Are we to resist ungodly government?

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phil112

Guest
#1
There has been much said on this subject, here and elsewhere. Some think not, some think so.
When in doubt, turn to the word of God for instruction.
Such instruction is found in Ephesians chapter 6.

Let's look at a couple of verses and hopefully that will pique ones interest enough to study.
The word stand used here is a military connotation that denotes an attitude of offense or defence. It doesn't mean to just sit there and don't move. The use of it here suggests be aggressive against an enemy. Resist - put some effort into it.

Ephesians 6:11,12 "Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

Just who are those enemies that it speaks of?
Principalities means rulers, powers means authorities, rulers refers to world rulers.
Our battle is spiritual in that our salvation is at stake. Our loyalty and obedience to our governing leaders is constrained only by their willingness to allow us to serve our God. Any person, be they fleshly (man) or spiritual (satan), that tries to force us to be disobedient to God becomes our enemy and requires our resistance.
 
Jan 25, 2015
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#2
Phil, if we look at the life of Joseph we see that he was the ruler of Egypt. He was second in command next to Pharaoh. I very much doubt if Joseph did anything to betray YHWH Elohim. He was the best example of how God can use His children in an ungodly government.
 
Dec 1, 2014
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#3
Phil, if we look at the life of Joseph we see that he was the ruler of Egypt. He was second in command next to Pharaoh. I very much doubt if Joseph did anything to betray YHWH Elohim. He was the best example of how God can use His children in an ungodly government.
And what of those who will not be appointed into position but rather sent to the gallows, or worse?

Resisting tyranny is an obligation to all things godly.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#4
Romans 13 talks about how we are to obey the Law of the land. God's ministers of justice (which would be the police, the military) will take vengeance on those who do evil so as to keep the peace within that country (like murder, rape, theft, etc.). However, that said, if our country makes a law that goes against the Commandment of God, we are to obey God rather than men (of course). For if there was a Law that prevented us from preaching the gospel, then one would of course disobey that law (in favor of following God and His Word rather than the world). For Daniel's friends had refused to bow down to a statue of the king of Babylon.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#5
For it is possible that the Bible could be considered a hate speech book in time; For it will either be re-written so as to be acceptable to those living in a sinful lifestyle, or it will be completely banned altogether to own and or to read to others publically. When that time comes, I pray for strength from the Lord upon all true believers to stand up for God despite the hardshhips.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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#6
In this country of the U. S. we are not supposed to have a dictatorship, but as of late it seems that is the way with our administration. The 1st amendment to our constitution gives us the right to protest our leadership in government. But, on the other hand, if we were under a dictatorship for real, there is nothing we could do concerning resistance. Yes, there is a difference, and soon (I truly believe) we will be under a dictatorship, especially those of us who protest corruption as we see it identified in scripture. Of course many religious teachers have made it a habit to make obsolete God's instructions that define corruption so the populous cannot truly identify it properly according to scripture.

We should have been protesting 70 or 80 years ago, but we were taught in our churches that we are not of this world and therefore the unconstitutional statement of "separation of church and state" is something that the church in general deems as being correct due to ignorance. Half truth makes a total falsehood. That's our adversary's tactics in every case.

In either case, the human race gets what they deserve by the righteous judgments of God which are inescapable. It's just a matter of time.

"I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear." Isaiah 45:23

"For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God." Romans 14:11
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
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#7
There has been much said on this subject, here and elsewhere. Some think not, some think so.
When in doubt, turn to the word of God for instruction.
Such instruction is found in Ephesians chapter 6.

Let's look at a couple of verses and hopefully that will pique ones interest enough to study.
The word stand used here is a military connotation that denotes an attitude of offense or defence. It doesn't mean to just sit there and don't move. The use of it here suggests be aggressive against an enemy. Resist - put some effort into it.

Ephesians 6:11,12 "Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

Just who are those enemies that it speaks of?
Principalities means rulers, powers means authorities, rulers refers to world rulers.
Our battle is spiritual in that our salvation is at stake. Our loyalty and obedience to our governing leaders is constrained only by their willingness to allow us to serve our God. Any person, be they fleshly (man) or spiritual (satan), that tries to force us to be disobedient to God becomes our enemy and requires our resistance.
The rulers and principalities and powers mentioned were heavenly ruler ruling over evil spirits.

Rm 13 makes clear that w are to be loyal to earthly rulers even if we disagree with them as long as they do not try to prevent us faithfully serving our LORD.
 
Jan 25, 2015
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#8
And what of those who will not be appointed into position but rather sent to the gallows, or worse?

Resisting tyranny is an obligation to all things godly.
Yes not all of us will be appointed to power but remember Joseph was also in jail for a long time but he still trusted God for his salvation and for the dreams He had for him...

We should have no problem with resistance in a Godly fashion.
 

Nick01

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2013
1,272
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#9
Refusing to bow down to false gods and resistance are, I feel, two different things. Where did Daniel and co go after they refused to bow down to an idol? They certainly didn't resist the (unjust) consequences of their refusal to obey. I'm not even sure they would have, if they had the means and power.

Same thing in the NT. How many Christian uprisings do you see in the first centuries under a polytheistic, idolatrous Roman government that intermittently set out to kill Christians?

I see a lot of qualified resistance in the Scriptures - which is to say, people resist ungodly commands and are loyalty ultimately to the Lord, but they do not fight back or actively seek to thwart the consequences of their civil disobedience. Instead, Daniel etc are clearly prepared for what will happen, rather than expecting they can thwart it.
 
Sep 6, 2014
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#10
Ephesians 6:11-12
11Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. 12For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.

James 4:7

7Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

1 Peter 5:6-9
6Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time: 7Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you. 8Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: 9Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

[HR][/HR]

Psalm 12:1-8

1{To the chief Musician upon Sheminith, A Psalm of David.} Help, LORD; for the godly man ceaseth; for the faithful fail from among the children of men.
2They speak vanity every one with his neighbour: with flattering lips and with a double heart do they speak.
3The LORD shall cut off all flattering lips, and the tongue that speaketh proud things:
4Who have said, With our tongue will we prevail; our lips are our own: who is lord over us?
5For the oppression of the poor, for the sighing of the needy, now will I arise, saith the LORD; I will set him in safety from him that puffeth at him.
6The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
8The wicked walk on every side, when the vilest men are exalted.
 
Jan 7, 2015
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#11
Here is a good example of civil disobedience when the disciples were commanded not to speak any more in the name of Jesus, but what was their reply, and what did they do?

Acts 4:17-19 "But that it spread no further among the people, let us straitly threaten them, that they speak henceforth to no man in this name.[SUP]18 [/SUP]And they called them, and commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus.

[SUP]19 [/SUP]But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye."

Acts 5:40-42
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And to him they agreed: and when they had called the apostles, and beaten them, they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.

[SUP]42 [/SUP]And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ."

The weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but spiritual. Just as the sword of the Spirit is the very words of God.

Psalm 149:5-9
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Let the saints be joyful in glory: let them sing aloud upon their beds.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a two-edged sword in their hand;
[SUP]7 [/SUP]To execute vengeance upon the heathen, and punishments upon the people;
[SUP]8 [/SUP]To bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron;

[SUP]9 [/SUP]To execute upon them the judgment written: this honour have all his saints. Praise ye the Lord.


Isaiah 49:2
And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me;

Revelation 2:16
Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Revelation 19:15
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Revelation 19:21
And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#12
Most rightly advocate that there comes a point when the Christian is to resist, the problem is each having a conscience, that point comes at different places. When does your point kick in?
 
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phil112

Guest
#13
I guess this is an appropriate thread for this. An old one for Dcon.:)

ztrap.jpg
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
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#15
I still have my Bible and I still go to church every Sunday. When they take that away from me then I might consider fighting.
 
Jan 25, 2015
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#16
Phil this quote bring tears to my eyes when I think how my people (Boers) fought for our country and we gave it away on a silver platter (a discussion for a different day).

“Give me 20 divisions American soldiers and I will beach Europe.
Give me 15 consisting of Englishmen, and I will advance to the borders of Berlin.
Give me two divisions of those marvelous fighting Boers and I will remove Germany from the face of the earth.”
Field Marshall Bernard L. Montgomery (Commander Allied forces WWII)
 
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phil112

Guest
#17
The rulers and principalities and powers mentioned were heavenly ruler ruling over evil spirits................................
I would encourage you to do some serious study on that passage. I saw as you do at one time, but after study I now understand it as it is meant.

Refusing to bow down to false gods and resistance are, I feel, two different things. .....................
There is a difference between physical and spiritual resistance. Not bowing down is a spiritual resistance.
If a leader says "worship this false idol" and you refuse. That is resistance.
I never said your reaction is to attempt to beat the tar out of the man that tells you that.

Physical resistance is not what we are instructed to do here. But you never cow down nor zip your lip when your leaders are taking you and your country to hell. Christ and His followers have long been frequently imprisoned, not for for fighting, but for resisting evil.
 
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cmarieh

Guest
#18
We must obey the laws of the land, but that doesn't mean we have to agree with them. After all we live in this world, but we must remember we are not of this world.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,704
3,649
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#19
We must obey the laws of the land, but that doesn't mean we have to agree with them. After all we live in this world, but we must remember we are not of this world.
If the law was to hand over Jews as in Nazi Germany, would you obey while not agreeing?