Have we actually been saved?

[KennethC]

Jesus TELLS US... do the will of the FATHER.... without the will of the father WORKS in evidence... your faith is a DEAD faith. ALAS... there is a solution... repent of your dead works before God ask for forgiveness. Ask for a fresh filling of the holy spirit and revelation.... GOD IS GOOD!

Thank you for answering the questions and not avoiding them like some do.
My faith though is not a dead faith because my walk is full of the fruits of the Holy Spirit, as I do not wish to see any perish which is why I am so strong about pushing the whole truth acrossed.

Maybe I push a little to hard at times and should just walk on, but my love and care for others to know the dangers of continuing to live sinful lives is not just a lose of rewards. Repenting of dead works is that sinful nature that leads to eternal death and not eternal life, as it has nothing to do with baptism, laying on of hands, gifts of the Spirits as those things we will still do as God permits and instructs us to do.

God is good and I thank Him all the time for giving me the free will to live my life, and giving me the Holy Spirit to guide me in right and wrong and gaining strength to overcome where I am and was weak.

 

[posthuman]

Jesus died on the cross for our sins. Still, he expects us to repent of our sin, and if we don't, things can get very painful. Take a look around at the world and observe what happens to people that have chosen a life of sin.

the Lord gives, the Lord takes away -- still i will praise the Lord!

though He give me blessing, though He give me distress -- i will thank Him and lift up His name!

now of course blessing is better than chastisement. but we ought to be thankful for discipline when it comes.

 

[DiscipleDave]

Indeed the mention our salvation comes with our faith to Jesus, and not by any of our actions. In Ephesaisn 2:8, God tell us that "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God". It is further supported by the fact that the thief at the cross got saved simply because he repent and believed in Jesus Christ, he did nothing for the kingdom but yet his faith saved him.


However, is that the whole story? The scriptures I have found in the bible seems to suggest otherwise.


In James 2:14, God tell us "What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?". Suggesting work would be required to be saved, then what happen to be saved by grace? Also in Matthew 3:12 He tells us this "His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor and gather his wheat into the barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.”. Similar to the scriptures found in Matthew 25 where the unprepared virgins will be left behind. So in another word, we need to be prepared to get saved? Then what happen to the thief at the cross? I seriously doubt he had the time nor the ability to do all those things before dying at the cross.


There are so many things that can take you out of salvation, according to the bible itself.


In 1 John 3:15, God says "Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him." As much as we like to forgive everyone we have encountered in our life, its simply impossible to do so. You would be bound to hold grudges against someone at some point at your life. How can one forgives everyone?


Also in Matthew 5:20, God tell us "For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven." So we need to be better than the scribes and Pharisees in order to be saved? Then what happen to save by faith? what happen to "Salvation is a gift"?


In Matthew 22:14, God tell us "Many were called, few were chosen", what makes you think you were the few who were choosen? Remember its God who has chosen us, not us who have chosen God. Is there a scripture in the bible that suggest you are the one being selected to go to heaven? If there is, please do tell me.


In Matthew 7:21 God tell us that “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.". I am confused now, so is work now required for salvation? From what I understand, the thief at the cross get a really good deal, he dies immediately after getting saved by Christ. Christian being alive today were being tested in different ways, there is a possibility we can lose our faith if we do not passed those test. (WARNING: THE PREVIOUS STATEMENT MIGHT BE FALSE, THIS IS ONLY MY UNDERSTANDING OF THE BIBLE SO FAR). But just for the sake of discussion, in Romans 10:13 God saids "“everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” So what is it?

i will tell you the Truth, Many get Saved, but only a few will actually BE taken up by Jesus.

It is Judgment Day, that determines if a person is SAVED or NOT SAVED. Judgement Day is when the books are opened and it will be known who was written in the Book of Life and who was not written in it, and who was blotted out of it.
Judgement Day and ONLY that Day determines who is Saved and who is not Saved. i walk on the narrow and difficult path that leads to Eternal life, but just because i am on that path today does not guarantee that i will be on that same path tomorrow. The Struggle in this life is to remain on that path.

If Judgement Day was today, i am Saved and will be taken, because today i am walking in the light, walking that narrow difficult path. But what if tomorrow i am falsely accused of a crime, put in prison, raped by gang members, family turns against me, nobody loves me. will i still remain on the narrow difficult path, i like to think i would but who knows, i may turn away from God tomorrow. Would you deny Jesus if a rifle was held to your head? You don't really know until it happens now do you.

i strive to win the prize, i have not won the prize yet, that is Eternal Life. That is only granted on Judgement Day when my name is found in the Book of Life, the Day Jesus Returns and takes me up with Him, that is the Day that i will have won the Prize. Right now, i am running the race to win that prize. It cost me nothing to enter into the race (Getting Saved, Grace of God allowed me to participate in the race) Anyone can join the race (get Saved) does not mean they will complete the Race, Many people who are a part of this race, are sitting along the road DOING nothing at all, all the while thinking they are going to win the prize of Eternal Life, merely because they are a part of the race, they do error, and when they do not get the prize they will be full of wrath and bitterness and sadness, Because these did not run to win the race, they thought it was enough to merely participate in the race, they did not know they were to try to win the race.

Again i will say, Judgement Day is the ONLY Day that determines who is and who is not SAVED. Now i this day claim to be SAVED, this is True. But just because i claim it, does not make it so. As long as i walk in the flesh, i am not Truly SAVED, When Jesus takes me, and i then change into my Glorified body (immortal) That is when i am Truly SAVED, that is the Day that i am judged, that is the Day that my name is found in the Book of Life, that is the Day that i am SAVED.

He that hath ears let him hear.

Responding to OP

 

[posthuman]

so someone hears and accepts the gospel at a young age, spends the next 65 years of their life trusting in God, devoting their heart and mind and life to Him, evangelizing, praying, worshiping, walking in the light, living righteously being a servant of others, hating and fleeing from evil - in all things being beyond reproach and giving all glory to the Father, always meek and humble and contrite in heart and speech and deed..

then one day while in a car, someone crosses the center line and smashes into her, killing her instantly.
& in the last half-second of her life, she sees the impending accident and exclaims "####!"

am i to understand that because she died while uttering a curse, no matter what else may have happened in her life, no matter how much she may have trusted in God's mercy and not in herself, no matter how much that Christ preserved her and knew her, she's damned to hell?
because she didn't live ling enough to repent from one unsavory word that came out of her mouth in her last breath?

is that the scene the scriptures paint?

 

[dcontroversal]

so someone hears and accepts the gospel at a young age, spends the next 65 years of their life trusting in God, devoting their heart and mind and life to Him, evangelizing, praying, worshiping, walking in the light, living righteously being a servant of others, hating and fleeing from evil - in all things being beyond reproach and giving all glory to the Father, always meek and humble and contrite in heart and speech and deed..

then one day while in a car, someone crosses the center line and smashes into her, killing her instantly.
& in the last half-second of her life, she sees the impending accident and exclaims "####!"

am i to understand that because she died while uttering a curse, no matter what else may have happened in her life, no matter how much she may have trusted in God's mercy and not in herself, no matter how much that Christ preserved her and knew her, she's damned to hell?
because she didn't live ling enough to repent from one unsavory word that came out of her mouth in her last breath?

is that the scene the scriptures paint?

Just think there are some that believe that.........Jesus paid my entire sin debt roughly 1980 years ago....every sin I would commit was nailed to his cross and his righteousness was imputed to me by faith...when the Father looks at me he sees the blood and passes over...those who deny this, deny the bible!

 

[posthuman]

i used to play a game online that was a "capture the flag" scenario.
rounds would last 20 minutes, but the game was "won" only in the last 5 seconds -- because it didn't matter what happened during the rest of the match - the prize went to whomever had control of the flag when the game ended.

i always considered that an example of a broken level; bad coding. poor design.
i'd just sit in a corner hiding until the last 20 seconds of the match. nothing else mattered, after all.
but now i'm hearing that it's an accurate picture of life?

heh, learn something every day

 

[atwhatcost]

i will tell you the Truth, Many get Saved, but only a few will actually BE taken up by Jesus.

It is Judgment Day, that determines if a person is SAVED or NOT SAVED. Judgement Day is when the books are opened and it will be known who was written in the Book of Life and who was not written in it, and who was blotted out of it.
Judgement Day and ONLY that Day determines who is Saved and who is not Saved. i walk on the narrow and difficult path that leads to Eternal life, but just because i am on that path today does not guarantee that i will be on that same path tomorrow. The Struggle in this life is to remain on that path.

If Judgement Day was today, i am Saved and will be taken, because today i am walking in the light, walking that narrow difficult path. But what if tomorrow i am falsely accused of a crime, put in prison, raped by gang members, family turns against me, nobody loves me. will i still remain on the narrow difficult path, i like to think i would but who knows, i may turn away from God tomorrow. Would you deny Jesus if a rifle was held to your head? You don't really know until it happens now do you.

i strive to win the prize, i have not won the prize yet, that is Eternal Life. That is only granted on Judgement Day when my name is found in the Book of Life, the Day Jesus Returns and takes me up with Him, that is the Day that i will have won the Prize. Right now, i am running the race to win that prize. It cost me nothing to enter into the race (Getting Saved, Grace of God allowed me to participate in the race) Anyone can join the race (get Saved) does not mean they will complete the Race, Many people who are a part of this race, are sitting along the road DOING nothing at all, all the while thinking they are going to win the prize of Eternal Life, merely because they are a part of the race, they do error, and when they do not get the prize they will be full of wrath and bitterness and sadness, Because these did not run to win the race, they thought it was enough to merely participate in the race, they did not know they were to try to win the race.

Again i will say, Judgement Day is the ONLY Day that determines who is and who is not SAVED. Now i this day claim to be SAVED, this is True. But just because i claim it, does not make it so. As long as i walk in the flesh, i am not Truly SAVED, When Jesus takes me, and i then change into my Glorified body (immortal) That is when i am Truly SAVED, that is the Day that i am judged, that is the Day that my name is found in the Book of Life, that is the Day that i am SAVED.

He that hath ears let him hear.

Responding to OP

Well, okay? But that's not truth. Jesus promised that the ones he saves are the ones his Father gave him and he will keep. Completely destroys the notion of not-so-saved-at-Judgement-Day that you are preaching ineffectively and incorrectly.

John 6:35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me.39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

 

[atwhatcost]

so someone hears and accepts the gospel at a young age, spends the next 65 years of their life trusting in God, devoting their heart and mind and life to Him, evangelizing, praying, worshiping, walking in the light, living righteously being a servant of others, hating and fleeing from evil - in all things being beyond reproach and giving all glory to the Father, always meek and humble and contrite in heart and speech and deed..

then one day while in a car, someone crosses the center line and smashes into her, killing her instantly.
& in the last half-second of her life, she sees the impending accident and exclaims "####!"

am i to understand that because she died while uttering a curse, no matter what else may have happened in her life, no matter how much she may have trusted in God's mercy and not in herself, no matter how much that Christ preserved her and knew her, she's damned to hell?
because she didn't live ling enough to repent from one unsavory word that came out of her mouth in her last breath?

is that the scene the scriptures paint?

She is a true saint if her last words are "hash tag, hash tag, hash tag, hash tag!" lol

 

[BarlyGurl]

so someone hears and accepts the gospel at a young age, spends the next 65 years of their life trusting in God, devoting their heart and mind and life to Him, evangelizing, praying, worshiping, walking in the light, living righteously being a servant of others, hating and fleeing from evil - in all things being beyond reproach and giving all glory to the Father, always meek and humble and contrite in heart and speech and deed..

then one day while in a car, someone crosses the center line and smashes into her, killing her instantly.
& in the last half-second of her life, she sees the impending accident and exclaims "####!"

am i to understand that because she died while uttering a curse, no matter what else may have happened in her life, no matter how much she may have trusted in God's mercy and not in herself, no matter how much that Christ preserved her and knew her, she's damned to hell?
because she didn't live ling enough to repent from one unsavory word that came out of her mouth in her last breath?

is that the scene the scriptures paint?

Actually, I think it is YOU who is getting caught up in Legalistic thinking. The scenario above... would fit perfectly with Romans 7:24. I also think someone addressed this earlier example "uttering an expletive in a moment, is not the same a cussing as a manner of speech".

It seems like the SPIRIT of the law and the LETTER of the law are concepts that are not being distinguished here... oh wait... I think there is a verse for that... 2 Cor.3:6.

 

[BarlyGurl]

i used to play a game online that was a "capture the flag" scenario.
rounds would last 20 minutes, but the game was "won" only in the last 5 seconds -- because it didn't matter what happened during the rest of the match - the prize went to whomever had control of the flag when the game ended.

i always considered that an example of a broken level; bad coding. poor design.
i'd just sit in a corner hiding until the last 20 seconds of the match. nothing else mattered, after all.
but now i'm hearing that it's an accurate picture of life?

heh, learn something every day

2Peter 2:8 can give offer the righteous confidence, but don't you think it bears the insinuation that... YA CAN"T OUTWIT GOD?

 

[breno785au]

Is our hope of salvation a carnal hope? I confess that I once, without realizing it until light was shone upon it that I once did and now slowly unlearning that. An example, you're stranded on an island and you hope that a ship comes by and saves you, that's the world definition of hope. Our hope is, we are stuck on an island and we know a ship will come by and save us but we have to wait and our hope is the assurance it will come. It has been done, yet it is still to happen.
I used to talk a lot with a Muslim friend at work a few years ago about our faiths and he explained to me one day that the Muslim salvation is that everyone goes to hell, but God in His mercy will choose certain people to pluck out according to their good vs bad things they have done in their life. I confess, I subconsciously saw our faith like that too, relying on my own works. Our faith and salvation is in the finished work that Jesus did.
I'm sorry, I haven't read through all the posts in this thread, I probably should of but they are some that's I've had regarding the matter.

 

[posthuman]

Actually, I think it is YOU who is getting caught up in Legalistic thinking. The scenario above... would fit perfectly with Romans 7:24. I also think someone addressed this earlier example "uttering an expletive in a moment, is not the same a cussing as a manner of speech".

It seems like the SPIRIT of the law and the LETTER of the law are concepts that are not being distinguished here... oh wait... I think there is a verse for that... 2 Cor.3:6.

consider then that in one fraction of a moment our hypothetical saint did not trust completely in her heart, and that is why she said "####!"

does it really change the scenario?

if you fear for your earthly life with your last breath, instead of casting your anxiety on Him and willingly laying it down -- even if you don't say something that offends a weaker person with your mouth -- if in your heart you fail for an instant to completely trust, is the Father unable to keep you?

can a millisecond of disobedience or faltering belief nullify a lifetime of faith?
two milliseconds?
ten? a million?
are we measured in minutes and set on a balance?

 

[BarlyGurl]

consider then that in one fraction of a moment our hypothetical saint did not trust completely in her heart, and that is why she said "####!"

does it really change the scenario?

if you fear for your earthly life with your last breath, instead of casting your anxiety on Him and willingly laying it down -- even if you don't say something that offends a weaker person with your mouth -- if in your heart you fail for an instant to completely trust, is the Father unable to keep you?

Like I said earlier, uttering an expletive in a moment is not the same as cussing as a manner of speech, did you even LOOK UP the scriptures I cited in the previous comment?
The SINS that Jesus considers LAWLESSNESS/PRACTICING INIQUITITY are revealed in the scriptures.

can a millisecond of disobedience or faltering belief nullify a lifetime of faith? SO is this AUTHENTIC FAITH or the COUNTERFIT FAITH we are talking about here.... and how do we determine the difference? use scripture please.

SERIOUSLY posthuman.... your example is nonsensical. WE can sit here ALL day an make up absurd postulations to theorize over... trying to make our POINT be the winner. How about we stick to SCRIPTURES?

 

[posthuman]

consider then that in one fraction of a moment our hypothetical saint did not trust completely in her heart, and that is why she said "####!"

does it really change the scenario?

if you fear for your earthly life with your last breath, instead of casting your anxiety on Him and willingly laying it down -- even if you don't say something that offends a weaker person with your mouth -- if in your heart you fail for an instant to completely trust, is the Father unable to keep you?

Like I said earlier, uttering an expletive in a moment is not the same as cussing as a manner of speech, did you even LOOK UP the scriptures I cited in the previous comment?
The SINS that Jesus considers LAWLESSNESS/PRACTICING INIQUITITY are revealed in the scriptures.

can a millisecond of disobedience or faltering belief nullify a lifetime of faith? SO is this AUTHENTIC FAITH or the COUNTERFIT FAITH we are talking about here.... and how do we determine the difference? use scripture please.

SERIOUSLY posthuman.... your example is nonsensical. WE can sit here ALL day an make up absurd postulations to theorize over... trying to make our POINT be the winner. How about we stick to SCRIPTURES?

well it sounds like we're close to the same page then, because i think the whole example is absurd too --
the question it leads to in my head is how are we measured?
we're not measured by people in the same way that we're measured by God. (scriptural example: Romans 4:5 -- ask just about any human if God will justify an ungodly person who does no works. but yet there it is in the scripture)
it sounds absolutely absurd to us humans to measure someone's life by a few seconds of it. even a few minutes. for most people even a few hours. days. what about weeks? months? years? what's the cut-off point where a human wills start feeling comfortable judging another one's life - their soul - their status before God - measured in time?
what do you call "continuing" ? can you give a number of minutes?
here's where it starts sounding absurd to me. maybe it's because i'm a math guy, and one integer may as well be another. i think of them abstractly in so many other situations, and i've been taught lots of ways to measure them. it's "N" to me. is there a max? to me it's Nmax. a min? Nmin. i try not to assign values. most people do. and then, i think, most people second-guess those values soon after they've assigned them.

but what about God? does He consider us this way too? what does He call "continuing in sin" ? does He measure it in minutes? hours? years? wait - isn't He beyond time? didn't He choose us before the foundation of the world? doesn't He speak about the future as if it is the past? is He ever unsure of a conclusion, regardless of the present?

it's just like you say: we're talking about authenticity in faith here. and were talking about the heart here.
but the thing is, the heart and the flesh war against each other (scriptural example: Romans 7). as i understand, Christ has won that battle in my heart. there is no question of who will have ((has)) the victory. but the flesh? i'm not saying that's a battle that doesn't matter; not at all! but if this is a 'capture the flag' scenario -- is the 'flag' in the flesh or in the spirit? in the work of my hands or the direction of my heart? and does it depend only on the last 5 seconds of this 'match' ?

He gave me a new heart already (Ezekiel 11:19, 36:26, Romans 2:29, 12:2, 2 Corinthians 5:17 etc).
He promised me new hands (Proverbs 3:6, Isaiah 42:16, 45:2, John 6:40, Romans 6:8, 8:23, 1 John 3:2 etc).

yeah, i gave an absurd example. i din't make it up actually, it's something i heard in a sermon once.
it's meant to be absurd. in order to shake up the way we think, by taking some concept to an extreme that sounds really plausible otherwise.

this whole 'once saved always saved' description is really poorly phrased. maybe we would be on better footing if we asked "once a son or daughter, always a son or daughter?"
because "saved" doesn't carry the connotation for most modern American Christians of a radical change of state, and that's where the door is flung open to all this bickering.
most of this bickering is unnecessary. i'm afraid most of it might be useless or worse, counterproductive, too.

what do you think of this -- what's the difference? what's the functional difference if one person believes he has to keep up righteous living or suffer damnation, and another believes he has to keep up righteous living or shame his Father? don't both try to live right?
it's in motive, right? if both people are motivated by the Father, why don't they agree? are fear of God and love of God that antithetical? is the fault in the philosophy or in our attitude towards each other?
both halves of us are accusing the other half of things they don't say at all. that the one who's emphasizing doing good is trusting his own work. that the one who's emphasizing Gods grace is living lawlessly. most of us are looking for something to find fault with instead of something to agree with. most of us are looking for something to teach instead of something to learn. to give answers instead of asking questions.

well here's what i want to know - somebody teach me:
how do we stop all of this and instead thank & praise God?
how do we stand in unity? ((wait, i know that one -- by doing the first one))
are grace and works not reconciled? how? and how do i convince everyone of this so we can get back to being a single body, undivided?

 

[Magenta]

the Lord gives, the Lord takes away -- still i will praise the Lord!
though He give me blessing, though He give me distress -- i will thank Him and lift up His name!
now of course blessing is better than chastisement. but we ought to be thankful for discipline when it comes.

For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives.

 

[DiscipleDave]

so someone hears and accepts the gospel at a young age, spends the next 65 years of their life trusting in God, devoting their heart and mind and life to Him, evangelizing, praying, worshiping, walking in the light, living righteously being a servant of others, hating and fleeing from evil - in all things being beyond reproach and giving all glory to the Father, always meek and humble and contrite in heart and speech and deed..

then one day while in a car, someone crosses the center line and smashes into her, killing her instantly.
& in the last half-second of her life, she sees the impending accident and exclaims "####!"

am i to understand that because she died while uttering a curse, no matter what else may have happened in her life, no matter how much she may have trusted in God's mercy and not in herself, no matter how much that Christ preserved her and knew her, she's damned to hell?
because she didn't live ling enough to repent from one unsavory word that came out of her mouth in her last breath?

is that the scene the scriptures paint?

No.

There are three kinds of sins according to the Scriptures

1) Sins unto Death
2) Sins not unto Death
3) Sins not forgiven unto men

Sins unto death are those that are knowingly and willingly committed. Things that a person knows is sinful and chooses to do it any ways, are sins unto death. In the above example you give, merely saying a curse word is not a sin unto death at all. But if she freely chose to have a sexual relationship not being married, and a car crashed into the bedroom and killed her then, she is a fornicator, which she chose to be when she chose to do that which she knew full well is sinful and against God. Know you not that it is written a little bit of leaven leaveneth the whole lump? And your Master is to whom you choose to obey.

But you have described a Christian that will be taken up with Christ, and they are indeed very FEW.

Consider what you say about this person.

so someone hears and accepts the gospel at a young age, spends the next 65 years of their life trusting in God,

so she did not worry, or have doubts. If she Trusted in God, she would not have worries about the bills, the rent, the house payment, if her spouse is cheating on her, leaving her. Do Christians of today worry and doubt?

devoting their heart and mind and life to Him

If she had devoted her Heart and mind and life to Him, then she would not have any evil desires, such as looking at porn, fornicating, illegal drug use. Are there Christians today who look at porn, and fornicate?

evangelizing,

So she spread the Word of God to others. Do Christians of today inform their coworkers they are Christians, Do they spread the Word of God to others?

praying, worshiping,

So she prayed and thanked God before her meals. Giving Him thanks and having Him Bless the meal. And she went to Church on Wednesday and Sunday to worship Him. Do Christians of this generation pray before they eat a meal, Do they give God thanks for the meal they are about to eat? Do Christians of today go to any Bible Studies? Doe they even go to Church?

walking in the light,

So she did not walk in darkness. Do Christian today claim to be walking in the light, all the while they do deeds of darkness?

living righteously

So she does not do that which is UNrighteous, because the Bible is clear those who are righteous do that which is righteous, and those who are unrighteous, do that which is is unrighteous. Do Christians of today claim to be Righteous, yet do things that are clearly unrighteous, and still proclaim with their mouths they are righteous?

being a servant of others,

So she helped the needy, fed the poor, gave to those who asked, visited the sick, clothed the naked, gave to charities, helped people. Does today's Christian do these things?

hating and fleeing from evil

So she hated sinning? sinning is evil, yes? So she hated sinning. Do Christians of this generation hate to sin, do they flee from sin? Or do they altogether willing choose to commit the sin, and continue to commit that sin without ever ceasing from it, all the while praying "i repent" but continue to willingly commit those sins, which they LOVE to do. Does a person commit a sin they hate to do? or do they commit a sin they LOVE to do. Sure guilt may come after, but they still chose to commit the sin, over an over and over and over and over without ever ceasing from it, all the while thinking they are forgiven.

in ALL things being beyond reproach and giving all glory to the Father, always meek and humble and contrite in heart and speech and deed..

So in ALL things she did it was to give God the glory. Does this generation do all things to give God glory, or does this generation full of self gratifying tendencies, selfish?

This woman you described is a TRUE Christian, very few will walk that narrow and difficult path that leads to everlasting life. But a few will do it, and a few will be taken up with Jesus when He Returns.

^i^

Responding to post #124

 

[mpaper345]

There is nothing we can do to obtain our salvation,for all our efforts would fall short of the mark.If we had to rely only on ourself to obtain salvation we would not be able to do it,because our efforts would be done according to the flesh,in which we could not measure up.

That is why our works cannot save us,which means things we do according to our own efforts apart from the Spirit,because we could not have the righteousness that God requires,which God said our righteousness is as filthy rags.We could not love like God requires us,and love is the fulfilling of the law.We could not be in a state of being that would cause us to please God,and be able to dwell with Him in the spiritual realm,which God said those that are in the flesh cannot please God.

The only way we can please God is to be in the Spirit.That is what saves us is having the Spirit,for then we can be righteous like God wants us to be,and we can love the way God wants us to love,and we can please God being in the Spirit.

It is having the Spirit that saves us.Repenting of our sins,and the blood of Christ gets us to the Spirit,so we can have the Spirit.

So when the Bible says that faith without works is dead,it means we have to have works to have faith activated in our life,but these are works of the Spirit,like preaching the Gospel,feeding the poor,in general things that are love towards people,because love is the fulfilling of the law,so the Spirit would have us do things that are love towards people,which when we come to God what we are really doing is learning to love,where in the world we fell short of that love that fulfills the law.

Therefore it is not of ourself,our works that saves us,but it is works of the Spirit that causes faith to be active in our life,which is love towards people,because love is the fulfilling of the law.If you show love towards people like God wants,then you have fulfilled the law,and right with God,but this comes from the Spirit,and not our own efforts according to the flesh.

It is only by God that we can get to heaven,for it takes His effort in our life for us to be right with Him,therefore we cannot glory for our works fall short,and our righteousness does not measure up.

 

[DiscipleDave]

Originally Posted by DiscipleDave

i will tell you the Truth, Many get Saved, but only a few will actually BE taken up by Jesus.

It is Judgment Day, that determines if a person is SAVED or NOT SAVED. Judgement Day is when the books are opened and it will be known who was written in the Book of Life and who was not written in it, and who was blotted out of it.
Judgement Day and ONLY that Day determines who is Saved and who is not Saved. i walk on the narrow and difficult path that leads to Eternal life, but just because i am on that path today does not guarantee that i will be on that same path tomorrow. The Struggle in this life is to remain on that path.

If Judgement Day was today, i am Saved and will be taken, because today i am walking in the light, walking that narrow difficult path. But what if tomorrow i am falsely accused of a crime, put in prison, raped by gang members, family turns against me, nobody loves me. will i still remain on the narrow difficult path, i like to think i would but who knows, i may turn away from God tomorrow. Would you deny Jesus if a rifle was held to your head? You don't really know until it happens now do you.

i strive to win the prize, i have not won the prize yet, that is Eternal Life. That is only granted on Judgement Day when my name is found in the Book of Life, the Day Jesus Returns and takes me up with Him, that is the Day that i will have won the Prize. Right now, i am running the race to win that prize. It cost me nothing to enter into the race (Getting Saved, Grace of God allowed me to participate in the race) Anyone can join the race (get Saved) does not mean they will complete the Race, Many people who are a part of this race, are sitting along the road DOING nothing at all, all the while thinking they are going to win the prize of Eternal Life, merely because they are a part of the race, they do error, and when they do not get the prize they will be full of wrath and bitterness and sadness, Because these did not run to win the race, they thought it was enough to merely participate in the race, they did not know they were to try to win the race.

Again i will say, Judgement Day is the ONLY Day that determines who is and who is not SAVED. Now i this day claim to be SAVED, this is True. But just because i claim it, does not make it so. As long as i walk in the flesh, i am not Truly SAVED, When Jesus takes me, and i then change into my Glorified body (immortal) That is when i am Truly SAVED, that is the Day that i am judged, that is the Day that my name is found in the Book of Life, that is the Day that i am SAVED.

He that hath ears let him hear.

Responding to OP

Well, okay? But that's not truth. Jesus promised that the ones he saves are the ones his Father gave him and he will keep.

Are you then trying to tell me that Every single person that walks up the isle and gets SAVED, by believing Jesus is the Son of God and died and rose for them, confessing they are sinful, and repenting of their sins. That these are SAVED and will Always be SAVED? is that what you are saying. That all those who Get SAVED, ARE SAVED? Of a Truth, i know someone who got SAVED, lived a Godly life, prayed continually, gave her money away, in Church if the doors were open. was a better Christian than i have seen anywhere today. But turned atheist when her Grandmother dies a long painful death which she sat by her the whole time, praying to God, and NOTHING. After that, she does not believe there is a God at all. So tell me, is she numbered with the SAVED as well?, She accepted Jesus as her Savior and Lord, she confessed her sins, she repented of her sins, she lived most of her life serving others and loving God and Church, and worshipped continually. Every time i seen her, i asked her, who are you off to help today, and she would indeed be out and about helping others. Is She still written in the Book of LIfe, or is she blotted out because she does not even believe in God any more?

What if the Father gives Jesus Christ 100,000 SAVED souls. Are you saying that it is impossible for 200,000 people to claim to be SAVED? Just because someone claims to be SAVED, does not mean they are automatically one of the numbered. Do you know how you can tell one of the numbered? By if they have LOVE FOR ONE ANOTHER. Those who LOVE, have God. Those who hate, despise, backstab, and those who fulfill lustful and wicked desires, do NOT have God, no matter what they say with their mouths. they can think their whole lives they are one of the numbered ones, But if they do not LOVE, they are NOT.

Didn't Jesus plainly teach us there will be those who say "Lord, Lord, have we not done ....... " And He plainly teaches he does not know them, Who does He not know, but them that do NOT love one another, those who do not feed the hungry, those who do not cloth the naked, these are they that claim to be SAVED, they call Jesus LORD, is it not written a person can not call Jesus Lord unless it be by the Holy Ghost, these call Him "Lord" and will be rejected by Him, because they do NOT LOVE ONE ANOTHER. Jesus gave all Christian a NEW Commandment. Love One Another. Those who do that are accepted by Him and are one of the numbered. But Many and i say Many claim to be SAVED, and are not because they do not have LOVE in them. God is LOVE. If they do not have LOVE in them, they do not have GOD.

Well, okay? But that's not truth. Jesus promised that the ones he saves are the ones his Father gave him and he will keep.Completely destroys the notion of not-so-saved-at-Judgement-Day that you are preaching ineffectively and incorrectly.

What i teach is not from me, nor from my own intelligence, understanding, studies, own interpretations, what i teach is What God has told me to teach. If you do not believe what i teach, it is not i that you disagree with, but Him who told me these things. And He has told me "Love one another" many times.

John 6:35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.

Do a study in Scriptures what it means to believe in Him.

1Jn_3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn_4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
1Jn_5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
1Jn_5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
1Jn_5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. Does the wicked one tempt you and touch you?

36

But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe.

37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

Tell me, when satan comes to you and tempts you to commit sin, do you come to Jesus for His help against that temptation? Or do you ignore Jesus and obey satan and willingly commit that sin? Know you not with ever temptation God allows a path out of that temptation, and on top of that, God does not allow satan to tempt you above what you can handle. So every time you are tempted to commit a sin, God is there with the path out of it. Do you seek God then? Do you come to Jesus then? Those who are tempted to commit sin, altogether DENY Jesus when they choose to obey the enemy of Jesus. Satan tempts, Jesus allows a path out. all one has to do is go to Jesus, seek HIs help to overcome that temptation. NO not this generation fit for the wrath of God, they would rather just be tempted, ignore the help of Jesus Christ, NOT come to Him for help, but would rather just commit the sin which is against Jesus Christ. all the while claiming "Jesus is my Master and Lord and Savior" let Scriptures be True, who you choose to obey IS YOUR MASTER.

38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me.

39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.

Tell me, who is to say that He was not only given a hundred? or a thousand? Again, just because a person walks up the isle does not mean they are SAVED. Who is and who is not Saved is determined on ONE DAY, Judgement Day. When Christ comes down to gather the numbered which the Father has given to Him, and shall lose none of them, It is ONLY at that time that the Book is opened to see whose name is written in it, Many and i say millions have been blotted out of the Book of Life, because they choose to live to SELF and not to God. They are lovers of pleasures,, they are selfish, they fail to LOVE ONE ANOTHER. These all say "Lord, Lord, have we not walked up the isle, have we not confessed our sins, have we not repented", and He will say to them, "I never knew you, you that live in sin"

40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”[/QUOTE]

demons believe in Him, and will not have eternal life. As i said before, do a study on what it actually means to believe in Him. This wicked generation that is going to experience the Tribulation period, will believe one verse and ignore another, or make void another, or interpret that verse to mean something other that what is says. Here is the Truth, If what you believe contradicts even one verse in Scriptures then what you believe is WRONG!

So you continue to believe the verse that says believing in Jesus is enough for eternal Life, all the while ignoring the verse that plainly teaches this:

Heb_5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that OBEY HIM;

And what does He COMMAND us to do: Love One Another


Jesus LOVED Everyone.Those who belong to Him, and are numbered with Him, will do the same.

^i^

Responding to Post #127

 

[Patnubay]

i used to play a game online that was a "capture the flag" scenario.
rounds would last 20 minutes, but the game was "won" only in the last 5 seconds -- because it didn't matter what happened during the rest of the match - the prize went to whomever had control of the flag when the game ended.

i always considered that an example of a broken level; bad coding. poor design.
i'd just sit in a corner hiding until the last 20 seconds of the match. nothing else mattered, after all.
but now i'm hearing that it's an accurate picture of life?

heh, learn something every day

I wouldn't think so as it would be like burying a talent.