If we deserve eternal punishment....

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nogard

Senior Member
#1
Aug 21, 2013
331
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#1
"If we deserve eternal punishment, then it would seem that the moral thing to do would be to accept our punishment."

I heard this statement today and wanted to share it with you all to get your thoughts on the matter. If someone commits a crime, I think we'd all agree the moral thing to happen is for that person to be punished, and the moral thing for that person to do is to accept their punishment.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#2
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
3,650
113
#2
The saved person accepts the fact that they deserve eternal punishment but also receives Jesus who bore that punishment in their place.
Only the insane would want to be punished eternally when Another offers them pardon.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#3
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#3
crossnote said:
The saved person accepts the fact that they deserve eternal punishment but also receives Jesus who bore that punishment in their place.
Only the insane would want to be punished eternally when Another offers them pardon.
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And that is why God has done everything possible but believe for us as it is not our fault that we have Adam's nature...God is just and fair for sure....!
 
H

hind_let_loose

Guest
#4
#4
It depends on the circumstances.

For instance, suppose a government passes a law that prohibits speeding, and anyone caught speeding at a certain very fast speed will be imprisoned for 5 years. But that government's laws also leaves it to the discretion of the judge whether someone caught speeding at this rate will be sentenced at all.

In that situation, it seems that the moral thing to do is to accept that if you're a guilty speeder, you would be willing to submissively accept the 5 year imprisonment if the judge sentences you to it, but that you would still desire him to set you free so that you could do something else with your life. (Presumably, we should desire to be in a situation where we can do the best things. And you could do better things outside of prison than inside prison, most of the time.)

That said, if God has made a way for mercy in Jesus Christ, and we are guilty sinners, then we should recognize that we indeed deserve to be damned. And, if we were damned, we should be willing to confess that it is just and right. However, it is perfectly moral and acceptable to desire mercy since God has made a way to grant mercy that is consistent with His justice.
 
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nogard

Senior Member
#5
Aug 21, 2013
331
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0
#5
Yeah, the smart decision is to take the pardon. But is it the moral decision?

Imagine a man were to steal something and get arrested. At the trial he is convicted and sentenced to 5 years, but the attorney is able to find a loophole to get him pardoned. It would be smart for him to accept the pardon that his attorney offers him, but would it not be moral for him to serve his punishment allotted by the courts in regard to the crime he admittedly committed?

Edit: We posted at the same time so you kind of responded to this post I just made. I suppose I see where you are coming from. I think one could still make an argument though that skirting punishment rightfully due to us may not be the most moral of actions.
 
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atwhatcost

Guest
#6
#6
nogard said:
"If we deserve eternal punishment, then it would seem that the moral thing to do would be to accept our punishment."

I heard this statement today and wanted to share it with you all to get your thoughts on the matter. If someone commits a crime, I think we'd all agree the moral thing to happen is for that person to be punished, and the moral thing for that person to do is to accept their punishment.
Click to expand...
Yes, you go spend your life without God, get final death and then eternity in hell and call it "morality." Brilliant!

I'll stick with repenting from my lack of morals, and accept Christ work on the cross.
 
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atwhatcost

Guest
#7
#7
nogard said:
Yeah, the smart decision is to take the pardon. But is it the moral decision?

Imagine a man were to steal something and get arrested. At the trial he is convicted and sentenced to 5 years, but the attorney is able to find a loophole to get him pardoned. It would be smart for him to accept the pardon that his attorney offers him, but would it not be moral for him to serve his punishment allotted by the courts in regard to the crime he admittedly committed?

Edit: We posted at the same time so you kind of responded to this post I just made. I suppose I see where you are coming from. I think one could still make an argument though that skirting punishment rightfully due to us may not be the most moral of actions.
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If you had good morality you wouldn't be headed to hell. Silly game.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#8
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
3,650
113
#8
nogard said:
Yeah, the smart decision is to take the pardon. But is it the moral decision?

Imagine a man were to steal something and get arrested. At the trial he is convicted and sentenced to 5 years, but the attorney is able to find a loophole to get him pardoned. It would be smart for him to accept the pardon that his attorney offers him, but would it not be moral for him to serve his punishment allotted by the courts in regard to the crime he admittedly committed?

Edit: We posted at the same time so you kind of responded to this post I just made. I suppose I see where you are coming from. I think one could still make an argument though that skirting punishment rightfully due to us may not be the most moral of actions.
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But in our case before God, Someone else has paid the moral obligation so we are morally free and moral to receive the pardon offered, and because it was at the cost of Another's life it would be immoral not to receive the offer..
 
Gozinia

Gozinia

Banned
#9
Feb 11, 2015
243
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#9
It is the Moral decisions to accept the pardon...(IF) one has repented and accepted Christ to become born again...we got a get out of jail free card, but not a get out of discipline card. If we want the get out of jail free card as OldHermit put it "we must accept the conditions of the offer"...otherwise yeah...we take our deserved punishment...But thankfully God is full of Grace and mercy if we accept him and Jesus as our Lord.
 
GuessWho

GuessWho

Senior Member
#10
Nov 8, 2014
1,227
34
48
#10
nogard said:
If someone commits a crime, I think we'd all agree the moral thing to happen is for that person to be punished, and the moral thing for that person to do is to accept their punishment.
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I think the person should accept the punishment because, like you say, it is the moral thing to do from a strictly juridical point of view.
If the person feels nothing for what she's done, than only punishment and public opprobrium might help her feel regret. So, even if she doesn't accept the punishment, she will still get in prison because the people asks justice to be done. That's how society works.
If the person instinctively feels remorse and repents for what she's done she will cry to God and will do exactly what Zacchaeus did: make peace with the world by accepting the prison or whatever the punishment is and make peace with God. You can't receive the peace of God if you are in war with your brother or with yourself. In this case, the criminal don't act in the virtue of an impersonal and religious "must do", but in the virtue of love and peace of God.

Too many times we, christians, do things because we feel we must do them, we are supposed to do them. But this is not the relation that God wants. The only pre-requisite to enter in relation with God is to freely desire Him.
 
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Galahad

Guest
#11
#11
nogard said:
Yeah, the smart decision is to take the pardon. But is it the moral decision?

Imagine a man were to steal something and get arrested. At the trial he is convicted and sentenced to 5 years, but the attorney is able to find a loophole to get him pardoned. It would be smart for him to accept the pardon that his attorney offers him, but would it not be moral for him to serve his punishment allotted by the courts in regard to the crime he admittedly committed?

Edit: We posted at the same time so you kind of responded to this post I just made. I suppose I see where you are coming from. I think one could still make an argument though that skirting punishment rightfully due to us may not be the most moral of actions.
Click to expand...
The moral thing to do is to voluntarily make some form of restitution of what was stolen.

Loop hole? If the law has an out, there's nothing wrong with taking the out. This would allow the thief to pay or return what was stolen. That's the moral thing to do.
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

Banned
#12
Dec 19, 2009
27,513
128
0
71
#12
nogard said:
"If we deserve eternal punishment, then it would seem that the moral thing to do would be to accept our punishment."

I heard this statement today and wanted to share it with you all to get your thoughts on the matter. If someone commits a crime, I think we'd all agree the moral thing to happen is for that person to be punished, and the moral thing for that person to do is to accept their punishment.
Click to expand...
The Lord disciplines us for our own good. He forgives us when we repent. It's a little different than the various criminal justice systems on earth.
 
E

Elin

Banned
#13
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#13
nogard said:
"If we deserve eternal punishment, then it would seem that the moral thing to do would be to accept our punishment."

I heard this statement today and wanted to share it with you all to get your thoughts on the matter. If someone commits a crime, I think we'd all agree the moral thing to happen is for that person to be punished, and the moral thing for that person to do is to accept their punishment.
Click to expand...
Yes, morality demands that my debt be paid, not that I pay it myself.

Morality does not preclude the acceptance of mercy from another for the debt.

Jesus paid my debt to God's justice for me.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#14
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#14
Elin said:
Yes, morality demands that my debt be paid, not that I pay it myself.

Morality does not preclude the acceptance of mercy from another for the debt.

Jesus paid my debt to God's justice for me.
Click to expand...
Amen to that and thank God for sure!
 
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