Have we actually been saved?

ToBeWithHim · Jul 29, 2015

Indeed the mention our salvation comes with our faith to Jesus, and not by any of our actions. In Ephesaisn 2:8, God tell us that "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God". It is further supported by the fact that the thief at the cross got saved simply because he repent and believed in Jesus Christ, he did nothing for the kingdom but yet his faith saved him.

However, is that the whole story? The scriptures I have found in the bible seems to suggest otherwise.

In James 2:14, God tell us "What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?". Suggesting work would be required to be saved, then what happen to be saved by grace? Also in Matthew 3:12 He tells us this "His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor and gather his wheat into the barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.”. Similar to the scriptures found in Matthew 25 where the unprepared virgins will be left behind. So in another word, we need to be prepared to get saved? Then what happen to the thief at the cross? I seriously doubt he had the time nor the ability to do all those things before dying at the cross.

There are so many things that can take you out of salvation, according to the bible itself.

In 1 John 3:15, God says "Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him." As much as we like to forgive everyone we have encountered in our life, its simply impossible to do so. You would be bound to hold grudges against someone at some point at your life. How can one forgives everyone?

Also in Matthew 5:20, God tell us "For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven." So we need to be better than the scribes and Pharisees in order to be saved? Then what happen to save by faith? what happen to "Salvation is a gift"?

In Matthew 22:14, God tell us "Many were called, few were chosen", what makes you think you were the few who were choosen? Remember its God who has chosen us, not us who have chosen God. Is there a scripture in the bible that suggest you are the one being selected to go to heaven? If there is, please do tell me.

In Matthew 7:21 God tell us that “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.". I am confused now, so is work now required for salvation? From what I understand, the thief at the cross get a really good deal, he dies immediately after getting saved by Christ. Christian being alive today were being tested in different ways, there is a possibility we can lose our faith if we do not passed those test. (WARNING: THE PREVIOUS STATEMENT MIGHT BE FALSE, THIS IS ONLY MY UNDERSTANDING OF THE BIBLE SO FAR). But just for the sake of discussion, in Romans 10:13 God saids "“everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” So what is it?
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Joidevivre · Jul 29, 2015

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ToBeWithHim · Jul 29, 2015

Joidevivre said:

How about Mark 11:26 "But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father who is in heaven forgive your transgressions.". How can you be 100% sure that you have forgiven everyone in your life so far?

passing_through · Jul 29, 2015

Untrue, heinous error, my brother, since we didn't have anything to do to gain salvation, it is sure that we can't do anything to lose it.

Joidevivre · Jul 29, 2015

...............

KennethC · Jul 29, 2015

Read 1 John chapters 2 through 4 as Apostle John shows there how to know if you really are saved !!!

Salvation is all about a true active faith in the Lord Jesus, if one does not keep that faith in Him they do not receive eternal life as Apostle Paul shows this multiple times from Acts 20:28-31 to Colossians 1:22-23 to 1 Timothy 4.

3Scoreand10 · Jul 29, 2015

I can only answer for myself.
YES I am saved. Have been since July 27, 1962. I will never forget that glorious night!
God gave me ETERNAL life and will NEVER take back that gift.

crossnote · Jul 29, 2015

Romans 5:9-10 (NET)
9 Much more then, because we have now been declared righteous by his blood, we will be saved through him from God’s wrath.
10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, how much more, since we have been reconciled, will we be saved by his life?

MarcR · Jul 29, 2015

ToBeWithHim said:

Indeed the mention our salvation comes with our faith to Jesus, and not by any of our actions. In Ephesaisn 2:8, God tell us that "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God". It is further supported by the fact that the thief at the cross got saved simply because he repent and believed in Jesus Christ, he did nothing for the kingdom but yet his faith saved him.

However, is that the whole story? The scriptures I have found in the bible seems to suggest otherwise.

In James 2:14, God tell us "What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?". Suggesting work would be required to be saved, then what happen to be saved by grace? Also in Matthew 3:12 He tells us this "His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor and gather his wheat into the barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.”. Similar to the scriptures found in Matthew 25 where the unprepared virgins will be left behind. So in another word, we need to be prepared to get saved? Then what happen to the thief at the cross? I seriously doubt he had the time nor the ability to do all those things before dying at the cross.

There are so many things that can take you out of salvation, according to the bible itself.

In 1 John 3:15, God says "Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him." As much as we like to forgive everyone we have encountered in our life, its simply impossible to do so. You would be bound to hold grudges against someone at some point at your life. How can one forgives everyone?

Also in Matthew 5:20, God tell us "For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven." So we need to be better than the scribes and Pharisees in order to be saved? Then what happen to save by faith? what happen to "Salvation is a gift"?

In Matthew 22:14, God tell us "Many were called, few were chosen", what makes you think you were the few who were choosen? Remember its God who has chosen us, not us who have chosen God. Is there a scripture in the bible that suggest you are the one being selected to go to heaven? If there is, please do tell me.

In Matthew 7:21 God tell us that “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.". I am confused now, so is work now required for salvation? From what I understand, the thief at the cross get a really good deal, he dies immediately after getting saved by Christ. Christian being alive today were being tested in different ways, there is a possibility we can lose our faith if we do not passed those test. (WARNING: THE PREVIOUS STATEMENT MIGHT BE FALSE, THIS IS ONLY MY UNDERSTANDING OF THE BIBLE SO FAR). But just for the sake of discussion, in Romans 10:13 God saids "“everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” So what is it?

James is NOT saying that works save you! He is saying that if you have true faith, the Holy Spirit within you will produce works. You cannot work to obtain or maintain Salvation; but if you truly have Salvation The Holy Spirit within you will be doing God's work.

MarcR · Jul 29, 2015

ToBeWithHim said:

Here again, the verse is saying that if you have truly believed unto Salvation, the Holy Spirit within you will prompt you to forgive even that which, in the flesh, is unforgivable. It is not your doing but God's work in you!

Christine1974 · Jul 29, 2015

I think for children and new believers telling them all you have to do to be saved is believe is a good way to start or plant the seed. But as that seed grows so does our understanding. I believe by growing as a Christian you go up levels so to speak. From milk to meat. Since God judges our hearts He knows what "level" we are on and we are judged according to that. I know that speaking for myself each time I read the bible I get more understanding than the time before. I think John 3:16 is a great scripture to start with bc it plants the seed.Then as we read those scriptures you posted with more knowledge and The Holy Spirit guiding us we can receive a deeper meaning.

BarlyGurl · Jul 29, 2015

In reference to the OP and the title of the thread...

I like you use the words "twice born" as opposed to saved, as I agree the bible is clear that you can reject salvation in the Lordship of Jesus by deed's. So in reflection of your topic, perhaps saying SAVED... is premature... because even tho the sacrifice was once for all... in baseball terms... Jesus hit the ball out of the stadium... but the players still have to run the bases and you aren't "safe" till you cross the home plate. We have the bible which instructs of the "conditons" or rules... on how to obtain what he freely offers us.

passing_through · Jul 29, 2015

BarlyGurl said:

In reference to the OP and the title of the thread...

I like you use the words "twice born" as opposed to saved, as I agree the bible is clear that you can reject salvation in the Lordship of Jesus by deed's. So in reflection of your topic, perhaps saying SAVED... is premature... because even tho the sacrifice was once for all... in baseball terms... Jesus hit the ball out of the stadium... but the players still have to run the bases and you aren't "safe" till you cross the home plate. We have the bible which instructs of the "conditons" or rules... on how to obtain what he freely offers us.

This devilish doctrine causes fear in God's people who are babes or not equipped with the word.

KennethC · Jul 29, 2015

BarlyGurl said:

I like this way you put it because Paul talked about salvation to the Corinthians in a way they would understand it to.

There was a big race held in Corinth and Paul used that to show how the salvation is received so that they could understand, and he said you have to run the race and cross the finish line to receive it. Showing eternal life is not guaranteed until you have ran the race and stood firm in the faith to the end. "For you have need of endurance for when you have done the will of God you will receive what is promised.".......(Hebrews 10:36)

atwhatcost · Jul 29, 2015

Have we been saved? I have no idea who has and hasn't been saved on here. I do know that some people seem to be saved and then walk away years later, so they weren't really. So, I'll never know about the people on here.

Am I saved? Yes! How do I know? Because I tried walking away but God is so obviously god I can't, even when I didn't like what he did to me and my hubby.

John 6:35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me.39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

KennethC · Jul 29, 2015

passing_through said:

Colossians 1:22-23
In the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

1 Thessalonians 5:8
But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Romans 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

1 Timothy 4:8
For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come. <----eternal life

1 Timothy 6:12
Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

1 Timothy 6:19
Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

2 Timothy 2:10
Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Titus 1:2
In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Titus 3:7
That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

crossnote · Jul 29, 2015

Christine1974 said:

I think for children and new believers telling them all you have to do to be saved is believe is a good way to start or plant the seed. But as that seed grows so does our understanding. I believe by growing as a Christian you go up levels so to speak. From milk to meat. Since God judges our hearts He knows what "level" we are on and we are judged according to that. I know that speaking for myself each time I read the bible I get more understanding than the time before. I think John 3:16 is a great scripture to start with bc it plants the seed.Then as we read those scriptures you posted with more knowledge and The Holy Spirit guiding us we can receive a deeper meaning.

I used to think that but the more I grow the deeper John 3:16 becomes..actually too deep to fully grasp. Selah.

passing_through · Jul 29, 2015

KennethC said:

Colossians 1:22-23
In the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

1 Thessalonians 5:8
But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Romans 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek forglory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

1 Timothy 4:8
For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come. <----eternal life

1 Timothy 6:12
Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

1 Timothy 6:19
Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

2 Timothy 2:10
Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Titus 1:2
In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Titus 3:7
That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

OK, but if you commit the least little sin you're going to be fire tender. If you have one lustful thought, then you will be separated from Christ forever and the smoke of your torment will ascend up forever. Watch you walk now.

atwhatcost · Jul 29, 2015

ToBeWithHim said:

Quite the spider's web you're stuck in. Let me straighten out this mess some.

It is true, faith doe not save, works does not save, righteousness does not save, swinging a dead cat three times in a graveyard at night does not save. (Last one is humor. Something Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn decided was a good thing to do, and I can't remember why now. lol)

Jesus saves. That's it. What he did on that cross was the way he did it, but it was Jesus that saved. And saved is a one time act. He did it once. I get it once. Not to be confused with that whole thing of losing salvation, because that can't be done, since it's all done by Jesus and he promised to not lose one his Father gives him.

The part folks get mixed up on is assumed "saved" is a what we do after being saved. It's not. It's what Jesus did on that cross. What we do afterwards is a reaction to Jesus' sacrifice and also what God instills in us to do when we are saved. It has another word attached to it.

That word is "sanctified." That's what we're doing after salvation all the way up to glorification. That's the faith part, the work part, and whatever else you worried was attached to "saved." It is NOT righteousness, cause we got none! None apart from Jesus' righteousness imputed on us.

Better? Less confusing? Makes sense?

Gr8grace · Jul 29, 2015

MarcR said:

Marc have you ever looked at James 2:14 as deliverance in this life? Not as justification unto salvation.

Once we are saved/born again, our object of faith becomes the mind of Christ.......bible doctrine.

If we don't grow in grace and knowledge(Faith) in this life we will not have the right kind of faith to deliver us the right works in everyday situations.

I believe this is why James goes right into a real world situation that requires the right kind of discernment in a real life situation.

If we don't make bible doctrine the object of our faith after we are saved, we will not have the right kind of faith to save us in everyday situations and problems. We will just have human solutions and not divine solutions.

I lean more to the idea James is talking about being saved(delivered) in our everyday activities and situations. With out bible doctrine as the object of our faith...........its useless and dead to deliver us from problems and provide divine solutions for us or others when we need them.

Have we actually been saved?

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