Is the Devil bound right now...?
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From the verse in rev;
deó: to tie, bind
Original Word: δέωdeó: to tie, bind
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: deó
Phonetic Spelling: (deh'-o)
Short Definition: I bind
Definition: I bind, tie, fasten; I impel, compel; I declare to be prohibited and unlawful.
The one in acts;
δεσμεύωdesmeúō, des-myoo'-o; from a (presumed) derivative of G1196; to be a binder (captor), i.e. to enchain (a prisoner), to tie on (a load):—bind.
ANYONE CAN LOOK IT UP. YOU ARE NOTHING SPECIAL
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Hi VCO,
The problem with Bowman as being an amil is that as with the example above, he presents the meaning of the word "bound" while ignoring the rest of the context, which describes how Satan is bound. The context says that the angel "threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him." This is a far cry from the description of their interpretation. So, we have the other words of the context, threw, into, Abyss, locked, sealed, over him. All of these support the subject of Satan's binding, which Bowman, Cassian and amil's ignore. These words in no way describe the passive binding that they peddling.
"He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him."
The above fragment from verse 3 is enough for the logical person to easily understand that for one, the angel is throwing Satan into the Abyss. Now, we know from other scriptures, that the Abyss is a real place. For example, it is the same place that those demons collectively called Legion begged Jesus not to send them into described in Luke 8:31. The amil gets rid of the Abyss as a literal place because it is detrimental to his interpretation. Once Satan has been thrown into the Abyss, the angel locks it back up with the key to the Abyss first introduced at the fifth trumpet and again here in verse 1 and he seals it over him. The amil ignores these other words in the context and instead has Satan passively bound and wandering around free with the definition of bound meaning that he has been stripped of his power, again ignoring the rest of the descriptive words in the context, thrown, into, Abyss, locked, sealed, over, him.
That being said, you're never going to get them to admit to this and that because they have been taught this pre-packaged interpretation and have adopted this teaching and will fight tooth and nail because they are more concerned about protecting their interpretation, than admitting to the truth of what the scripture is describing. As you already know, one of their common practices is to discredit the person who is presenting the truth. They are false teachers, plain and simple.
The problem with Bowman as being an amil is that as with the example above, he presents the meaning of the word "bound" while ignoring the rest of the context, which describes how Satan is bound. The context says that the angel "threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him." This is a far cry from the description of their interpretation. So, we have the other words of the context, threw, into, Abyss, locked, sealed, over him. All of these support the subject of Satan's binding, which Bowman, Cassian and amil's ignore. These words in no way describe the passive binding that they peddling.
"He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him."
The above fragment from verse 3 is enough for the logical person to easily understand that for one, the angel is throwing Satan into the Abyss. Now, we know from other scriptures, that the Abyss is a real place. For example, it is the same place that those demons collectively called Legion begged Jesus not to send them into described in Luke 8:31. The amil gets rid of the Abyss as a literal place because it is detrimental to his interpretation. Once Satan has been thrown into the Abyss, the angel locks it back up with the key to the Abyss first introduced at the fifth trumpet and again here in verse 1 and he seals it over him. The amil ignores these other words in the context and instead has Satan passively bound and wandering around free with the definition of bound meaning that he has been stripped of his power, again ignoring the rest of the descriptive words in the context, thrown, into, Abyss, locked, sealed, over, him.
That being said, you're never going to get them to admit to this and that because they have been taught this pre-packaged interpretation and have adopted this teaching and will fight tooth and nail because they are more concerned about protecting their interpretation, than admitting to the truth of what the scripture is describing. As you already know, one of their common practices is to discredit the person who is presenting the truth. They are false teachers, plain and simple.
And how would this pertain to the topic?
If there is any question it should be of your position. You are the one that has accepted a false teaching. You have not given a shred of evidence that premillennialism has ever been the teaching of scripture.
No Church from Pentecost to the time of the Reformation has ever held a premillennial view - Orthodox, Oriential Orthodox and the Roman Catholic Church. It is an express heresy of historical Christianity. None of the Reformers held this view, Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, Knox and Wesley. No Protestant denonimation of any stripe held this view until the early 19th century. It was begun in England with Darby with Miller and Scofield in America. The only group that holds this view today, as far as I can tell, are the Seventh-Day Adventists, who developed from the Millerites and the Evangelicals who tie themselves to Dallas Theological Seminary where Lindsey, Walvoord and Ryrie hale and the followers of Hagee and Impe.
That hardly has the historical understanding of scripture from the beginning without change and being preserved by the Holy Spirit. What it does exemplify is a man made theory imposed upon scripture because of misunderstanding/interpretation.
Anyone can hold this view, but it cannot be claimed as part of historical Christianity. It is purely a modern man made/developed theory imposed on scripture.
If there is any question it should be of your position. You are the one that has accepted a false teaching. You have not given a shred of evidence that premillennialism has ever been the teaching of scripture.
No Church from Pentecost to the time of the Reformation has ever held a premillennial view - Orthodox, Oriential Orthodox and the Roman Catholic Church. It is an express heresy of historical Christianity. None of the Reformers held this view, Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, Knox and Wesley. No Protestant denonimation of any stripe held this view until the early 19th century. It was begun in England with Darby with Miller and Scofield in America. The only group that holds this view today, as far as I can tell, are the Seventh-Day Adventists, who developed from the Millerites and the Evangelicals who tie themselves to Dallas Theological Seminary where Lindsey, Walvoord and Ryrie hale and the followers of Hagee and Impe.
That hardly has the historical understanding of scripture from the beginning without change and being preserved by the Holy Spirit. What it does exemplify is a man made theory imposed upon scripture because of misunderstanding/interpretation.
Anyone can hold this view, but it cannot be claimed as part of historical Christianity. It is purely a modern man made/developed theory imposed on scripture.
Prove us incorrect. No one has even attempted to prove that it could be the meaning of scripture from the beginning. You even have the arrogance to claim it for yourself rather than the developers/founders Miller, Darby and Scofield with all the modern versions still in flux.
Until you can do that, it remains a false teaching.
Until you can do that, it remains a false teaching.
I just did prove it and you didn't understand it. As I said, a person cannot use logic when it comes to you, Boman and Amillennialism in general. After I provide the proof, you ignore it and then ask us for proof, which is what you are doing now. You completely ignored all of the words in the context that I provided. Why would I waste my time by re-providing the same proof. Go back and read it again and tell me what it means for Satan to be thrown into the Abyss and then to have it locked and sealed over him. Pay attention to the words Abyss, locked, sealed and over him. By the way, as I have stated before, I did not come to my interpretation from Miller, Darby, Scofield or anyone else. In fact, I have never read anything by those men. This is just another one of your defenses that you use when faced with the truth. All of the information that I am providing comes directly from the word of God, which is why I provide the scripture to support what I am proclaiming.
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Bowman, I did show you, almost every time I post anything, I back it up with scripture.
There you go again with your PRIDE in your education, and ability to use exegesis.
I wish you were able to digest spiritual pablum, but it is still foolishness to you.
Romans 1:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Professing to be wise, they became fools,
John 3:3-7 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Nicodemus *said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?"
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] "Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'
It is not about exegesis at ALL. That is NOT where spiritual understanding comes from.
Spiritual Understanding comes from the HOLY SPIRIT HIMSELF, after you have willingly
surrendered complete control to Jesus Christ as LORD, meaning MASTER; solely out of
LOVE FOR HIM. That is the moment the Holy Spirit takes up residence in your heart, and
pours the Love of GOD into your heart (Rom. 5:5). Your Pride in your education and exegesis
IS YOUR STUMBLING BLOCK to becoming Born Again.
1 Corinthians 2:13-14 (NIV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Bowman, I did show you, almost every time I post anything, I back it up with scripture.
There you go again with your PRIDE in your education, and ability to use exegesis.
I wish you were able to digest spiritual pablum, but it is still foolishness to you.
Romans 1:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Professing to be wise, they became fools,
John 3:3-7 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Nicodemus *said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?"
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] "Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'
It is not about exegesis at ALL. That is NOT where spiritual understanding comes from.
Spiritual Understanding comes from the HOLY SPIRIT HIMSELF, after you have willingly
surrendered complete control to Jesus Christ as LORD, meaning MASTER; solely out of
LOVE FOR HIM. That is the moment the Holy Spirit takes up residence in your heart, and
pours the Love of GOD into your heart (Rom. 5:5). Your Pride in your education and exegesis
IS YOUR STUMBLING BLOCK to becoming Born Again.
1 Corinthians 2:13-14 (NIV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
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Some very good points, thank you. I also see a CRITICAL lack of understanding of what BORN AGAIN is, and how that REAL Experience is absolutely necessary prior to gaining spiritual understanding of the Scriptures. See my last post above.
It happened to me after my third attempt at suicide while going thru a nasty divorce after being married only six months, the last week of December, 1977. It was a willing TOTAL SURRENDER of control of my life to Jesus Christ forever as my MASTER. I was a Church goer all of my life, but that was the night I became a real born again CHRISTIAN. The difference in my ability to understand the Scriptures was NIGHT and DAY; and that understanding has been growing, and growing, ever since. It is so exciting to see that spiritual growth happening within me, giving me more, and more understanding every time I dig into the scriptures. It FILLS ME WITH JOY, just thinking about it, because it has NOTHING to do with what goes on between my ears. It is Christ in me, and the Holy Spirit. What a blessing.
[video=youtube;1tA7E7pbUws]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tA7E7pbUws[/video]
Me again VCO,
Here is a silly comparison as to how Bowman, Cassian and amils interpret scripture:
See Dick and Jane. Here is their dog Spot. See Spot run. Run Spot run!
Scripture: The man's name is Dick and the woman's name is Jane. They have a dog named Spot who is running.
Amils: Dick and Jane are not their real names and are in fact not even real people. Spot is not a dog, but some other animal and its name is not even mentioned.
They must have been a real pain in kindergarten.
Here is a silly comparison as to how Bowman, Cassian and amils interpret scripture:
See Dick and Jane. Here is their dog Spot. See Spot run. Run Spot run!
Scripture: The man's name is Dick and the woman's name is Jane. They have a dog named Spot who is running.
Amils: Dick and Jane are not their real names and are in fact not even real people. Spot is not a dog, but some other animal and its name is not even mentioned.
They must have been a real pain in kindergarten.
Well thank God that he called you before you succeeded with your suicide. You truly have gone from death to life. Yes, I know what you mean regarding the word of God. Just as you do and every true believer, God's word is living and active within us, so that we are meditating on him and his word day and night. This is what Jesus meant when he said, unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you have no life in you. We completely consume Christ into our lives.
:smoke: Why don't we try to look from the ancient manuscript that was
written in codex sinaiticus :happy:
:scarf: every believers has their own translations to look for
in terms of what sources is available to them
:hmm: but there is one thing we cannot deny
that we cannot reversed the "TIME" where it was written :think:
:hrmm: That's the difference of a tangible ( and some intangible also ) material things from
Once in full blue (not red and not this time) moon situation :yawn:
AS OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST SAYS
Matthew: 13. 13. Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15. For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
GODBLESS US ALL
:ty:
written in codex sinaiticus :happy:
:scarf: every believers has their own translations to look for
in terms of what sources is available to them
:hmm: but there is one thing we cannot deny
that we cannot reversed the "TIME" where it was written :think:
:hrmm: That's the difference of a tangible ( and some intangible also ) material things from
Once in full blue (not red and not this time) moon situation :yawn:
AS OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST SAYS
Matthew: 13. 13. Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15. For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
GODBLESS US ALL
:ty:
AMEN, and their definition for Born Again.
I shared the definition of Born Again, earlier.
AND here is a doctrinal statement that covers all the most important points of my beliefs, which I certainly agree with:
https://ihcc.org/About/WhatWeBelieve
I shared the definition of Born Again, earlier.
AND here is a doctrinal statement that covers all the most important points of my beliefs, which I certainly agree with:
https://ihcc.org/About/WhatWeBelieve
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Just don't mind our reasoning but be certain unto
the words of lord god the almighty father who is good and doesn't lie and to
Our lord god the only begotten son Jesus Christ who is our saviour
when the time comes . ...
:scarf: AS THEY SAY " LET THE WORD OF GOD BE OUR WITNESS " :happy:
John: 7. 15. And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?
16. Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
17. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
18. He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.
:smoke: why can't we answered the "OP" WITH JUST A SIMPLE
QUESTION
What comes first, the great tribulation or the bounding of devil?
And if we could just add this
question :happy:
:hmm: is it the devil or Satan is bound right now? :think:
JUST FOR CLARIFICATION 8)
:ty:
the words of lord god the almighty father who is good and doesn't lie and to
Our lord god the only begotten son Jesus Christ who is our saviour
when the time comes . ...
:scarf: AS THEY SAY " LET THE WORD OF GOD BE OUR WITNESS " :happy:
John: 7. 15. And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?
16. Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
17. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
18. He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.
:smoke: why can't we answered the "OP" WITH JUST A SIMPLE
QUESTION
What comes first, the great tribulation or the bounding of devil?
And if we could just add this
question :happy:
:hmm: is it the devil or Satan is bound right now? :think:
JUST FOR CLARIFICATION 8):ty:
John tells us: “And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven with the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. And he seized the dragon, the original serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. And he hurled him into the abyss and shut it and sealed it over him, that he might not mislead the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After these things he must be let loose for a little while.”—Revelation 20:1-3.
Who is this angel? He must have tremendous power to be able to dispose of Jehovah’s archenemy. He has “the key of the abyss and a great chain.” Does this not remind us of an earlier vision? Why, yes, the king over the locusts is called “the angel of the abyss”! (Revelation 9:11) So here we again observe Jehovah’s Chief Vindicator, the glorified Jesus Christ, in action. This archangel that cast Satan out of heaven, that judged Babylon the Great, and that disposed of “the kings of the earth and their armies” at Armageddon would surely not step aside to let a lesser angel deliver the masterstroke in abyssing Satan!—Revelation 12:7-9; 18:1, 2; 19:11-21.
Will Satan and his demons be active while in the abyss? Well, remember the scarlet-colored, seven-headed wild beast that “was, but is not, and yet is about to ascend out of the abyss.” (Revelation 17:8) While in the abyss, it ‘was not.’ It was nonfunctioning, immobilized, to all intents and purposes dead. Likewise, speaking of Jesus, the apostle Paul said: “‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.” (Romans 10:7) While in that abyss, Jesus was dead. It is reasonable to conclude, then, that Satan and his demons will be in a state of deathlike inactivity for the thousand years of their abyssing. What good tidings for lovers of righteousness!
Who is this angel? He must have tremendous power to be able to dispose of Jehovah’s archenemy. He has “the key of the abyss and a great chain.” Does this not remind us of an earlier vision? Why, yes, the king over the locusts is called “the angel of the abyss”! (Revelation 9:11) So here we again observe Jehovah’s Chief Vindicator, the glorified Jesus Christ, in action. This archangel that cast Satan out of heaven, that judged Babylon the Great, and that disposed of “the kings of the earth and their armies” at Armageddon would surely not step aside to let a lesser angel deliver the masterstroke in abyssing Satan!—Revelation 12:7-9; 18:1, 2; 19:11-21.
Will Satan and his demons be active while in the abyss? Well, remember the scarlet-colored, seven-headed wild beast that “was, but is not, and yet is about to ascend out of the abyss.” (Revelation 17:8) While in the abyss, it ‘was not.’ It was nonfunctioning, immobilized, to all intents and purposes dead. Likewise, speaking of Jesus, the apostle Paul said: “‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.” (Romans 10:7) While in that abyss, Jesus was dead. It is reasonable to conclude, then, that Satan and his demons will be in a state of deathlike inactivity for the thousand years of their abyssing. What good tidings for lovers of righteousness!
