Somebody asked "Why is the church is in such bad shape?"

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Jul 10, 2015
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Well, the answer to this question must begin with the fact that the Lord Jesus prophesied this to be the case in the coming years after His resurrection, with things continuing to get worse as time went on.

All this is foretold in the 7 parables of Matthew 13.

The first parable starts with Jesus Himself - the Sower Who sowed the seed. And at the end of the parable, notice the order of the reaping, 100-fold, then 60-fold, then 30-fold. The reaping gets less.

It's also VERY important to pay attention to the definition of the "birds" in this parable. Jesus explains it to His disciples (a few verses later) and says the birds represent the "evil one", or the devil and his agents.

Got that? It's very important.

Okay.. moving on.




Next, we have the parable of the tares and the wheat. So the devil, again, mixes in his agents among the wheat. Both are allowed to go on until the end of the age (harvest time!) and guess what... the reapers (angels) are told to gather out of the field (the world) the tares, FIRST. Not the wheat first (rapture) as is commonly taught. No, the tares are gathered out FIRST.

When Jesus returns, the first order of business for the angels that are with Him are to come down to the earth and gather out all the tares, FIRST. Yes, the people will look up and mourn. THEN the righteous are gathered (caught up). [I'll show corroboration to this fact at the end of this post. You will be quite surprised!]

Moving on....

3rd (Mustard seed) parable: Starts off with a man (Jesus) sowing a mustard seed (the divine concept of God for His bride) in the field (world), and when it is full grown is a bush, or shrubbery, or garden plant.

[Ask any horticulturalist what mustard is and they will tell you it is a bush. NEVER a tree!]

But Jesus says that this mustard seed bush, becomes a tree. A tree??? How does mustard, which is a shrubbery, become a tree?

ANSWER: a technology that they knew about back then, which Paul used that term in Romans 11, called "Grafting".
So the divine concept for the mustard seed, somehow becomes a tree. HOW? Because MEN tamper with the divine concept and turn the bush into something that is NOT God's mind. They make it into a tree [organized, institutional, world-like church]. Men take God's word, and apply the earth-touch, and turn it into something that was not God's intention. Not the natural, divine bush. Something else.

Then what? The birds (remember what we already were told by Jesus that birds represent?) make their nests in the tree's branches.

Yes folks, you are participating in something the devil and man has created, and the devil and his agents are nesting in the branches of your organized, institutional, "church".





Moving on ....

Parable #4 - Matt 13:33 He spoke another parable to them, "The kingdom of heaven is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal (or flour) until it was all leavened."

Here, Jesus is telling the 12 disciples what will happen further out, as time goes on, to His gospel message.

We all know (or should know!) that leaven represent evil in the bible. It always has, and does. In the Old Testament the Jews would sweep their houses of any leaven during any holy event. They were also commanded to bring UNLEAVENED bread to the altar, and that bread was to be covered in oil (representing the Holy Spirit).

So Jesus says that a woman took and hid into the meal, leaven, until it was all leavened.

First off, the Jews must have known that something was wrong, for women were never allowed to be priests! Next, they knew that leaven was not allowed in the bread sacrifice. And also very important is that the oil was left out of the commanded recipe!

But more importantly, Jesus is the Bread of Life. He is the manna come down from heaven. He is the meal of this parable, or more explicitly, the meal is His gospel message and WAY. It becomes all leavened.

Yes, it is now 100% leavened.

And what you really need to understand, is that leaven just does its job. You do not need to do or add anything else to make leaven work. It just leavens all by itself. Add yeast to the dough, and it just happens. It works.

Leaven makes the bread "taste better", and "get bigger!". Puffed up, organized, marketed, Radio and TV, as the world measures success, BIG!

All these "churches" are simply leavened bread.



Read here to see about leaven, for those of you who doubt:

1 Cor 5:6 Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough?
1 Cor 5:7 Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed.
1 Cor 5:8 Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.






Moving on....

Parable #5:

Matt 13:44 "The kingdom of heaven is like a treasure hidden in the field, which a man found and hid again; and from joy over it he goes and sells all that he has and buys that field."



The treasure in the field is the true, spiritual, Church, that Jesus desires. A SPIRITUAL church in which HE is Lord and His members obey His Spirit.

And upon finding it (He sees it, just like He saw the glory that lay beyond the Cross), He hides it in the field (world) and from joy over it sells ALL that He has (He emptied Himself and gave Himself a ransom for His bride, the Church) and purchases that field.


The point about this parable, again, to continue the main theme, is that His true church is HIDDEN. You cannot find it in the yellow pages or on the internet. It is hidden.




Parable #6 - Similar, with a bit more interesting details about how the church has to go through a very painful process.

Matt 13:45 "Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant seeking fine pearls,
Matt 13:46 and upon finding one pearl of great value, he went and sold all that he had and bought it.






You may know that to become a pearl, an oyster gets a grain of sand under the shell of a clam, and it's a very long, and very painful process, whereby the clam experiences an irritating microscopic object as it has become trapped within its mantle folds. A very beautiful, but painful, illustration of the true Christians' life.


Again, the Merchant gives ALL HE HAS for that pearl (church) and buys it with His blood.






Parable #7 - Jesus tells of a great dragnet to gather fish of every kind, and when the net is drawn up, he commands the angels to come forth and take the wicked from among the righteous, and will throw them into the furnace of fire, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

This last parable wraps up the age, with His 2nd Coming and the angels gathering out of the world, FIRST, the tares, wicked, sinners, false, as was the case in the parable of the tares and the wheat.

This is what He told His disciples, and then He says,


Matt 13:51 "Have you understood all these things?" They said to Him, "Yes."
Matt 13:52 And Jesus said to them, "Therefore every scribe who has become a disciple of the kingdom of heaven is like a head of a household, who brings out of his treasure things new and old."




- - - - - - - - - - -


So the answer to the question as to why the "church" is so bad, is simple. The devil has infiltrated it, with men willing to cooperate with the devil and change God's divine concept into something completely foreign and evil.

Yes, it is all leavened bread.



Next post will corroborate the tares gathered out FIRST, before the saints at His 2nd Coming. Stay tuned and be surprised!
 
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Jul 10, 2015
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For those who have ears to hear and eyes to see, this will be a special blessing to you.



Matt 24:36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.
Matt 24:37 "For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.
Matt 24:38 "For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,
Matt 24:39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
Matt 24:40 "Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left.
Matt 24:41 "Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left.




All these verses come after Jesus explaining all the horrible things that will transpire against His Body, the saints, just prior to His 2nd Coming. Read verses 1 thru 35 if need be.

Starting in v. 36 Jesus tells us His Coming will be just like in the days of Noah. Sin going on everywhere, and people conducting business as usual.


This is a critical point in His telling, so pay close attention:

Matt 24:39 and they did not understand until the flood came and swept them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.


To get the importance of what I am about to share with you, I need you to answer a question about v.39 before proceeding to verses 40-42.

Jesus told us that "THEY" were eating, drinking, marrying, and giving marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark.

Matt 24:39 and they did not understand until the flood came and swept them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

QUESTION: Who did not understand until the flood came and swept them all away?


You MUST answer this question before going on.

Who did not understand, or know?


It should be pretty obvious.

ANSWER: The sinners.

Okay?

Yes, the sinners were eating, drinking, marrying, and giving in marriage, and those sinners did not know, or understand, until the flood came and swept them (sinners) all away.

Got that?


So it was the sinners who got taken away. The sinners were swept away with the flood and all perished.


Moving on....


Matt 24:40 "Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left.
Matt 24:41 "Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left.


In context now, Jesus proceeds and tells us that two men will be in the field, and one will be taken (away) and one left.

Keep the context. No reason to change the context of the Lord's teaching.

Who is taken away?

ANSWER: The sinner


Two women will be grinding at the mill; one is taken and one will be left.


Who is taken?

The sinner.



There's no reason to change the context of the Lord's teaching. Just still with what HE is saying.

In the first part of this, HE says the sinners did not know until it was too late and they, the sinners, were taken.

And so will it be when He comes. The sinner will be taken.




WOW! Completely OPPOSITE the leavened bread (church's) teaching!


Okay... I'll give you one more, to corroborate what I just showed you. Same thing, but with a little bit more information, to PROVE to you what your deaf ears and blind eyes just simply do not want to believe.


Next post.
 
Jul 10, 2015
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#3
I'll make this one much shorter, but it's Luke's gospel giving us the same teaching about the Lord's 2nd Coming.

Luke adds a bit more, important, information on the subject about the Two in the field, and two in the bed.

Pay attention!

Luke 17:34 I tell you, in that night there will be two in one bed. One will be taken and the other left.
Luke 17:35 There will be two women grinding together. One will be taken and the other left."
Luke 17:37 And they said to him, "Where, Lord?" He said to them, "Where the corpse is, there the vultures will gather."


Same teaching as Matthew 24, but a little bit extra.

Jesus says two will be in bed and one is taken. Two women will be grinding together. One will be taken and the other left.


Where will they be taken?

And Jesus' answer is:

"Where the corpse is, there the vultures will gather."


Establishing with no uncertainty, that you do NOT want to be taken!

YOU DO NOT WANT TO BE TAKEN!

Got that?

The ones taken go to where the dead body (corpse) is, and the vultures (here are those devilish birds again!) gather.


I truly hope this was eye opening for you.

Sincerely,

 

Joidevivre

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2014
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#4
Well - I am part of the church, and the part that I am in is in good shape I would say.

The reason is because I am in Christ - how much better can I get?
 
Nov 14, 2012
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I'll make this one much shorter, but it's Luke's gospel giving us the same teaching about the Lord's 2nd Coming.

Luke adds a bit more, important, information on the subject about the Two in the field, and two in the bed.

Pay attention!

Luke 17:34 I tell you, in that night there will be two in one bed. One will be taken and the other left.
Luke 17:35 There will be two women grinding together. One will be taken and the other left."
Luke 17:37 And they said to him, "Where, Lord?" He said to them, "Where the corpse is, there the vultures will gather."


Same teaching as Matthew 24, but a little bit extra.

Jesus says two will be in bed and one is taken. Two women will be grinding together. One will be taken and the other left.


Where will they be taken?

And Jesus' answer is:

"Where the corpse is, there the vultures will gather."


Establishing with no uncertainty, that you do NOT want to be taken!

YOU DO NOT WANT TO BE TAKEN!

Got that?

The ones taken go to where the dead body (corpse) is, and the vultures (here are those devilish birds again!) gather.


I truly hope this was eye opening for you.

Sincerely,

So, you just don't want to go to church! You want God your way?
 

Yet

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Where in the word does it say 'go to church'?
 
Jul 10, 2015
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#8
Where in the word does it say 'go to church'?
I hear ya, Yet.

Church is not something you go to, it's who we are, i.e the Body, individually members of one another, with Christ as Head. And I have said what I saw you wrote, yesterday - there are no titles in the Lord's people. Only functions, and we are all lowly sinners, saved by Grace.

If any would be great, then he needs to serve, labor over people. Get under them, to help them stand, and grow. Labor, constantly for them. Not have them serve "you", the "pastor".

Being a minister in Christ is not a profession. It's a passion. "Woe unto me if I do not do the work of the Lord!"
 
Jan 2, 2015
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#9
God will allow (natural) man to follow what they do best ..they will bring about their own destruction ..start Armageddon..he will finish it ..
Ps 91v7 A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
8 Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.

The Church ( true believers Jesus ..signs following..) the people ,in a mess because they are not given to read the FULL Gospel nor taught correctly ..remember church types in Revelations..also Pual had this to deal with as then he directs the Corinthians how a church is to be run...even today..( Jesus Christ the same yesterday ,today, and forever )
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
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#10
Let's see, the church is the body of Christ. The Bible says we need to meet together. Therefore, we need to be a church. And because we are the church, we do not ask why "we" are in bad shape, but rather, get down on our knees and pray for our brothers and sisters in Christ. Sorry you have had a bad experience with a church body. Maybe you need to try again, instead of coming into a Christian forum and railing against Christians and those of us who are pastors. (No, I don't make any money as a pastor, because God has provided for me! But I do not put down those who spend long hard weeks visiting the sick, praying for the congregation and preparing sermons that are deep and feed the soul!)

"not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near." Hebrews 10:25
 
P

prodigal

Guest
#11
it will always amaze me how new people turn up , as if we have all been sitting here waiting for them to teach us the errors of our ways, its not even the content of the post but the high and mighty attitude, i think there's some scriptures about that..

and i quote

'Okay... I'll give you one more, to corroborate what I just showed you. Same thing, but with a little bit more information, to PROVE to you what your deaf ears and blind eyes just simply do not want to believe.'

you may want to study pride and self righteousness cos thats all i can hear
 
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Yet

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#12
Let's see, the church is the body of Christ. The Bible says we need to meet together. Therefore, we need to be a church. And because we are the church, we do not ask why "we" are in bad shape, but rather, get down on our knees and pray for our brothers and sisters in Christ. Sorry you have had a bad experience with a church body. Maybe you need to try again, instead of coming into a Christian forum and railing against Christians and those of us who are pastors. (No, I don't make any money as a pastor, because God has provided for me! But I do not put down those who spend long hard weeks visiting the sick, praying for the congregation and preparing sermons that are deep and feed the soul!)

"not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near." Hebrews 10:25
Where does this pastor work?
 
Jul 10, 2015
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#13
Let's see, the church is the body of Christ. The Bible says we need to meet together. Therefore, we need to be a church. And because we are the church, we do not ask why "we" are in bad shape, but rather, get down on our knees and pray for our brothers and sisters in Christ. Sorry you have had a bad experience with a church body. Maybe you need to try again, instead of coming into a Christian forum and railing against Christians and those of us who are pastors. (No, I don't make any money as a pastor, because God has provided for me! But I do not put down those who spend long hard weeks visiting the sick, praying for the congregation and preparing sermons that are deep and feed the soul!)

"not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near." Hebrews 10:25

This verse in Hebrews 10:25 is the old standby for the religious order to try and justify their not following Jesus the Way He taught and demonstrated.

So allow me to give you clear instruction on what that verse means, and nothing less.

For starters, do you know who the book of Hebrews was written to, and what context it was given to them in?

You need to understand that, and then the key verses will begin to be rightly understood.

1) It was written to Jewish Christians, who were under persecution, again, for their belief in Christ.

2) While they had undergone the plundering of their homes and possessions in an early time, things were heating up and getting worse. The ordeal was heating up so bad that there was temptation to fall away from Christ and return to Judaism, but not yet had they shed blood for Christ.

Hebrews 12:4 In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood.




And:

Heb 10:32 But recall the former days when, after you were enlightened, you endured a hard struggle with sufferings,
Heb 10:33 sometimes being publicly exposed to abuse and affliction, and sometimes being partners with those so treated.
Heb 10:34 For you had compassion on the prisoners, and you joyfully accepted the plundering of your property, since you knew that you yourselves had a better possession and an abiding one.
Heb 10:35 Therefore do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward.
Heb 10:36 For you have need of endurance, so that you may do the will of God and receive what is promised.





So now, another thing to consider is that if we were commanded to meet with saints on a certain day of the week, or even everyday of the week, would that not be construed as a LAW, of which we are not under?

And by using Hebrews 10:25 to beat people into submission, does that not bare evidence of something out of joint?


So if Angela53510's Christian neighbors and friends are under persecution because of the Name of Christ, what temptation does Angela53510 face? What is the temptation to "oneself" when you see others undergoing persecution as they were?



ANSWER: The temptation is to distance oneself from the others, so that the same will not happen to yourself. So the writer of Hebrews is telling these Jewish Christians to "NOT neglect meeting together, as had become the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as they saw the Day drawing near!"

It's not a rebuke, but a glorious encouragement!

How wonderful! He is writing them saying, "What an opportunity, to go down in a blaze of Glory, for Jesus! Stand by one another. Do not neglect meeting together. Be ready and willing to suffer for our Lord!"


Now do you begin to see? I hope so.
 
Jul 10, 2015
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#14
it will always amaze me how new people turn up , as if we have all been sitting here waiting for them to teach us the errors of our ways, its not even the content of the post but the high and mighty attitude, i think there's some scriptures about that..

and i quote

'Okay... I'll give you one more, to corroborate what I just showed you. Same thing, but with a little bit more information, to PROVE to you what your deaf ears and blind eyes just simply do not want to believe.'

you may want to study pride and self righteousness cos thats all i can hear
I'll receive your word, to try and not come across so harshly. Maybe you will give me some slack due to all the bad treatment that is handed out, when a person tries to give proper understanding and context to things.

But okay... I'll try and temper it, again.
 

Yet

Banned
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#15
Seems we always have to apologize for teaching the word. Present scripture that cuts the legs off of sacred cows, get bashed for it, answer the bash and then get blamed for being out of order. It never changes.
 
P

prodigal

Guest
#16
we can run with a single doctrine or consider the word as a whole and there's a lot about how to communicate in love too with one another ......so obviously to some my point was not about a teaching issue but a communication issue..
 
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3Scoreand10

Guest
#17
Where does this pastor work?
Three hours visiting the sick in the hospistal.
Two hours at the old folks home visiting church members parents. They don't have time.
Two hours counselling a young couple having marriage problems.
Two hours helping a member get his son out of jail.
Two hours explaining to a member's grandma how to be saved because the member could not.
Two hours helping a new Christian understand about baptism.
Three hours visiting first time visitors who wanted the Pastor to come by.
One hour with your own family
Three hours Bible study to prepare Sunday morning Bible study ( 45 minutes), Sunday morning sermon ( 60 minutes), Sunday evening Bible study ( 60 minutes). Wednesday evening Bible study (60 minutes).
Four hours person hygiene and sleep.
Same schedule tomorrow.

If you have never pastored one of the Lord's churches, you have no right to judge those who do.
You have no idea how stressful and physically exhausting it can be.
 
Dec 19, 2009
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#18
I grew up thinking churches were near perfect, but it seems to me now that churches are very far from perfect. Too much pridefulness. Too much disobedience of the Lord's commandments. Too much meaningless lip service. Too much ignoring the Lord.
 
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3Scoreand10

Guest
#19
I grew up thinking churches were near perfect, but it seems to me now that churches are very far from perfect. Too much pridefulness. Too much disobedience of the Lord's commandments. Too much meaningless lip service. Too much ignoring the Lord.
All churches are imperfect because they are made up of imperfect men.
I you finds a perfect church, please don't join it because it would then be imperfect.
That is true for all of us.:rolleyes:
 
Dec 19, 2009
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#20
All churches are imperfect because they are made up of imperfect men.
I you finds a perfect church, please don't join it because it would then be imperfect.
That is true for all of us.:rolleyes:
But a church could make some effort to be perfect. Otherwise, what is its purpose?