Are You Yest a Pagan?

[JaumeJ]

Researching the words pagan and gentile, you will learn they are interchageable, with the word, gentile, also having the meaning of non-Jew.

When we come to the Gate held by the descendants of Abraham, and we enter, we join those who are inside, Jews. We are become children of God, the Israel of God.

Does this translate as we have rejected the Gate? I think not.

Now if one wishes to call me a Jew, ok, I am by translation.

However, more accurately , one may refer to any believer as the Israel of God.

Now to truly understand all of this, one must read and learn the Word, all of the Word, with the guidance of the Holy Spiirt, but never acccuse others who love Jesus, and believe this, that they are trying to be Jewish,I because they are now Jews and the Israel of God, but you have to know what is being said by this instead of the latter day meanings attributed to these terms.

Whay would anyone reject being the adopted of the Father?

 

[didymos]

He who created me is my Father, not my adoptive father, and btw:

And do not think you can say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.'
I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. (Matthew 3:9 /niv)

 

[JaumeJ]

God has created all mankind. When we come to Jesus Christin faith we are given the power to become sons of God.

 

[crossnote]

Researching the words pagan and gentile, you will learn they are interchageable, with the word, gentile, also having the meaning of non-Jew.

When we come to the Gate held by the descendants of Abraham, and we enter, we join those who are inside, Jews. We are become children of God, the Israel of God.

Does this translate as we have rejected the Gate? I think not.

Now if one wishes to call me a Jew, ok, I am by translation.

However, more accurately , one may refer to any believer as the Israel of God.

Now to truly understand all of this, one must read and learn the Word, all of the Word, with the guidance of the Holy Spiirt, but never acccuse others who love Jesus, and believe this, that they are trying to be Jewish,I because they are now Jews and the Israel of God, but you have to know what is being said by this instead of the latter day meanings attributed to these terms.

Whay would anyone reject being the adopted of the Father?

I know of Messianic scholars who say believing gentiles are truly sons of God but the appellation "Israel of God" is reserved for the believing remnant of Jews from the natural line of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
I guess they are not into replacement theology which says 'the Church is now the Israel of God'. Replacement theology usually ends up being unfriendly to the Jews if not downright anti semitic. Sorry, if that is your view.

 

[just-me]

He who created me is my Father, not my adoptive father, and btw:

And do not think you can say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.'
I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. (Matthew 3:9 /niv)

Jesus is speaking to Pharisees who had no faith, they only wanted to be seen as righteous by their own works. I do not attribute to that false doctrine of works only. "Faith is the victory."

 

[just-me]

I know of Messianic scholars who say believing gentiles are truly sons of God but the appellation "Israel of God" is reserved for the believing remnant of Jews from the natural line of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
I guess they are not into replacement theology which says 'the Church is now the Israel of God'. Replacement theology usually ends up being unfriendly to the Jews if not downright anti semitic. Sorry, if that is your view.

Replacement theology or fulfillment theology, is a Christian theological view on the current status of the church in relation to the Jewish people and Judaism. It was first endorsed by the Universal church that came to be known as Catholic. That theory says that the Jewish people are no longer God's chosen people. Instead, the Christian church now makes up God's chosen people. So, in replacement theology the church has replaced Israel.

 

[crossnote]

Replacement theology or fulfillment theology, is a Christian theological view on the current status of the church in relation to the Jewish people and Judaism. It was first endorsed by the Universal church that came to be known as Catholic. That theory says that the Jewish people are no longer God's chosen people. Instead, the Christian church now makes up God's chosen people. So, in replacement theology the church has replaced Israel.

Right. And to say we are now the 'Israel of God' is at least on that path.

 

[JaumeJ]

It helps to study, and know what the words Judah and Israel actually mean. There are many translations of these two words, unhappily many are more based on what the person using the translation has in mind, more than what the words actually mean.

I first investigated this in the 1960's and since I have alway made reference to many subsequent postulations on the words. It has become quite confusing since I first began due to the agenda's os so many folks tilting the meanings.

I am stisfied, evensince first studying this, but it will take study for others to be as I am, that is comfortble with my understanding that it is linguistic and not agenda driven.

When I say the Israel of God, or a Jew, I know what I uinderstand, but apparently the majority of others are thinking in terms of what is called Judaism today, also something that does not exist, for the Children of Israel, all the tribes, simply have or had the faith of Abraham. Allo sects under the uimbrell of Judaism arenotnecessarily the faith of Abraham, rather they are new denominations since the advent of our Lord. And so it goes with all denomination called Christian, for we too are adopted into the family of God, Yahweh, and we too are of the faith of Abraham. It is pointless to emphasize any denomination in lieu of the Word of God with the faith of Abraham, which even he received from God, just as we have.

 

[just-me]

Right. And to say we are now the 'Israel of God' is at least on that path.

Jews are 1/12th of Israel as a whole. Israel, including the House of Ephraim are, (for all intents and purposes) Gentiles scattered throughout the world. The 2 sticks in God's hand (Ezekiel 37) is a prophecy that is incomplete to date, and is also the final result of God's will putting Jews and Gentiles (the lost 10 tribes) back together. Gentiles today are a mix of several nationalities and the "House of Ephraim" is incorporated into that mix.

 

[just-me]

And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matthew 19:28

If the original disciples of Jesus will judge all 12 tribes as they sit upon 12 thrones, how can Israel be exempt from the Kingdom of God which is Israel? How can Israel or the Jews be separated from the true “Kingdom of God” by a man made theology called “ replacement theology” when prophetic scripture reveals just the opposite? The true church/bride is the “Israel of God.”

Church of God, Israel of God. There is no difference. "Replacement theology” is false doctrine.

Are Protestants protesting Jews or Catholicism? You cannot do both simultaneously.

 

[JaumeJ]

Amen..........

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to just-me again.

And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matthew 19:28

If the original disciples of Jesus will judge all 12 tribes as they sit upon 12 thrones, how can Israel be exempt from the Kingdom of God which is Israel? How can Israel or the Jews be separated from the true “Kingdom of God” by a man made theology called “ replacement theology” when prophetic scripture reveals just the opposite? The true church/bride is the “Israel of God.”

Church of God, Israel of God. There is no difference. "Replacement theology” is false doctrine.

Are Protestants protesting Jews or Catholicism? You cannot do both simultaneously.

 

[jaybird88]

this makes me think of Jews that dont practice Judaism, they are still Jews.
pagan is a generic term, there were many gentiles that worshiped with the Jews and went to hear Jesus. Solomans temple was always open to Gentiles.

 

[JaumeJ]

The Temple, at the time of Jesus, the Second Temple, as was Soomon¡s Temple, wa open to any and all who practiced according to the teachings of the Word at that time. No no-Jew could come into the Temple, according to the law, however converts to the faith of Abraham were welcome.

As far as the word, pagen, being generic, with the same understanding so is gentile. No one who was not of the faith of Abrahm could ever be anything other than a pagan or gentile in the sense of each word regarding religious practice.

The denominations under the Christian umbrell have become first Hellenized, thd second made something only of the nations and no longer of Abraham that it is very difficult for many who love Jesus Christ to understand what faith, the faith of Abraham, truly is.

 

[crossnote]

Jews are 1/12th of Israel as a whole. Israel, including the House of Ephraim are, (for all intents and purposes) Gentiles scattered throughout the world. The 2 sticks in God's hand (Ezekiel 37) is a prophecy that is incomplete to date, and is also the final result of God's will putting Jews and Gentiles (the lost 10 tribes) back together. Gentiles today are a mix of several nationalities and the "House of Ephraim" is incorporated into that mix.

I'm using the definition most go by...the natural descendents of Abraham-->Isaac-->Jacob (all twelve tribes).
When Hitler went after the Jews he didn't go after 1/12 of Israel.

 

[jaybird88]

The Temple, at the time of Jesus, the Second Temple, as was Soomon¡s Temple, wa open to any and all who practiced according to the teachings of the Word at that time. No no-Jew could come into the Temple, according to the law, however converts to the faith of Abraham were welcome.

As far as the word, pagen, being generic, with the same understanding so is gentile. No one who was not of the faith of Abrahm could ever be anything other than a pagan or gentile in the sense of each word regarding religious practice.

The denominations under the Christian umbrell have become first Hellenized, thd second made something only of the nations and no longer of Abraham that it is very difficult for many who love Jesus Christ to understand what faith, the faith of Abraham, truly is.

when the Lord judges the pagans such as dont do this or that "like the pagans", i think the bible is being specific to their belief system and not nationality. its referring to the Canaanite system. this system is not just bad with lots of immoral, shameful behavior, its a Lord provoking religion. rebelling against our Lord was part of their doctrine. very evil. yet it was tempting as the Jews sold out to it on occasion.

 

[JaumeJ]

Now I understand what you believe somewhat better.

Please understand, if one was not of the Children of Israel, even at the time they were called Jews, they were gentiles, pagans, for they were not of the faith.

We are brought through the Gate, Jesus Chrisst, promised Abraham to be possessed by His descendants, and lo when we enter that Gate, we too are become the Israel of God.

In the Israel of God are all who truly believe Jesus Christ and whoever God has placed with them, for they are all His children.

When we stray from the Word's teachng of our spiritual history, Israel in the flesh, we also deny the teachings of Jesus Christ from Genesis through the final amen of Revelation.

It is true, Jesus Christ died on the cross betrayed by His own peple, His own tribe, but, as Jesus teaches, He was put to death at the hands of sinners. This means anyone who has sinned, and that would be all mankind other than our dear Lord.

Even at the time of Jesus, and up to it, people waited for teh Messiah of the Jews, and teh saying was and was true, salvation is from the Jews. Never lose sight of this truth, otherwise you fall into the trap of condemning them for His death. If you condemn anyone for His death, your judgment will also be upon yourself
for we are all sinners, guilty of His crucifixion. Blessed be our merciful Savior, and may we all be as mercifu as He, amen.

when the Lord judges the pagans such as dont do this or that "like the pagans", i think the bible is being specific to their belief system and not nationality. its referring to the Canaanite system. this system is not just bad with lots of immoral, shameful behavior, its a Lord provoking religion. rebelling against our Lord was part of their doctrine. very evil. yet it was tempting as the Jews sold out to it on occasion.

 

[prove-all]

I'm using the definition most go by...the natural descendents of Abraham-->Isaac-->Jacob (all twelve tribes).
When Hitler went after the Jews he didn't go after 1/12 of Israel.

a few notes

Hitler declared Britain the main enemy to be defeated and that Poland's
obliteration was a necessary prelude for that goal.

Jews declaired war on hitler

 

[crossnote]

The Israel of God, the term "Israel" in the New Testament

A sample...

"If there is an interpretation that totters on a tenuous foundation, it is the view that Paul equates the term “the Israel of God” with the believing church of Jews and Gentiles. To support it, the general usage of the term Israel is Paul, in the New Testament, and in the Scriptures as a whole is ignored. The grammatical and syntactical usage of the conjunction kai is strained and distorted–and the rare and uncommon sense accepted when the usual sense is unsatisfactory–only because it does not harmonize with the presuppositions of the exegete. And to compound matters, in the special context of Galatians and the general context of the Pauline teaching, especially as highlighted in Romans 11, Paul’s primary passages on God’s dealings with Israel and the Gentiles, are downplayed. . . . the doctrine that the church of Gentile and Jews is the Israel of God rests on an illusion. It is a classic case of tendentious exegesis"

 

[blue_ladybug]

are you YEST a pagan? Apparently so because I eat Halloween candy..lol..

 

[just-me]

The Israel of God, the term "Israel" in the New Testament

A sample...

"If there is an interpretation that totters on a tenuous foundation, it is the view that Paul equates the term “the Israel of God” with the believing church of Jews and Gentiles. To support it, the general usage of the term Israel is Paul, in the New Testament, and in the Scriptures as a whole is ignored. The grammatical and syntactical usage of the conjunction kai is strained and distorted–and the rare and uncommon sense accepted when the usual sense is unsatisfactory–only because it does not harmonize with the presuppositions of the exegete. And to compound matters, in the special context of Galatians and the general context of the Pauline teaching, especially as highlighted in Romans 11, Paul’s primary passages on God’s dealings with Israel and the Gentiles, are downplayed. . . . the doctrine that the church of Gentile and Jews is the Israel of God rests on an illusion. It is a classic case of tendentious exegesis"

Is the God of Israel a thing of the past, and has the Israel of God (what belongs to God) ceased to exist or has it never existed?