Pre-tribulation raptiure or post-tribulation rapture?

jh611 · Jul 12, 2015

I am confused by this topic. I have read multiple biblical scriptures that indicate either might occur. Can someone please shed their thoughts on this and explain what makes them feel this way? My feeling could go either way...
on one hand, God is love... and would a God of love allow his followers and true believers to suffer a tribulation?
On the other hand we are already suffering and I feel god allows us pains to "bring us down a notch.." as Christians in America I feel I am somewhat a spoiled brat. Well, I dont know if that is the right term or not, but in this country Christianity is not widely encouraged and it is brushed off frequently. Because of this it is hard to keep a mindset on living a Christlike life and not giving in the all the sinful temptations currently out there. Make sense. My point is, I understand why difficult times are necessary, it brings me closer to My Father.
Please help me clear this confusion.

flob · Jul 12, 2015

both'll happen, to wrap up this age.
I mean the first rapture is the reason He Does begin the end.
His Bride is what Christ has been for the whole time, on the positive side,
Gen 1:26; Rv 12:5; 14:1-5;
and The 3 1/2 year Tribulation ripens the wheat left behind,
14:14-16; 12:14, 17

atwhatcost · Jul 12, 2015

jh611 said:

Actually, you really haven't read that. You've read isolated scriptures given to you by someone to support his view. Easy solution -- do a word study on the word "rapture" in the Bible. Yeah, I know. "No such word," but there really is. Rapture comes from he Latin word rapturo -- caught up. So do a word study on "caught up" and then read the context. It just utterly destroys any modern day concept of "Rapture." (And Rapture really is just modern day invented stuff.)

Then you are no longer stuck fighting such a useless argument. (Why is it useless? Look what becomes of this thread, and then notice the one thing in common with those fighting the hardest to prove-a-point -- God got dropped to the side while they figure this all out just right. What better way to waste a Christian's time then to have them play games with the Bible without ever dealing with God in that Bible.)

valiant · Jul 12, 2015

jh611 said:

Tribulation is the lot of the people of God, as Jesus said, 'in the world you will have tribulation, but be of good cheer I have overcome the world.'

Paul says, ' through much tribulation you will enter under the Kingly Rule of God' (Acts 14.22).

But the Bible knows nothing of a final period called 'the great tribulation.' The great tribulation in Matt 24 is the tribulation on the Jews from 70 AD onwards as the Jews were scattered among the nations to fulfil Deut 28.

the great tribulation is Rev 7 refers back to Rev 2.20-22 and commenced in 1st century AD and has continued since. There is no other mention of great tribulation. The time of Jacob's trouble is the tribulation mentioned in Matt 24.

But those caught up in prophetic schemes will give you all kinds of weird ideas

just-me · Jul 12, 2015

jh611 said:

Put these three scriptures together in context and pay very close attention to Matthew 24:29. With these, it isn't confusing in the least. The Bible mentions that Jesus returns only once, not twice, and sets His kingdom up on earth.

Matthew 24:29-31, 1 Corinthians 15:51-53, and 1 Thessalonians 4:14-18

seed_time_harvest · Jul 12, 2015

IMO the thing that causes the dispute about pre rapture and post rapture is that many think that there is only a first coming of JESUS and second coming of JESUS.

So if there is only two times JESUS comes to earth then how can there be JESUS coming three times ....talking about if you include him coming for the saints.(pre-rapture)

So they are saying the rapture would have to be part of the second coming.

Some say that in the pre-rapture JESUS is going to come for us but not touch the ground just call all those that are his and go back to heaven.

It says when he comes every eye shall see him and I don't think that happens at pre-rapture

And it also says that GOD did not appoint us to wrath that's why some believe in pre-rapture.

Some believe if GOD is only coming back once more then we will have to go through the wrath also because we will still be here at the second coming.

valiant · Jul 12, 2015

just-me said:

There is no hint in any of those Scriptures of Jesus founding a kingdom on earth. Nor is there in Rev 2-4-5. It is all read in by those who believe in the mythical millennium ON EARTH.

Blain · Jul 12, 2015

Honestly I don't know for sure nor do I think any of us know 100% I do know that God has always protected his own and has always warned them ahead of time of sudden destruction or disaster on the other hand we may face tribulation or at least some tribulation before we go home. Honestly we all read the scriptures and your right many seem to indicate it could go both ways, it appears to me that depending on what we believe or at least want to believe that si what we will see.

I honestly could not say for sure about any of it but I will say this- something is coming I have felt it for a while now, I don't know if it is sudden disaster or the rapture or the tribulation but I know that something is heading our way and it's coming fast. I am not giving a prophecy nor am I setting any dates or setting any events it is just something I have felt inside my spirit. I couldn't say if it is within two or three months or two or three years but I can say that regardless of when it is we have to have our hearts ready when it does or else we will not be able to stand. I also have felt inside that many of us think and believe that we will be ready whenever it's time to go home but most of us will not.

3Scoreand10 · Jul 12, 2015

Open your eyes and see!
Tell those Christians in the Middle East they will not suffer tribulation because God loves them.
Why are some people so arrogant to believe they are worthy to escape tribulation when their brothers, now and in the past, have and are suffered so much?

LT · Jul 12, 2015

My assumption is leaning "post-trib", but I don't think it matters either way. We have a job to do, and He will complete it in us in the End (or perhaps at or before or through or by the End).

Great theologians have spent their entire lives searching these things, and have put forth many opposing interpretations; each holding to their own with conviction, as if fact.
Who am I to disagree with any of them? Am I so wise as to know more than Ryrie or RC Sproul or Schofield or Piper?

Let the lofty minds disagree about these things,
and let us agree in Christ, and work for Christ and His Kingdom.

LT · Jul 12, 2015

If you want to know why I lean "post-trib", it is because He has promised to protect us THROUGH all sufferings, trials, persecutions, and perils.
Being "kept from" these things was only promised to one group, and they (depending on interpretation) either passed away in a generation long past, or will pass away prior to the "hour of testing/trial/temptation". I think it will be closer to the story of Methuselah, dying in the year of the Flood, and thus kept from it.
I can see where some assume this to be "rapture", but I think that is a major overreach of what is revealed in Scripture.

LT · Jul 12, 2015

Whether by death or by rapture, I care not. One day, I will see my Lord face to face. Until that day, I will prepare my heart, work for His Kingdom, and wait in eager expectation of His Coming and His working: in, around, and through my life. Daily renewal.

Brother_J_BELGIUM · Jul 12, 2015

jh611 said:

God's people (the Church) are not destined for this wrath. Noah and Lot escaped from the wrath of God. Noah preached some 120 years so the people would repent but they refused. The NT says that in the last days it will be like in the days of Noah and of Lot. This time the judgment will not come through water but through fire and this time it's not an ark that will save you but Christ.

We will be changed in the twinkle of an eye to meet Him in the sky. I believe the 70th week of Daniel (final seven years) indicate that the Church won't be here anymore because the Lord says in Daniel chapter 9 that

1. seventy weeks are determined upon thy people...to bring everlasting righteousness (Millennium)...
2. from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks
3a. he (the little horn, Antichrist) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate
3b. and out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

After 69 weeks, which are 483 years, Messiah was cut off (killed) in 30 AD.
From this moment, the Lord started focusing more on the Church and Israel as a nation was abolished and Jews were scattered into every nation of the earth (70 AD - 1948 AD).
When the seventieth week starts by the little horn who will confirm the covenant for one week with many, the final seventieth week (final seven years) start and the Lord starts working with His people Israel (the two witnesses come on the scene in the first half of the seven years, read Revelation 11) once again.

The Church fits in between the 69th and the 70th week of Daniel, because we don't have anything to do with it: "seventy weeks are determined upon thy people".
This clock has stopped at the moment Christ entered Jerusalem on a donkey and obviously the seventieth week hasn't started yet because after it, the Millennium starts.

I hope this will give you some insight.

InSpiritInTruth · Jul 12, 2015

There are 2 tribulation periods, 1st to the Jew which began when Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 ad and the Jews were scattered to the nations (time of Jacobs trouble and days of vengeance) this time runs the whole length of the Gentile fullness. And then when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in (6th seal) then begins the Wrath of God upon the whole world (tribulation to the Gentiles)

Romans 2:9
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

But no one is going to get caught up till the last Trump...

1 Thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1 Corinthians 15:52
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

peacefulbeliever · Jul 12, 2015

3Scoreand10 said:

Yes, we have many brothers and sisters suffering tribulation, even to the point of death but that tribulation is coming from men, and we will suffer tribulation at the hands of men BUT the tribulation "such as the world has never known" will be tribulation from God against mankind. And IMO is part of the wrath of God . . . .

popeye · Jul 12, 2015

seed_time_harvest said:

IMO the thing that causes the dispute about pre rapture and post rapture is that many think that there is only a first coming of JESUS and second coming of JESUS.

So if there is only two times JESUS comes to earth then how can there be JESUS coming three times ....talking about if you include him coming for the saints.(pre-rapture)

So they are saying the rapture would have to be part of the second coming.

Some say that in the pre-rapture JESUS is going to come for us but not touch the ground just call all those that are his and go back to heaven.

It says when he comes every eye shall see him and I don't think that happens at pre-rapture

And it also says that GOD did not appoint us to wrath that's why some believe in pre-rapture.

Some believe if GOD is only coming back once more then we will have to go through the wrath also because we will still be here at the second coming.

almost everything you said about pretrib position is untrue.

popeye · Jul 12, 2015

3Scoreand10 said:

all conjecture.

There are no postrib rapture verses

Elin · Jul 12, 2015

jh611 said:

Interpreting the "great tribulation" as a unique time in the future is uncertain private interpretation of unfulfilled prophetic riddles, which others in the body of Christ interpret entirely differently, and not something unique apart from the tribulations which the NT tells us we will have in life on earth.

The NT presents the rapture as occurring at the end of time, shown here.

popeye · Jul 12, 2015

peacefulbeliever said:

1) the "what about the suffering saints" line is just plain silly. Some have suffered, some never suffer.HISTORY PROVES THIS......GET OVER IT ALREADY

2) postrib RAPTURE has always been a censored bible view. They are required ,for some bizarre reason,to chop out verses.

3) Factor in the chopped out verses and there is NO DEBATE..

popeye · Jul 12, 2015

jh611 said:

I am confused by this topic. I have read multiple biblical scriptures that indicate either might occur. Can someone please shed their thoughts on this and explain what makes them feel this way? My feeling could go either way...
on one hand, God is love... and would a God of love allow his followers and true believers to suffer a tribulation?
On the other hand we are already suffering and I feel god allows us pains to "bring us down a notch.." as Christians in America I feel I am somewhat a spoiled brat. Well, I dont know if that is the right term or not, but in this country Christianity is not widely encouraged and it is brushed off frequently. Because of this it is hard to keep a mindset on living a Christlike life and not giving in the all the sinful temptations currently out there. Make sense. My point is, I understand why difficult times are necessary, it brings me closer to My Father.
Please help me clear this confusion.

GATHER UP THE PRETRIB RAPTURE VERSES.

Gather up the postrib rapture verses. (Psssssst,there are none,not a single one)

Block out the postrib rapture conjecture.

You will see,postrib rapture has zero verses,and is an impossibility.

Pre-tribulation raptiure or post-tribulation rapture?

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