blameless. If the Christian could not sin then this verse is pointless and senseless for the Christian would not have to walk in the light to have his sins that do not exist to be washed away. Yet not walking in the light would be a sin for the Christian yet the PURPOSE of that walking in the light is to wash away sins.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Hi,

The Christian can be perfect, and holy and without blame Eph 1:4, 2 Pet 3:14.

Yet the only way the Christian can be perfect spotless and blameless is by walking in the light:

1 Jn 1:7 "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."

The continuous walking in the light results in a continuous washing away of all sins by the blood of Christ and it is that continuous cleansing away of ALL SIN that leaves the Christian perfect, spotless, blameless. If the Christian could not sin then this verse is pointless and senseless for the Christian would not have to walk in the light to have his sins that do not exist to be washed away. Yet not walking in the light would be a sin for the Christian yet the PURPOSE of that walking in the light is to wash away sins.

Yea, my comment was being a bit sarcastic because in these forums Jesus Christ would be accused of preaching "sinless perfection." LOL

 

[sparkman]

Yea, my comment was being a bit sarcastic because in these forums Jesus Christ would be accused of preaching "sinless perfection." LOL

He has more credibility than those who do preach it here.

 

[wattie]

The always ignored fact:

'perfect' in the bible.. is

1) defined by the context the word is in... If someone is 'perfecting' something.. that doesn't mean they have got it 100 percent. There is also the 'perfect tense'- which is part of English grammar.. and refers to something coming to completion.. again not about 100 percent perfection.

2) the Greek behind the word in the likes of the Strong's Concordance is about the above kind of definition..

- coming to maturity -completeness -growth in moral character... etc..


The English idea of perfection being 100 percent pure.. is foreign to the biblical concept of 'perfect'.. unless the context is about Jesus !

 

[dcontroversal]

Yea, how dare anyone preach forgiveness of all your sins, repenting of all sin, and seeking to be perfect.

Matthew 5:48 "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Why not study the word perfect from a 1st century Greek speaking perspective and come to the truth.....!

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Why not study the word perfect from a 1st century Greek speaking perspective and come to the truth.....!

Does the words of Jesus offend?

Matthew 11:6
And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.

 

[dcontroversal]

Does the words of Jesus offend?

Matthew 11:6
And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.

No they dont, and I understand the word perfect means complete and that is how it was understood by a first centruy believer as opposed to those who reject the original INSPIRED word and the meaning thereof! So how about you? One of these days you will find out that you missed the mark on quite a few truths because of your inability to simpy acknowledge the inspired words of God!

 

[Tintin]

Sometimes it's not all about that Bass. No trouble.

 

[gb9]

Does the words of Jesus offend?

Matthew 11:6
And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.

no, they do not offend, but we need to rightly understand them, not just apply what YOU think they mean.

 

[dcontroversal]

Does the words of Jesus offend?

Matthew 11:6
And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.

No actually fools who twist words to fit their false theology fires me up pal!