Caught up in the clouds

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jan 7, 2015
6,057
78
0
#1
A lot of people wonder when the catching up to the Lord shall be, and where they go. But this event is clearly spoken of in scripture as happening at the last trump beginning with the shout, or great voice. What many may not know though is the raising of the dead in Christ first is also shown in the Lords 2 witnesses being caught up to heaven, as their dead bodies also represent the dead in Christ being raised up first. Let’s piece this mystery together to show the timing of events, and where they go.

1 Corinthians 15:52 “In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.”
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:[SUP]17 [/SUP]Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with themintheclouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”

Ok, first notice the connection of the dead being raised first, and the
shout or voice mentioned and the trump of God. But also notice how Paul described they would be caught up, which was intheclouds. Now let’s go to where the 2 witnesses are being raised up from the dead.


Revelation 11:12-19 “
And they heard a
greatvoice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seventhousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

[SUP]14 [/SUP]The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.[SUP]15 [/SUP]And the seventh angel sounded; and there were greatvoices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,[SUP]17 [/SUP]Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.[SUP]19 [/SUP]And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.”

Alright first notice the sequence of events, the
great voice is heard first (shout) and the dead in Christ are raised first, and then the remnant that remain give glory to God, and then
7[SUP]th[/SUP] trump sounds=last trump. But also notice the dead are caught up to heaven in the clouds, this is an important sign to confirm as to where they are going. So with that let’s view this at another angle in….


Continued on next.....
 
Jan 7, 2015
6,057
78
0
#2
Daniel 7:9-14 “I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.[SUP]10 [/SUP]A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.[SUP]12 [/SUP]As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.[SUP]14 [/SUP]And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.”

Ok, this is the same event but with more details, first notice the
beast was slain and his body given to the burning flame. And then also notice the Son of man (Son of God) coming to the Ancient of days in heaven (God the Father) with all the saints (with the clouds of heaven) as we saw the dead caught up to heaven in the clouds in Rev. 12:12. By the way the clouds represent the great cloud of witnesses shown in
Hebrews 12:1

This same event in Daniel can also be confirmed again here….


Revelation 19:19-21 “
And I saw the
beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

[SUP]20 [/SUP]And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.”

Notice there the
remnant slain as also shown in Rev. 11:13, but there is also a remnant who would repent and give glory to God.


And then it picks up again in Revelation 20: 4-6
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.[SUP]6 [/SUP]Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”

So by all these scriptures we get a better idea of when the catching up to the Lord will be, and where the saints go for the first resurrection judgement, and remain, at least until the
indignation of God’s wrath is complete.


Isaiah 26:20-21 “
Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the
indignation be overpast.[SUP]21 [/SUP]For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity:the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.”
 
Jan 7, 2015
6,057
78
0
#3
John 14:2-3 "In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.[SUP]3 [/SUP]And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."


1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


Hosea 6:2
After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

Revelation 11:11
And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. [SUP]12 [/SUP]And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them."
 
Feb 1, 2015
1,198
15
0
#4
Once I was settled in the Pretrib rapture, but since I have been on this board I am less sure. Now you bring up the trumpets, there are seven trumpets in the Tribulation.

Right now I can teach with authority on either belief, I need to be taugh.
 
Jan 7, 2015
6,057
78
0
#5
What is interesting about the book of Revelation if you notice, is that it reads kind of like a rotation. Much like in the story of the 7 priests blowing their trumpets (or horns) while walking around the city of Jericho in rotations. The first 6 days the 7 priests made one rotation, or 6 x 7= 42 (like 42 months) Kind of like 6 seals x 7= 42, as I believe the 6th seal being loosed will mark that point in time, though I believe the 42 months is symbolic of time. And then after the 6 days the 7 priests on the 7th day would make 7 rotations around the city, or 7x7=49.

This same sign was given to us in the generations leading up to Jesus, and also after his death. We see in Matthew 1:17 “So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.”

There were 3 sets of 14 generation periods from Abraham to Jesus, or 3x14=42 (sign of time) This can also be shown like 7 priests x 6 rotations= 42 (Joshua 6: 13-14) And also after Jesus was crucified there was a countdown in the law of 7 Sabbaths, or 7x7=49 days to Pentecost, which then began the time of the Gentiles.

I believe this extension of time of 7x7 can also be shown like the days of Noah, when after Noah and his family had entered into the Ark the Lord left the door open 7 days more before it was shut. I believe this sign can also be seen with the extension of time between the 1,260 to the 1,335 shown in Daniel. But I believe the time of wrath will be cut short as is also written.

What is also interesting is there was about 1,985 years between the covenant with Abraham to the New Covenant Jesus brought in at his death, and we at present are nearing that same amount of time from between Christ crucified and our present time. And it is also written the Lord shall make a new covenant with Israel "after those days" referring to the fullness of the Gentile period. This is when the Lord shall remove ungodliness from Jacob as Paul said.

And so I believe the 6th seal is soon to be loosed, thus ended the times of the Gentiles.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#6
The ones caught up into the clouds are saints here on the earth when Christ comes. This is the church. The trumps in Revelation have nothing to do with the church but are judgment on the world unsaved and on Israel. The tribulation is not for the church but for the world and apostate Israel.

The church is persecuted by the world but God will bring judgment and tribulation on the lost while sparing His church.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Feb 1, 2015
1,198
15
0
#7
Once I was settled in the Pretrib rapture, but since I have been on this board I am less sure. Now you bring up the trumpets, there are seven trumpets in the Tribulation.

Right now I can't teach with authority on either belief, I need to be taugh.
[10 characters]
 
Jan 7, 2015
6,057
78
0
#8
The trumps in Revelation have nothing to do with the church but are judgment on the world unsaved and on Israel. The tribulation is not for the church but for the world and apostate Israel.
You may want to rethink that position by looking at the timing of events as shown in scripture...

Revelation 16:15 "Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame."
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#9
Once I was settled in the Pretrib rapture, but since I have been on this board I am less sure. Now you bring up the trumpets, there are seven trumpets in the Tribulation.

Right now I can teach with authority on either belief, I need to be taugh.
I used to believe pre-trib until I had to teach through 1st and 2nd Thessalonians....now after 26 years of study and a 212 page book on the second coming I am post-trib, pre-wrath at the 7th trump of Revelation........
 
Feb 1, 2015
1,198
15
0
#11
I used to believe pre-trib until I had to teach through 1st and 2nd Thessalonians....now after 26 years of study and a 212 page book on the second coming I am post-trib, pre-wrath at the 7th trump of Revelation........
But the wrath comes during the second half of the Trib.

You really have trashed the pre-Trib rapture?
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#12
But the wrath comes during the second half of the Trib.

You really have trashed the pre-Trib rapture?
I don't know what you mean trashed....rejected yes....The great tribulation is 42 months, or 3.5 years or 1260 days followed by the wrath of God which is 45 days....Daniel 12 clearly states there is yet 1335 days left once it starts....I believe the following break down...

30 days of false peace
1260 days of the great tribulation
45 days of wrath

I am pre-wrath post tribulation resurrection/change which takes place at the 7th trump of Revelation of the which three things take place

1. Day of the Lord commences with Jesus seizing control of all earthly Kingdoms
2. Day of Christ commences with the rewarding of the saints, prophets and those who fear God
3. Day of God commences with God pouring out his wrath on the unbelieving gathered under the beast

Jesus is Lord, Christ and God....

Go to my blog on this site, download my book and read it.....you will see why I changed my mind!
 
Feb 1, 2015
1,198
15
0
#13
I don't know what you mean trashed....rejected yes....The great tribulation is 42 months, or 3.5 years or 1260 days followed by the wrath of God which is 45 days....Daniel 12 clearly states there is yet 1335 days left once it starts....I believe the following break down...

30 days of false peace
1260 days of the great tribulation
45 days of wrath

I am pre-wrath post tribulation resurrection/change which takes place at the 7th trump of Revelation of the which three things take place

1. Day of the Lord commences with Jesus seizing control of all earthly Kingdoms
2. Day of Christ commences with the rewarding of the saints, prophets and those who fear God
3. Day of God commences with God pouring out his wrath on the unbelieving gathered under the beast

Jesus is Lord, Christ and God....

Go to my blog on this site, download my book and read it.....you will see why I changed my mind!
Discarded, rejected, yes.

We must keep in mind that it is the time of Jacob's or Israel's trouble, I believe it will be localized, not effected America per se.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#14
Discarded, rejected, yes.

We must keep in mind that it is the time of Jacob's or Israel's trouble, I believe it will be localized, not effected America per se.
Hmmm...well I believe it will be world wide........Peace is taken from the EARTH and the result affects a quarter of the EARTH'S population and there comes a point in time when the WEST is not found listed after the BEAR at the command of the three ribs in it's mouth rises and devours much flesh.....The people of the earth attempt to hide...how can you think it is just localized to the Middle East......now that I don't get!
 
Feb 1, 2015
1,198
15
0
#15
At the time Revelations was related to John what was the Earth at that time Europe, British Isles, Middle East, they knew nothing of the West so what is the Earth he writes about, hmmm.

Sad, I was counting on the Pre-Trib Rapture. So I guess I am going to be a disembodied spirit, that's not cool. ha :)