Faith without works is dead

ElizabethPeter · Jul 11, 2015

Repeatedly in the book of James, the phrase "faith without works is dead" or be it something similar. Many Christians use this verse as a form of motivation to do good deeds and works and what not so that they can satisfy God, and in their minds, not be dead. But what does this phrase actually mean?

See, our works can't save us. They never could and they never will be able to. And that's what God wants us to know. He wants us to know that over and over again, despite who you are or who you think you are. God gave us the Law to hold on to and portray, no? But what is the main purpose of the Law? To make us realize who we really, truly are; sinners. (Galatians 3:19)

This Law that God gave us, wasn't so that we could keep and try to be perfect with, it was so that we could come to the realization that no matter how hard we try, and no matter how much effort we put, we could never keep the Law, therefore we could never save ourselves. With that, God established one thing; we can't keep the Law, but Christ can. And He did. That's why Christ came down to this lowly life. Not only for taking our sins at His baptism and then dying for us and resurrecting, but also because He did the one thing we could never do; keep the Law. He did this on our behalf, and that's something God wants us to know. Christ played His part, and did it perfectly, if I might add. So now, it's our turn.

Here's where I put two and two together. The term "faith" means to believe without seeing. What God simply wants us to do, is believe in what Christ has done for us, and how He did it and know why He did it. That's it. The moment we have faith to believe, the gift of the Holy Spirit is given to us. Now, when the Holy Spirit is in us, manifestation needs to take place. Because all that Christ is, becomes who we are, and we need to permeate this aroma known as Jesus. Now this is the works that God speaks of.

Not the one where you put in all your effort to do good and then gain the fame and acknowledgement from the people around you. Not that it's not good, but it's not what God is asking for. What He wants us to do is to be a disciple, to preach and spread this Gospel. When we are able to talk about this Gospel, whole-heartedly, not by our works or deeds, but by the Spirit of God, then we know that we have faith, and works.

I'm not sure if what I've said has managed to make an impact on anyone, but it's all by God's will as to what happens. Just to clarify once again, our fleshly works can't ever save us because from dust we came, to dust we go. If it could save us, there'd be no point in Christ sending Jesus when we could save ourselves. Spiritual works is what God wants, as it's simply the act of the Holy Spirit that causes this faith to grow.

mailmandan · Jul 11, 2015

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to back up his claim, no demonstrative evidence). This is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith. Now of course, James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine.

James is discussing the proof of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-6). Works bear out the justification that already came by faith. Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not on the merits of our works. It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony.*

MsLimpet · Jul 11, 2015

James 2:18 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

show me thy faith apart from thy works, and I by my works will show thee my faith.—Faith, actually and literally, cannot be seen. It's existence is evidenced only through the works which it produces. James demands of his objector that he show his faith (if he thinks it can exist in this fashion) apart from works. This, of course, was impossible, and constituted additional evidence of the truth of the thesis, that faith, without works, is dead. Faith and works, in the religious realm, are so related, that one cannot long exist without the other. One comes forth from the other, and each depends, for its effectiveness, on the other.

Faith, without works, is dead, works, without faith, cannot bless, either. So the objection is invalid, in that it is based on the assumption that faith can exist apart from works, untrue premise. Works may be seen.These may be offered in evidence of faith which cannot be seen. Faith cannot be seen, one without works cannot offer proof of the faith which he alleges to have.

It is idle for one to expect salvation short of complete submission to God's will. (Matt. 7:21; 1 John 2:4; Heb. 5:9.) It is also important to remember that these words are not limited to the alien sinner. Faith, apart from works, whether possessed by an alien or a member of the church is powerless to bless. As Christians, we are to "work out" our own salvation with fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), and those to be privileged to enjoy the happiness of the eternal city are those who have kept his commandments (Rev. 22:13

notuptome · Jul 11, 2015

I always find it amusing when all these great theological theories are put forth. How many of these vital things did you comprehend when you came to Christ and asked Him to save you?

Are we not guilty of attempting to disciple folks before the Lord saves them? When I came to Christ the only things that the Holy Spirit made abundantly clear to me were the fact that I was a sinner, that my sin condemned me to eternal hell fire, and the reason Christ Who was perfect died on Calvary was to atone for my sins. Jesus rose from the dead on the third day to prove He was the Son of God. the bodily resurrection of Christ was to promise to me that He would save me and give me eternal life through the forgiveness of my sins.

We ought to delight in the simplicity of the gospel and cease from attempting to hammer folks into zombie like obedience to what we believe.

If God truly spoke to you through the word of God and by the Holy Spirit why do we not trust Him to speak to every soul we witness to the same way?

Forget about all the formalities of religion and just declare the simple gospel whereby men must be saved.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Word_Swordsman · Jul 11, 2015

Believing by faith must be followed by living by faith, which if consistent leads to fruit bearing that pleases God. Lacking fruit, the branch is purged (improved by trimming off bad parts). If that fails to produce much fruit, the branch is pruned off as useless, burned up. The Lord is looking for works of the born-again genre to replace dead works of sin, and even "good" works employed to substitute for faith.
John 15:1-8 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

If there is no spiritual fruit, there is no spiritual faith. Works/fruit can't produce faith, like the fruit can't produce its own branch.

A seed is planted, watered, and a plant emerges. It is in a sense born from the dead. But if it is to live and produce much fruit, it requires some advantages, or is likely to wither away or exist for no good purpose. Cultivation makes the plant stronger. Removing competitive weeds, watering, providing nutrition is somewhat like what is needed to make disciples of the Lord. The aim is to move them from simple faith in Christ to fruit bearing as soon as possible so they can be equipped to do the work of the Kingdom of God.

Advance from a basic belief in Christ and his work on the cross to a life that demonstrates true faith. Be about the Master's business. Too many never get around to that, yet claim to believe. In quoting James on this topic it is curious why the avoidance of
James 2:19 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

The devils never get around to living by faith to produce godly works that produce godly fruit.

Joidevivre · Jul 11, 2015

I realized long ago that faith, itself, is a work.

Do you realize how much work it is to hold on to faith when things are disintegrating all around you, when you lose all bodily functions or become permanently disabled, when your prayers seem like they fall to the ground, and when you don't even feel the presence of God?

kaylagrl · Jul 11, 2015

We are saved BY faith FOR good works

Gr8grace · Jul 11, 2015

I am wholly thankful for the day I realized that it was not my faith that saved me. Christ did. My faith doesn't keep me, Christ does.

kaylagrl · Jul 11, 2015

Gr8grace said:

I may be misunderstanding...Jesus saves of course but it takes faith on our part to believe and receive His free gift.Is that not so?

seed_time_harvest · Jul 11, 2015

MsLimpet said:

Remember that when it comes to salvation GOD doesn't need to see physical works.

GOD looks at your faith and faith alone for salvation.

If you remain alive and in your body on the earth after you get saved and your faith is true it will show by your works to men.

GOD looks at the heart

Men look at the outward appearances.

+++++++++
Romans 4:1-2
king James version(KJV)

1.) What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2.)For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

ember · Jul 11, 2015

Gr8grace said:

I can only say yes to this.

23“ ‘If you can’?” said Jesus. “Everything is possible for one who believes.”24Immediately the boy’s father exclaimed, “I do believe; help me overcome my unbelief!” Mark 9

Gr8grace · Jul 11, 2015

kaylagrl said:

Yes we make the choice. But the moment we do that Christ buys us, we are not our own, He seals us and He is faithful.

my faith may be dead at some point but He is not.

crossnote · Jul 11, 2015

We don't produce fruit but God within us does.

1 Corinthians 3:6-7 (NET)
6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God caused it to grow.
7 So neither the one who plants counts for anything, nor the one who waters, but God who causes the growth.

John 15:5 (NET) “I am the vine; you are the branches. The one who remains in me – and I in him – bears much fruit, because apart from me you can accomplish nothing.

Those who are His have the Holy Spirit and WILL produce fruit...only the amount of fruit may differ.

Gr8grace · Jul 11, 2015

crossnote said:

I see it as the believer SHOULD produce fruit. If it is WILL produce fruit. than our fruit plays a part in salvation.

And the person who in his last breath believes on the Lord Jesus Christ would not be saved if it is WILL produce fruit.

seed_time_harvest · Jul 11, 2015

Gr8grace said:

I don't want to put words in your mouth so if I am wrong please correct me

I think you are saying that it was the Grace of GOD that saved you?

Gr8grace said:

You probably meant to say my faith didn't save me, but it was the Grace of GOD.

and we have access to this grace through faith.

+++++++++
Colossians 2:6
king James version(KJV)

6.)As ye have therefore received CHRIST JESUS the LORD, so walk ye in him:
+++++++++

I used this scripture when I saw "my faith doesn't keep me"

Gr8grace · Jul 11, 2015

seed_time_harvest said:

I should clarify. When I was saved, none taught me eternal security. So I was always pretty sure that I was secure, but who I was learning under always threw James in there and planted a little doubt in my head.

"Faith is dead with outworks".........was taught as you probably were not saved then.

So when I learned eternal security and how faith doesn't save us, Christ does............it clicked.

And yes I do use Christ and Grace as synonymous.

My faith doesn't keep me saved, Grace does. So I was taught(falsely) at the beginning of my salvation that it was my personal faith that kept me safe, Not His Grace.

crossnote · Jul 11, 2015

Gr8grace said:

When a person embraces Christ Jesus as their Savior, they are saved (transferred from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of light ), they then receive the Holy Spirit and fruit ensues. It really isn't 'our' fruit but His.

atwhatcost · Jul 11, 2015

ElizabethPeter said:

Repeatedly in the book of James, the phrase "faith without works is dead" or be it something similar. Many Christians use this verse as a form of motivation to do good deeds and works and what not so that they can satisfy God, and in their minds, not be dead. But what does this phrase actually mean?

See, our works can't save us. They never could and they never will be able to. And that's what God wants us to know. He wants us to know that over and over again, despite who you are or who you think you are. God gave us the Law to hold on to and portray, no? But what is the main purpose of the Law? To make us realize who we really, truly are; sinners. (Galatians 3:19)

This Law that God gave us, wasn't so that we could keep and try to be perfect with, it was so that we could come to the realization that no matter how hard we try, and no matter how much effort we put, we could never keep the Law, therefore we could never save ourselves. With that, God established one thing; we can't keep the Law, but Christ can. And He did. That's why Christ came down to this lowly life. Not only for taking our sins at His baptism and then dying for us and resurrecting, but also because He did the one thing we could never do; keep the Law. He did this on our behalf, and that's something God wants us to know. Christ played His part, and did it perfectly, if I might add. So now, it's our turn.

Here's where I put two and two together. The term "faith" means to believe without seeing. What God simply wants us to do, is believe in what Christ has done for us, and how He did it and know why He did it. That's it. The moment we have faith to believe, the gift of the Holy Spirit is given to us. Now, when the Holy Spirit is in us, manifestation needs to take place. Because all that Christ is, becomes who we are, and we need to permeate this aroma known as Jesus. Now this is the works that God speaks of.

Not the one where you put in all your effort to do good and then gain the fame and acknowledgement from the people around you. Not that it's not good, but it's not what God is asking for. What He wants us to do is to be a disciple, to preach and spread this Gospel. When we are able to talk about this Gospel, whole-heartedly, not by our works or deeds, but by the Spirit of God, then we know that we have faith, and works.

I'm not sure if what I've said has managed to make an impact on anyone, but it's all by God's will as to what happens. Just to clarify once again, our fleshly works can't ever save us because from dust we came, to dust we go. If it could save us, there'd be no point in Christ sending Jesus when we could save ourselves. Spiritual works is what God wants, as it's simply the act of the Holy Spirit that causes this faith to grow.

Truthfully, I didn't read your sermon once I figured out it was a sermon. You may be dead on, but I still don't count it worth reading for the obvious reason.

You're a 17 year old woman who refuses any form of submission. (Not from a church, not from anyone but what you think might be God.) And yet you've set yourself up to teach older folks and men. I firmly believe in Titus 2, and you obviously don't. So, what you say may well be accurate. It's not sober.

Gr8grace · Jul 11, 2015

crossnote said:

I agree Crossnote. What is your take on Grieving and quenching the Spirit? IMO, our personal volition can grieve(Sin) or quench(human good/religion) the Spirit and we no longer are allowing the Spirit to work through us.

I am just using my experience to go on and what I have seen.

for me personally, When I was saved I immediately quenched the Spirit, I went into religion. Didn't even know what I was doing. So for the first 8 years of being a Christian I can guarantee you I produced no fruit(But I was saved). I didn't even know how to be filled or walk in the Spirit!

after getting out of religion, and was taught some truth I can now see it. And I know for a fact if I would of died in that religious garbage, I would of still went to heaven.......and I had no fruits, because we have to walk and be filled with the Spirit to produce DIVINE good. I had no clue on how to that when I was in religion.

If we grieve or quench the Spirit we cannot produce divine good. And I had the Spirit quenched and didn't know how to get back into the Spirit.......so I had no divine works, just my human good or dirty rags.

crossnote · Jul 11, 2015

Gr8grace said:

I agree Crossnote. What is your take on Grieving and quenching the Spirit? IMO, our personal volition can grieve(Sin) or quench(human good/religion) the Spirit and we no longer are allowing the Spirit to work through us.

I am just using my experience to go on and what I have seen.

for me personally, When I was saved I immediately quenched the Spirit, I went into religion. Didn't even know what I was doing. So for the first 8 years of being a Christian I can guarantee you I produced no fruit(But I was saved). I didn't even know how to be filled or walk in the Spirit!

after getting out of religion, and was taught some truth I can now see it. And I know for a fact if I would of died in that religious garbage, I would of still went to heaven.......and I had no fruits, because we have to walk and be filled with the Spirit to produce DIVINE good. I had no clue on how to that when I was in religion.

If we grieve or quench the Spirit we cannot produce divine good. And I had the Spirit quenched and didn't know how to get back into the Spirit.......so I had no divine works, just my human good or dirty rags.

We continually grieve the Spirit but His grace is greater...especially for His children...

Hebrews 12:6 (NET) “For the Lord disciplines the one he loves and chastises every son he accepts.”

Faith without works is dead

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