Good manners -- questions. Not a sermon.

[crossnote]

WOW!!!

the honesty by some in here is so REFRESHING!!!

as pointed out, there are a LOT of aspects to the 'good manners' question that 'atwhatcost' presented.

soul-searching 101 is a must.......may we inquire with humble hearts to our Maker in order for us to grow
in grace and Godly character....
Father, please show us our weaknesses and please give us the strength in You to become stronger and stronger
in Your righteousness and Your Holy Faith...
'



as it is written,
we can do nothing without You.'

Yeah I think honesty comes when people sense they're not about to be ambushed...

 

[VioletReigns]

The people on this site who have helped me the most to see something in me that wasn't exemplifying the grace of Jesus are the ones who illustrate the humility and grace of Jesus Christ themselves. They are like iron sharpening iron, and I can easily accept correction from them because they love like Jesus. It doesn't matter if they are young or old, they exhibit Jesus' grace and sweet mercy and I learn from them. And that's the way I want to help others.

Jesus said, "Treat other people the way you want to be treated." That's pretty much the best standard I know.

Anyone who never reveals their own weaknesses or never admits they are being rude or self-righteous are easily recognized throughout these forums. They always seem to be in confrontation, judging others but never judging themselves. I have a very difficult time when I see them more interested in appearing wise and right, rather than considering others in love.

Sister Atwhatcost, you do not appear to be like that to me at all! The simple fact that you're seeking ways to love others more like Christ, tells me that your heart desires God's will above your own. ♥

 

[atwhatcost]

I just noticed, the 2Timothy 4:2 passage is suppose to read "...Refute, warn, and encourage with the utmost patience when you teach."

Well, then WHEW! That means I don't have to worry about becoming one of the many who weld "God bless you" like thier finely sharpened broadsword in a fight. It's not in there, so not a problem.

Then again, that "utmost patience" really is there and that's always been my problem. So, shoot!

How do you teach patiently when patience is still annoying?

 

[oldhermit]

Well, then WHEW! That means I don't have to worry about becoming one of the many who weld "God bless you" like thier finely sharpened broadsword in a fight. It's not in there, so not a problem.

Then again, that "utmost patience" really is there and that's always been my problem. So, shoot!

How do you teach patiently when patience is still annoying?

I am not responsible for what others think.

 

[crossnote]

Well, then WHEW! That means I don't have to worry about becoming one of the many who weld "God bless you" like thier finely sharpened broadsword in a fight. It's not in there, so not a problem.

Then again, that "utmost patience" really is there and that's always been my problem. So, shoot!

How do you teach patiently when patience is still annoying?

I'll give you some advice that I DON'T practice but I believe would help if YOU did LOL...wait and pray at least ten minutes before responding to a 'testy' post . (I expect a response after 10 min. lol)

 

[VioletReigns]

Yes, I really am looking for a methodology that guarantees favorable results. But I suspect you're thinking of a different result than I am. I've been a Christian for 43 years and I did telemarketing successfully for 3-5 years. How are the two connected? The key to successful telemarketing is not to give up trying and to know when I have a shot at closing the deal and when it's time to walk away. No hard feelings if the person didn't want the deal even when that deal was me. (I telemarketed myself once to get a new job. It worked, but not on the first call. lol)

There are hard feelings when I'm unsuccessful in reaching a brother. The stakes are higher. (God.) The product is more important. (People's lives.) It gets emotional, and somewhere along the way, it stops being about that and starts being about me. The result I want is less me (no me is better) and more God and others. Somehow I think that is connected to manners, boldness, and "brutal honesty," (which truthfully usually means we've lost prospective so claim that to slam another.)

Have you ever noticed that when most people do that blessing you talk about from 2 Tim., what they're really doing is pretending they're taking the higher ground, because they're really losing? They're angry. It doesn't seem right to use God as a weapon in such a situation, and yet that's how I've always seen people using that. I don't know what properly using that looks like, because of that.

So, yes, I want a favorable result. I want it to work out right in me, even when it's one of many of those times when the only way a person will hear is through that major miracle, but God doesn't give that miracle that time. Then the other major miracle is I walk away knowing God is thinking, "Well done, good and faithful servant" so I didn't screw up. Favorable result.

That was a beautiful post. Not many people have the insight (or guts) to post so openly.

Amen, Brother Willie! That's exactly what I mean regarding humility. Atwhatcost's pure heart in Christ is showing! Anyone who can be open and honest like that you know is being led of the Holy Spirit. Glory to God! \/

 

[MarcR]

Rom 15:14
14 And I myself also am persuaded of you, my brethren, that ye also are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge, able also to admonish one another.
KJV


Col 3:16
16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
KJV


Heb 3:13
13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
KJV


Heb 10:24-25
24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
KJV

We are certainly told not to judge one another; but that, IMO, means that we are not to determine the eternal consequence of another's faults.

The verses I have cited seem to confer on us a responsibility to guard both our own and our brother's or sister's testimony; especially when they seem to have lost sight of the fact that they are damaging their testimony.

 

[atwhatcost]

Yes this is exactly true and we also need to remember to take this into account:

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

When you take and are reproofing, rebuking for correction, and instructing others, if you are not using the Sword (Word of God) then the way you are doing it is wrong. For the scriptures are what we are to use in pointing out to others how they are walking or acting wrong in the faith, and not use conjectured opinions.

When you see a person constantly using scripture over and over again, and the other person/s hardly ever give scripture (Book, chapter, and scripture number) then you know who is following the proper pattern by the Holy Spirit.

The Whole Armor of God:

Helmet - hope of receiving salvation

Breast plate - righteousness

Girdle on waste - full truth of God

shod your feet - prepare yourself

Shield of faith - Holy Spirits received by the Lord to guide you

Sword - Word of God

Before I respond with what I'm about to say know I loved Mom with all my heart. Still do and she's been gone for 43 years now.

But you remind me of her. She lost most of the calcium in her teeth during her first pregnancy. Because of that, she had quite the obsession about doing right to keep our teeth. Her four big commandments were:
1. Don't smoke.
2. Don't drink Pepsi.
3. Don't chew gum.
4. Don't drink coffee.

Her fifth was the only one that made any sense when compared to the first four:
5. Do as I say, not as I do.

The only time she wasn't chewing gum was when she was drinking her coffee. I've seen her coffee cup sold as soup bowls now, and she drank 5-7 cups of coffee a day. She smoked 3-packs a day.

Lesson learned: I tend not to put much stock in people that say the words but don't apply them.

(I also smoke, drink Diet Decaf Pepsi or Coke most of the time, but never did get the draw of drinking coffee nor chewing gum.)

 

[atwhatcost]

......JUDE 1:18-23

Good verses. One question: How do you show mercy with fear?

 

[peacefulbeliever]

[SUB]I'm a bit perplexed. I'm hoping to get some help.

I know we're supposed to love one another. I know we're supposed to press toward being more like Christ. I just don't know how to tell the difference between that and good manners, or even if there is a difference. I suspect there is.

I see people bending over backward and even maybe a little upside down to reprove in a loving way, and I really get they are loving. It's not an act. I'd like to be more like that.

But then I see others being just as loving and yet say things I don't dare say, because it doesn't seem mannerly. (Manners was really drilled into me as a kid -- even before I remembered having anything drilled into me. lol)

And, in both cases, I see the same results -- 90% of the time they get sliced-and-diced by the person they're trying to talk things out with. So, frankly, neither approach seems to work, and it feels like there is no approach that will ever work, except through a major miracle from God.

So, honestly asking? Anyone have any scripture that tells us how to do this? Anyone know the differences of "nice," "mannerly," "boldly," or "God's way" of handling it?

And, yes, I know the go-to verses.

Matt. 15:15 “If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother.16 But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses.17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

I just don't know the Biblical way to "tell him his faults." I know what my training is. Not the same thing.

I don't want to be a doormat nor "brutally honest." I want it God's way, but I don't know what that looks like, so does anyone have any verses for that? Including how to react when it doesn't go well? (I'm thinking punching isn't it. lol)[/SUB]

When I read a thread [probably dealing with a touchy subject] but it is of interest to me I will post but I always try to remember "How would I like to be spoken to?" "What will make me want to listen to what a person has to say?" I will tell you that it is not a post that degrades me or makes me feel like I'm just stupid!

This verse came to mind - Now I know we are not all apostles, prophets, evangelist, pastors but I do think that to some degree everyone on here has knowledge to impart so we all "teach":

And he gave some apostles; and some prophets; and some evangelists; and some pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints for the work of the ministry for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith and the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ: That we be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness whereby they lie in wait to deceive; But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, Christ: From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth according to the effectual working in the measure of every part maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love. Eph. 4:11-16

"the truth in love" . . . just seems everyone has a different "truth"! Jesus was full of grace and truth - so I believe that the truth should be taught tempered with grace, grace, and more grace.

But believe me there are times when I do just wanna punch somebody!!!!

 

[Magenta]

to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.

He seems to be speaking to the fear of being corrupted ourselves, after being purified by the blood of Christ. So we show mercy to those still living an unrepentant life, but with the fear of knowing how easily we can ourselves be deceived by sin.

 

[atwhatcost]

I could write a post likened to yours, but my words would be different... because we are different... but my heart yearns in the same manner. God looks at the inward man.... so if I wrote that corresponding post <as mentioned above> should we lay them side by side and let people critique who did it better... or would it be more pleasing to the LORD to ask Him to help us discern with our spiritually eyes and see HIM expressed in the two?

I no more expect people to critique the writing on here than I expect to buy a sandwich at the doctor's office. Since I actually write, I know where to get my critiquing done. lol

And no, this isn't really a thing where we look for God in someone's words. I'm truly asking how to do God's will better. Jude 1:18-23 helped quite a bit (and was written better. lol)

 

[atwhatcost]

No.... Really?

The news is out?

LOL

 

[atwhatcost]

Yeah I think honesty comes when people sense they're not about to be ambushed...

View attachment 129697

Nah, I'm covered by guilelessness. I'm actually expecting to be ambushed, eventually. lol

 

[Joidevivre]

Honest question. Do you think the Holy Spirit answers that prayer quickly all the time?

The reason I ask is I have a strong Mama Bear instinct. I see someone being attacked and my tendency is to swarm all over the attacker. My goal is to stop the person from being attacked even if that means the attacker go after me. My fear in praying is God often takes a long time to get his answer through to me, and meanwhile that person is being attacked.

So, honest question, when you do remember to do that do you get a quick response?

And, yes, I see my problem there too. I'm going to protect that person until God shows up. (Dumb, dumb, dumb concept!!!) So I'm really asking if God shows up in time if I didn't take that approach?

I was not referring to seeing someone being attacked. You are high gear protective mode, and of course move quickly. I was mostly referring to confronting someone in just a conversation.

And if I sense it might get misunderstood or even volatile, I wait until I get "go ahead" feeling after praying. I'm praying with my eyes open still looking at the person and letting there be a little silence. It did take YEARS of practice - because I used to be SO impulsive. And there are still times when that happens even now.

Being an impulsive person has its advantages - such as you saving a life, etc. Go for it then!

 

[dcontroversal]

The truth is rather simple and come from the words of Jesus......

He sent John the Baptist who warned the vipers to flee the coming wrath
Jesus himself came warning of the wrath to come....
John was straight laced and in their face
Jesus ate and drank with them

At the end of the day they didn't dance........

Sometimes no matter how you say something it will not be received.....and to be honest boldness does not equate to rudeness and the problem with words typed on a page is the inability to see facial expression and or emotion....it is real easy to read attitude into a message typed out.....I am a blunt person, say it like it is and a lot of time people think I am being angry or mad or mouthy (I know sometimes I am) but for the most part I am usually a happy go lucky kind of guy just saying what is on my mind......

Another problem is that people are easily offended...one sign of spiritual maturity is not being easily offended and what I see here is the ones who claim to be so spiritual are very easily offended!

 

[BarlyGurl]

Good verses. One question: How do you show mercy with fear?

I think Magenta answered this question accurately. But then I wonder if YOU are satisfied or were more wanting an actual situational example?

 

[oldthennew]

good post JOI,

it's all about discernment and patience once again, and HONESTY with ourselves.

our fervent prayers will bring results, IF we are praying with a heart that is honest and sincere.
this is where the TRUE TEST comes in, and are we open and willing to......cast down strong holds or imaginations????
within ourselves????

11COR.10:5.
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God,
and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

what Paul is trying to get across here is that we HAVE to CAST-DOWN our emotional 'strong-holds'
that are contrary to God's Will.
if we can't recognize them in ourselves, we certainly can't recognize them in others.

as it is written,
He knew all men'...

 

[crossnote]

I think there is a small element of culture that affects perception.
My wife, for example, is East Coast, I am mostly West Coast.
On the EC people tend to be more blunt, in your face, direct etc.
On the WC people tend to be so 'sensitive', 'understanding', 'patient' in a word mushy.

So yes, the Holy Spirit works on the impetuousness of one and the hidden pride of the other.
...wait hold on...what's that?.. yes, dear!..sorry, the boss is calling LOL

 

[atwhatcost]

I'll give you some advice that I DON'T practice but I believe would help if YOU did LOL...wait and pray at least ten minutes before responding to a 'testy' post . (I expect a response after 10 min. lol)

1 Mississippi, 2 Mississippi, 3 Mississippi...

I'l be right back.