TWO PERSPECTIVES

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MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
#1
Historically, America has experienced a major revival within the first 2 decades of every century since the seventeenth century. If history indeed repeats itself, our nation is on the brink of a major revival.


Rev 3:14-22
14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
KJV

It should be remembered that Laodicea, at the time John wrote Revelation, was both a city and a nation. There were likely individual home churches within Laodicea, which remained faithful. History reveals that while God indeed deals with people individually; He also deals with nations collectively.

As revealed by the books of Kings, Chronicles, and the Prophets; God, in His dealings with apostasy in the nation of Israel, God urged repentance up to, during and beyond times of national judgement. This did NOT altar the fact that there came about times beyond which national judgement was unescapable.

When these times came, God protected His faithful through them; but judgement still came.

I believe that the first five seals have already been opened. I am not sure whether we are beyond the time for a last national revival.
 
Last edited:
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#2
Historically, America has experienced a major revival within the first 2 decades of every century since the seventeenth century. If history indeed repeats itself, our nation is on the brink of a major revival.


Rev 3:14-22
14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
KJV

It should be remembered that Laodicea, at the time John wrote Revelation, was both a city and a nation. There were likely individual home churches within Laodicea, which remained faithful. History reveals that while God indeed deals with people individually; He also deals with nations collectively.

As revealed by the books of Kings, Chronicles, and the Prophets; God, in His dealings with apostasy in the nation of Israel, God urged repentance up to, during and beyond times of national judgement. This did NOT altar the fact that there came about times beyond which national judgement was unescapable.

When these times came, God protected His faithful through them; but judgement still came.

I believe that the first five seals have already been opened. I am not sure whether we are beyond the time for a last national revival.
Although many disagree with me I believe the U.S. is the (DAUGHTER) of Babylon<--prodigy of....a couple of things listed about the Daughter of Babylon are...

1. She knew GOD in truth and DEPARTED
2. WE (God) would have healed her, but SHE would not.....

She (DAUGHTER of BABYLON) is called (1 and 2 below) and there are some 80 characteristics found concerning HER...when taken into account with the nations on the planet (HINDERMOST) gives the timing of her existence amongst other timing characteristics....it is 10.5 billion to one which nation it is!

1. The HINDERMOST of the NATIONs
2. The LADY of the Kingdoms
3. MOUNTS her DEFENSES to the UTMOST HEAVENS

I believe the fact that this nation, by law has embraced homosexuality and is proof we are beyond the ability to be healed....Romans teaches that it is a sign of a reprobate mind (collectively), is the last straw and to expect judgment!
 
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A

atwhatcost

Guest
#3
Historically, America has experienced a major revival within the first 2 decades of every century since the seventeenth century. If history indeed repeats itself, our nation is on the brink of a major revival.


Rev 3:14-22
14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
KJV

It should be remembered that Laodicea, at the time John wrote Revelation, was both a city and a nation. There were likely individual home churches within Laodicea, which remained faithful. History reveals that while God indeed deals with people individually; He also deals with nations collectively.

As revealed by the books of Kings, Chronicles, and the Prophets; God, in His dealings with apostasy in the nation of Israel, God urged repentance up to, during and beyond times of national judgement. This did NOT altar the fact that there came about times beyond which national judgement was unescapable.

When these times came, God protected His faithful through them; but judgement still came.

I believe that the first five seals have already been opened. I am not sure whether we are beyond the time for a last national revival.
With all due respect, (and this time I really mean it, versus how often that's used right before slamming someone lol) you know we disagree completely on the End Times stuff, but we're still bros. So, not going to argue with you.

But, I am curious. Did the revival in the late 60's early 70's not count? Or do you think that wasn't one? (I'm a bit befuddled on if the Azuza Street one was really a revivial, so it's fine if you don't think the Jesus Movement one was.) Or, could that have been the one for this century? And if that was one, do you think you and I will see the next one -- assuming we'll live another 10-30 years.

I'd like to see another one. It's been a long time, in my book, and I came out of the Jesus Movement one. I'm just tired of the dryness in the desert since then.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
#4
With all due respect, (and this time I really mean it, versus how often that's used right before slamming someone lol) you know we disagree completely on the End Times stuff, but we're still bros. So, not going to argue with you.

But, I am curious. Did the revival in the late 60's early 70's not count? Or do you think that wasn't one? (I'm a bit befuddled on if the Azuza Street one was really a revivial, so it's fine if you don't think the Jesus Movement one was.) Or, could that have been the one for this century? And if that was one, do you think you and I will see the next one -- assuming we'll live another 10-30 years.

I'd like to see another one. It's been a long time, in my book, and I came out of the Jesus Movement one. I'm just tired of the dryness in the desert since then.
Lynn,

Many centuries included in that span of time had more than one revival. I genuinely believe that the revival of the late 1960s and early 1770s was a true revival.

All four centuries mentioned had a revival in the first 2 decades; whether or not there was more than one.

I believe that all four centuries had more than one; but I don't discern a time pattern to the others.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
3,650
113
#5
Marc must be a glass half full kinda guy, my glass is half empty, I just don't see it but nevertheless I shoul...we should be praying for one.
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#6
With all due respect, (and this time I really mean it, versus how often that's used right before slamming someone lol) you know we disagree completely on the End Times stuff, but we're still bros. So, not going to argue with you.

But, I am curious. Did the revival in the late 60's early 70's not count? Or do you think that wasn't one? (I'm a bit befuddled on if the Azuza Street one was really a revivial, so it's fine if you don't think the Jesus Movement one was.) Or, could that have been the one for this century? And if that was one, do you think you and I will see the next one -- assuming we'll live another 10-30 years.

I'd like to see another one. It's been a long time, in my book, and I came out of the Jesus Movement one. I'm just tired of the dryness in the desert since then.
Boy, if the Jesus People Movement couldn't be seen as a revival, I don't know what could.
 
I

Is

Guest
#7
Although many disagree with me I believe the U.S. is the (DAUGHTER) of Babylon<--prodigy of....a couple of things listed about the Daughter of Babylon are...

1. She knew GOD in truth and DEPARTED
2. WE (God) would have healed her, but SHE would not.....

She (DAUGHTER of BABYLON) is called (1 and 2 below) and there are some 80 characteristics found concerning HER...when taken into account with the nations on the planet (HINDERMOST) gives the timing of her existence amongst other timing characteristics....it is 10.5 billion to one which nation it is!

1. The HINDERMOST of the NATIONs
2. The LADY of the Kingdoms
3. MOUNTS her DEFENSES to the UTMOST HEAVENS

I believe the fact that this nation, by law has embraced homosexuality and is proof we are beyond the ability to be healed....Romans teaches that it is a sign of a reprobate mind (collectively), is the last straw and to expect judgment!
God works only within those who are desperate.
 
R

RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#9
it is really just an assumption that the world is on a collision course with the end time...it is unfortunate that this assumption is so often being pushed as if it were certain biblical truth...

it is just as possible that a revival could come that reverses a lot of the wickedness we are seeing at the present time...we must not forget that God often causes revivals when people least expect them...
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#10
it is really just an assumption that the world is on a collision course with the end time...it is unfortunate that this assumption is so often being pushed as if it were certain biblical truth...

it is just as possible that a revival could come that reverses a lot of the wickedness we are seeing at the present time...we must not forget that God often causes revivals when people least expect them...
Except for the fact that mankind in general and on the whole is exhibiting the characteristics that are found concerning humanity when the end is close at hand.....and the Middle East seems to be steaming full ahead toward a confrontation that will be global in scope........
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
3,650
113
#11
[video]http://youtube.com/watch?v=ntLsElbW9Xo[/video]

A little dated :D
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
#12
it is really just an assumption that the world is on a collision course with the end time...it is unfortunate that this assumption is so often being pushed as if it were certain biblical truth...

it is just as possible that a revival could come that reverses a lot of the wickedness we are seeing at the present time...we must not forget that God often causes revivals when people least expect them...

IMO, Matthew chapter 24, Mark chapter 13, and Luke 21 are written to help us recognize the signs of the end times; and in light of world history since 5/15/1948; they do precisely that.

Mark 13:32 seems to indicate that there is indeed a specific day and hour, known only to the Father, when the rapture, [if there is to be one (I don't want to argue that here)], and the second coming will occur.

While I share your hope for revival; I don't believe that anything can change the predetermined day and hour known only to the Father; since He already knows what will happen and when it will happen in the world..
 
R

RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#15
Except for the fact that mankind in general and on the whole is exhibiting the characteristics that are found concerning humanity when the end is close at hand.....and the Middle East seems to be steaming full ahead toward a confrontation that will be global in scope........
there were times in ancient israel where they exhibited the characteristics that were found at the times when the northern and southern kingdoms were destroyed...and in a few cases those trends were temporarily reversed by revivalist reformer kings...

so i will never count out God's ability to give his faithful a temporary reprieve...
 
R

RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#16
While I share your hope for revival; I don't believe that anything can change the predetermined day and hour known only to the Father; since He already knows what will happen and when it will happen in the world..
i don't believe the predetermined day and hour can be changed either...

however we don't know when that predetermined time is going to be...it could be much further in the future than most christians think...
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#17
there were times in ancient israel where they exhibited the characteristics that were found at the times when the northern and southern kingdoms were destroyed...and in a few cases those trends were temporarily reversed by revivalist reformer kings...

so i will never count out God's ability to give his faithful a temporary reprieve...
This isn't ancient Israel and the sings of the closeness of the end are all around us...including the apo-hystamie from the truth en masse!
 
A

atwhatcost

Guest
#18
Lynn,

Many centuries included in that span of time had more than one revival. I genuinely believe that the revival of the late 1960s and early 1770s was a true revival.

All four centuries mentioned had a revival in the first 2 decades; whether or not there was more than one.

I believe that all four centuries had more than one; but I don't discern a time pattern to the others.
There might be a pattern. I think God does patterns, except he's got time working for him, instead of us working against time. I get a kick out of there only being four generations in Egypt. And there really was, since Joshua was considered young when he was in his 50's or 60's (I forget which already) in his first wilderness battle, and Moses was a young 80 when Pharaoh let his people go. Then again, I don't think all 12 brothers had all their kids in the same year and then all those kids had their first kids exactly 100 years later. Still if 100 years old was average, it was four generations.

I suspect God keeps gong with that, but I'm stuck on all kids must match exact years, (not to mention no one can do clear genealogy back 1000 years, once more thousands of years, to pick up on the pattern.)
 
A

atwhatcost

Guest
#19
Boy, if the Jesus People Movement couldn't be seen as a revival, I don't know what could.
I remember what happened, but I also saw how many walked away later. Seems to me the truly saved can't walk away. (No. I'm not using those four initial for the usual headers of too many post on this forum. lol) If that many don't stick around, was it a revival or a happening?
 
A

atwhatcost

Guest
#20
it is really just an assumption that the world is on a collision course with the end time...it is unfortunate that this assumption is so often being pushed as if it were certain biblical truth...

it is just as possible that a revival could come that reverses a lot of the wickedness we are seeing at the present time...we must not forget that God often causes revivals when people least expect them...
I'm really not an End Timer. Still? One day Jesus descends, everyone ascends, and eternity with God for those whom he has chosen. "Collision" just doesn't seem like the right word. All doomy and gloomy. Closer to "and you think winning the multi-million dollar lottery is good? You ain't seen nothing yet!"

God wins. He doesn't win until Jesus gets everyone his Father gives him, so I really don't think it's a matter of getting more than he ever planned to get. I liked it back in the days when you could freely talk about God, and most people didn't look at you like they're measuring you for a strait jacket. Really loved those days, but no matter how God plans this, he's got it right.