Have we actually been saved?

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ember

Guest
#41
#41
Gr8grace said:
Ember, maybe I wasn't clear in my post? Your responses here don't add up to what I "think" I said.

I ain't the greatest at these darn word things we have to use to communicate!!!

Maybe Marc will answer my post? I think he will see where I am coming from? If not, I will try to splain better:D
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no prob! I don't want to misunderstand for sure...wanna have another stab?


wait a minute....hold the press...that post wasn't to you!
 
A

atwhatcost

Guest
#42
#42
ember said:
19Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.Righteousness Through Faith21But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.22This righteousness is given through faith in[SUP]h[/SUP] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile,23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

24and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,[SUP]i[/SUP] through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.27Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith.

28For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
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Righteous and justified isn't saved. Faith is not saved. Seriously. "Saved" means something. Righteous is a result of saved. Justified is a result of saved. Faith is a result of saved. They are not saved. They are the results of saved.

(I would think we'd be able to debate better if we understood the terms we're debating. Everyone seems to mix up life in Christ as the beginning, middle and end of the word "saved." So not that.)
 
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atwhatcost

Guest
#43
#43
Josefnospam said:
Saved from what?
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Saved from separation from God, death and hell.

(Ummmm, I'm allowed to say hell in this reference on this site, right? I think I've been spending way too much time keeping my language clean on here. lol)
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#44
Feb 7, 2015
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#44
Magenta said:
When fear has done its job and propelled us into better understanding
with the help of the Holy Spirit of God, then perfect love casts out fear.

:)
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Could you elaborate a lot more on that? What kind of fear are you talking about? where does it come from? How do we get it?
 
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crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#45
Nov 24, 2012
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#45
KennethC said:
You can disagree all you want but that is what they say but good luck on your path and growing in the word !!!
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Good luck? Luck? Is that how you bless someone? Sheesh.
 
E

ember

Guest
#46
#46
atwhatcost said:
Righteous and justified isn't saved. Faith is not saved. Seriously. "Saved" means something. Righteous is a result of saved. Justified is a result of saved. Faith is a result of saved. They are not saved. They are the results of saved.

(I would think we'd be able to debate better if we understood the terms we're debating. Everyone seems to mix up life in Christ as the beginning, middle and end of the word "saved." So not that.)
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justified means you are no longer having to pay the penalty of breaking the law

just like that passage from Roman states...works do not justify and they do not save

the bottom line is faith for all of it...ie Abraham was considered justified in God's eyes by his faith which he demonstrated by obedience...obedience means to God and not works

God is righteous and holy and the only one who is acceptable in His sight is the one who has never sinned but we know we all have sinned; therefore, we accept our justification and become righteous in God's eyes by belief in what Jesus has done for us

The terms are biblical

Justified: Theology. to declare innocent or guiltless; absolve; acquit.

Righteous: characterized by uprightness or morality:a righteous observance of the law.

God declares us justified by the righteousness of His Son when we, by faith, trust in Him. Jesus work is what saves, not ours


I suppose someone will come along and dispute it, so try a couple of commentaries
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#47
#47
ember said:
The problem appears to be understanding what sound doctrine consists of.

Faith saves, doctrine does not.

At any rate, your verses have nothing to do with what I wrote.

Check out the verses from Romans I posted as they indicate the actual doctrine one needs to ACCEPT and believe in order to be acceptable to God

Your works and your doctrine do not save
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Well actually a true active faith in the Lord is what saves, and that faith sticks to and keeps the sound teachings and commands of the Lord.

What did Jesus say in Luke 6:46-49 about the difference between a true faith and a false faith ???

He said a true faith that its foundation is built on Him will do what He said, and a false faith will hear but not do.

Apostle James says a hearer only and not a doer is deceived (James 1:22), and Apostle John says those keep His commandments have eternal life abiding in them by the Holy Spirit. (1 John 3:24)
 
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KennethC

Guest
#48
#48
crossnote said:
Good luck? Luck? Is that how you bless someone? Sheesh.
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That is called after multiple attempts of trying to show another the truth dusting my feet off and moving on !!!
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#49
Nov 24, 2012
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#49
KennethC said:
That is called after multiple attempts of trying to show another the truth dusting my feet off and moving on !!!
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For a Christian to wish someone 'good chance' (good luck) makes no sense to me period.
 
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Tintin

Guest
#50
#50
ToBeWithHim said:
How about Mark 11:26 "But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father who is in heaven forgive your transgressions.". How can you be 100% sure that you have forgiven everyone in your life so far?
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Good gravy! If that's how you read the Bible, I've very scared for you.
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#51
#51
Willie-T said:
Well, we are still not on the same page, it seems. All you seem to be doing is just reestablishing yourself back under a law in order to claim to be saved. Really, not much different than the Jews had already been doing for generations. While, I was speaking of understanding who Jesus is, and what and why His death accomplished something that affected our condition.
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There is still a standard a true born again believer will keep under the new covenant;

1 John 3:24
And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in Him, and he in Him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

James 1:25
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

The 613 written ordinances of the Mosaic law do not apply to new testament believers, but if you believe that no standard will still be upheld by believers in the new covenant you have been mislead as the bible says that born again believers will keep His teachings and commands. And by this you will know true believers from those who do not have the Holy Spirit abiding in them unto eternal life.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#52
Nov 24, 2012
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#52
KennethC said:
Well actually a true active faith in the Lord is what saves, and that faith sticks to and keeps the sound teachings and commands of the Lord.

What did Jesus say in Luke 6:46-49 about the difference between a true faith and a false faith ???

He said a true faith that its foundation is built on Him will do what He said, and a false faith will hear but not do.

Apostle James says a hearer only and not a doer is deceived (James 1:22), and Apostle John says those keep His commandments have eternal life abiding in them by the Holy Spirit. (1 John 3:24)
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Jesus saves...faith simply takes hold of that fact.
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#53
#53
crossnote said:
For a Christian to wish someone 'good chance' (good luck) makes no sense to me period.
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What did the Lord Jesus say about spreading the truth in the word?

He said give it to others and if they accept keep talking with them and give them more of the truth, but if they refuse to listen then dust your feet off and keep moving.

We can not spend to much time and energy on a few individuals who will not accept the truth over what they have been taught by another man. For we have others that need to have the seed planted in them, and I have done my job and now leave it in the hands of the Lord to bring them to the truth even if that means letting others bring it to them also.
 
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KennethC

Guest
#54
#54
crossnote said:
Jesus saves...faith simply takes hold of that fact.
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Yes but once again if a person does not have faith or has a false professing of faith in the Lord will not be saved unto eternal life through Him. Only those who have a true active faith in Him will be saved unto eternal life !!!
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#55
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
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#55
KennethC said:
Yes but once again if a person does not have faith or has a false professing of faith in the Lord will not be saved unto eternal life through Him. Only those who have a true active faith in Him will be saved unto eternal life !!!
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Jesus Saves. Is that so hard that you have to start inserting 'self' into the message?
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#56
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
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#56
KennethC said:
What did the Lord Jesus say about spreading the truth in the word?

He said give it to others and if they accept keep talking with them and give them more of the truth, but if they refuse to listen then dust your feet off and keep moving.

We can not spend to much time and energy on a few individuals who will not accept the truth over what they have been taught by another man. For we have others that need to have the seed planted in them, and I have done my job and now leave it in the hands of the Lord to bring them to the truth even if that means letting others bring it to them also.
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I can see dusting my feet off but wishing one 'Good Chance'?? That would ruin your Christian witness for our God doesn't run by chance or luck.
 
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Gr8grace

Guest
#57
#57
crossnote said:
Jesus saves...faith simply takes hold of that fact.
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Darn ,you are the bumper sticker master. Your one liners pack a big punch Brother.

You express true doctrine in a few words.............. that take most of us 20 to 30 pages to express.

I'm watching you.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#58
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#58
crossnote said:
Jesus Saves. Is that so hard that you have to start inserting 'self' into the message?
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Of course he does...he, by working and sustaining his salvation keeps himself in the good graces of Jesus....
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#59
#59
crossnote said:
Jesus Saves. Is that so hard that you have to start inserting 'self' into the message?
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Well keep denying all the scriptures from the Lord and Paul both that show a true belief in Him is an active one, which the bible multiple times by Jesus, Paul, John, and in Revelation that those who love and believe in the Lord will keep His teachings and commandments.

You can not take the word believe or scriptures that believe in them and make them stand alone without also using Luke 6:46-49 where Jesus showed a true faith from a false faith.




crossnote said:
I can see dusting my feet off but wishing one 'Good Chance'?? That would ruin your Christian witness for our God doesn't run by chance or luck.
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Well that is your opinion and you are titled to it !!!

For the word of God says only those who continue in the faith which consists of keeping the sound doctrine of His teachings will receive eternal life. The disobedient will not, and if you have tried by the Spirit to show them His truth and they still constantly deny it. There is not much more you can do for them but wish them good journey and pray for them that they will come to the light.
 
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KennethC

Guest
#60
#60
dcontroversal said:
Of course he does...he, by working and sustaining his salvation keeps himself in the good graces of Jesus....
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Things believers can still do according to the word of God




1. Fall from grace - Gal. 5:1-4,13


2. Be led away with error - 2 Pet. 3:17


3. Err from the truth - James 5:19-20


4. Weak brother may perish - 1 Cor. 8:11


5. Fall into condemnation - James 5:12


6. Be moved away from the hope - Col. 1:21-23


7. Deny the Lord who bought them - 2 Pet. 2:1


8. Depart from the living God - Heb. 3:12


9. Can be a castaway - 1 Cor. 9:27


10. Can become accursed children - 2 Pet. 2:14
 
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