New Testament written in Aramaic, not Greek.

[Todd_TruthSeeker]

Title says it all. I think this is worthy of its own thread.

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The New Testament, including the book of Revelation, was not written in Greek, as is commonly taught in 98% of the seminaries around the world. Except for Luke, they were all Jews who, being raised in Jewish culture, abstained from anything Gentile. Perhaps they could speak a little Greek, or Latin, but they would never have learned to write it. They thought that anything gentile was to be stayed away from.

The New Testament was written in Aramaic, and the modern "Eastern Church" in Israel has always maintained this.

To read the New Testament Aramaic, converted to English, you need to look for "Peshitta" version, and I have a couple, and my favorite is the one translated by Lamsa.

There are lots of little gems to discover that give way to mistaken notions in "christianity" due to their reliance on the Greek, but for the most part, the Greek translation from Aramaic, has been very good.

I'll give an example, and you'll see how obvious this becomes, showing that the New Testament was originally in Aramaic.

EXAMPLE, from the Greek:

Matt 19:24 "Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

The Greek translators thought the Aramaic word they were translating into Greek was "camel".

Now, look at the actual Aramaic word from the original book of Matthew:






As you can see, the actual word Jesus spoke was "rope", not camel, but the writing of it in Aramaic resembles the word "camel". There is a very slight deviation between the words. The Greek translators made a mistake.


Obviously, Jesus said "It's easier for a rope to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."


You may also recall language to Simon whose name was changed by Jesus to "Peter (which translated means rock)".

Translated from what?

ANSWER: Translated from Aramaic.

The Greek translator was putting that in the margin for the Greek readers.



There are hundred and hundreds of internal evidences to prove that Aramaic was the original language of the New Testament. I have a book containing these proofs, and all you need to do is read one or two of them and the verdict is immediate, such as words that were difficult to find a substitute for in Greek, and when you compare, you are impressed.

 

[dcontroversal]

Wrong.....and just because the Greek Orthodox Church implies something does not make it true.....Koine Greek is what the N.T. was written in with a few phrases in Aramaic!

 

[Todd_TruthSeeker]

Wrong.....and just because the Greek Orthodox Church implies something does not make it true.....Koine Greek is what the N.T. was written in with a few phrases in Aramaic!

Search the matter out.


Jesus was a Jew, the disciples were all Jews, their ministry was to the Jews, they were ordered to go to the lost sheep or Israel in the beginning, and all their writings would have been in their own language. They did not learn the language, especially how to write it, of the gentiles. In their minds, learning, or eating the unclean food of the gentiles (remember Peter!) was against their way.

But besides these obvious points, as you compare the Peshitta to what we received from the Greek translation, the internal evidence is there. Not to be disputed.

Look at the Aramaic example in the original post. Jesus did not say "camel". lol


And I never said anything about "Greek Orthodox"! Whoa... you are far from what this thread is about. Not even remotely close.

 

[dcontroversal]

Search the matter out.


Jesus was a Jew, the disciples were all Jews, their ministry was to the Jews, they were ordered to go to the lost sheep or Israel in the beginning, and all their writings would have been in their own language. They did not learn the language, especially how to write it, of the gentiles. In their minds, learning, or eating the unclean food of the gentiles (remember Peter!) was against their way.

But besides these obvious points, as you compare the Peshitta to what we received from the Greek translation, the internal evidence is there. Not to be disputed.

Look at the Aramaic example in the original post. Jesus did not say "camel". lol


And I never said anything about "Greek Orthodox"! Whoa... you are far from what this thread is about. Not even remotely close.

I have searched it out and the N.T. was written in Koine Greek.......which is a dead language and keeps the word written unchangeable!

 

[crossnote]

All the Archaeology finds of the earliest fragments are in Koine Greek.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

this is a very misinformed thread...

there is practically no evidence that any book of the new testament except perhaps the gospel of matthew ever had a hebrew or aramaic version predating the greek new testament...even in the case of matthew it can be pretty strongly demonstrated that the greek matthew we have today was not merely a translation from aramaic but instead an original composition in greek perhaps adapted from an earlier aramaic composition by the same author...

the new testament uses terminology that was well established and highly developed conceptually in greek but has no conceptual counterpart in the hebrew or aramaic languages...

the first century jews of judea and galilee did -not- shun everything greek...greek cultural influences or 'hellenization' had been present in jewish culture since shortly after the time of alexander the great and was already deeply rooted in first century jewish and early christian culture...to the point that some of the new testament writings contain clear allusions to greek philosophical concepts...such as john's theology of the logos or paul's references to the agnosto theo tradition and plato's allegory of the cave...as well as apparent allusions to the concept of the platonic 'world of forms' in the book of hebrews...

the apostles could have easily known greek as it was the language of business and commerce in the near eastern world at the time...even fisherman like peter and andrew and james and john would have had an advantage selling their fish in the market if they knew at least passable greek...and in fact many of the new testament writings show evidence that the authors were not formally educated in greek...

furthermore paul was from tarsus where the jewish community and pretty much everyone else spoke greek...

additionally most of the intended audience of the new testament were jews outside the holy land who would have mostly spoken greek...many jews outside of judea and galilee did not even know hebrew or aramaic well enough to follow a new testament account or letter written in those languages...

there is no extant text of the new testament in aramaic...the peshitta is -not- in aramaic...it is in syriac...written in a completely different non aramaic script that was not even used in new testament times...

i repeat...this is -not even aramaic writing-...aramaic writing looks closer to hebrew because the modern hebrew alphabet was derived from aramaic...this syriac script is actually the basis for arabic cursive...

moreover the majority of new testament textual scholars have concluded that the peshitta is a translation from greek...

to be very blunt the lamsa translation is promoted -dishonestly- when it is advertised as a translation from an 'aramaic original new testament'

the camel and rope comparison is totally anachronistic because the script in which the two words represent each other are syriac which as i mentioned already was not even in use until after new testament times...

now jesus likely -spoke- a lot of aramaic or hebrew during his earthly ministry...which accounts for the transliterated aramaic quotations in the new testament...but the books themselves were certainly written in greek...which is why the authors felt the need to provide the meaning of the transliterated phrases for the audience who was reading in greek...

 

[Mitspa]

This is so misleading...Jesus Himself lived and was raised about 3 miles from a Greek speaking town...There is no evidence nor any reason to believe the New testament was written in anything other than the Greek

 

[MarcR]

Title says it all. I think this is worthy of its own thread.

= = = = = =

The New Testament, including the book of Revelation, was not written in Greek, as is commonly taught in 98% of the seminaries around the world. Except for Luke, they were all Jews who, being raised in Jewish culture, abstained from anything Gentile. Perhaps they could speak a little Greek, or Latin, but they would never have learned to write it. They thought that anything gentile was to be stayed away from.

The New Testament was written in Aramaic, and the modern "Eastern Church" in Israel has always maintained this.

To read the New Testament Aramaic, converted to English, you need to look for "Peshitta" version, and I have a couple, and my favorite is the one translated by Lamsa.

There are lots of little gems to discover that give way to mistaken notions in "christianity" due to their reliance on the Greek, but for the most part, the Greek translation from Aramaic, has been very good.

I'll give an example, and you'll see how obvious this becomes, showing that the New Testament was originally in Aramaic.

EXAMPLE, from the Greek:

Matt 19:24 "Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

The Greek translators thought the Aramaic word they were translating into Greek was "camel".

Now, look at the actual Aramaic word from the original book of Matthew:


View attachment 129706



As you can see, the actual word Jesus spoke was "rope", not camel, but the writing of it in Aramaic resembles the word "camel". There is a very slight deviation between the words. The Greek translators made a mistake.


Obviously, Jesus said "It's easier for a rope to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."


You may also recall language to Simon whose name was changed by Jesus to "Peter (which translated means rock)".

Translated from what?

ANSWER: Translated from Aramaic.

The Greek translator was putting that in the margin for the Greek readers.



There are hundred and hundreds of internal evidences to prove that Aramaic was the original language of the New Testament. I have a book containing these proofs, and all you need to do is read one or two of them and the verdict is immediate, such as words that were difficult to find a substitute for in Greek, and when you compare, you are impressed.

There is no linguistic or historical evidence to support your theory.

In Matt 19:24
24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. KJV, the definite article is absent with both eye and needle.

There was a gate in the Jerusalem city wall which was named the Eye of the Needle. It was so close to the ground at the top that a camel could pass only on its knees and unburdened. The verse speaks of the difficulty of getting a wealthy person to recognize his need for assistance from God or anyone else.

The Peshita is a second century translation of the LXX from Greek into Syrian Aramaic; which also included several but not all NT books. It is certainly not evidence of a translation from Aramaic to Greek.

Also, Jerusalem Aramaic was considerably different from Syrian Aramaic in both orthography and in some cases denotation and or connotation.

 

[Todd_TruthSeeker]

There is no linguistic or historical evidence to support your theory.

In Matt 19:24
24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. KJV, the definite article is absent with both eye and needle.

There was a gate in the Jerusalem city wall which was named the Eye of the Needle. It was so close to the ground at the top that a camel could pass only on its knees and unburdened. The verse speaks of the difficulty of getting a wealthy person to recognize his need for assistance from God or anyone else.

The Peshita is a second century translation of the LXX from Greek into Syrian Aramaic; which also included several but not all NT books. It is certainly not evidence of a translation from Aramaic to Greek.

Also, Jerusalem Aramaic was considerably different from Syrian Aramaic in both orthography and in some cases denotation and or connotation.

No, the Jews spoke and wrote Hebrew/Aramaic.

But even Vine's Expository dictionary on the Greek, has this to say about the example that you refute, about the "eye of the needle":

Note: The idea of applying "the needle's eye" to small gates seems to be a modern one; there is no ancient trace of it. The Lord's object in the statement is to express human impossibility and there is no need to endeavor to soften the difficulty by taking the needle to mean anything more than the ordinary instrument. Mackie points out (Hastings' Bib. Dic.) that "an attempt is sometimes made to explain the words as a reference to the small door, a little over 2 feet square, in the large heavy gate of a walled city. This mars the figure without materially altering the meaning, and receives no justification from the language and traditions of Palestine." [Vine's Expository Dictionary of Greek]


Vine has that to say, which is just a little bit more proof about the error of calling the noun "camel", instead of what is obvious in the Aramaic which is "rope".

But here again, you ignore evidence. It always baffles me how people ignore evidence.

 

[MarcR]

No, the Jews spoke and wrote Hebrew/Aramaic.

But even Vine's Expository dictionary on the Greek, has this to say about the example that you refute, about the "eye of the needle":

Note: The idea of applying "the needle's eye" to small gates seems to be a modern one; there is no ancient trace of it. The Lord's object in the statement is to express human impossibility and there is no need to endeavor to soften the difficulty by taking the needle to mean anything more than the ordinary instrument. Mackie points out (Hastings' Bib. Dic.) that "an attempt is sometimes made to explain the words as a reference to the small door, a little over 2 feet square, in the large heavy gate of a walled city. This mars the figure without materially altering the meaning, and receives no justification from the language and traditions of Palestine." [Vine's Expository Dictionary of Greek]


Vine has that to say, which is just a little bit more proof about the error of calling the noun "camel", instead of what is obvious in the Aramaic which is "rope".

But here again, you ignore evidence. It always baffles me how people ignore evidence.

Both Dr. Emil Schurer in his 5 volume A History of the Jewish People in the Time of Jesus Christ (translated from the German by John MacPherson), and A Edersheim; both recognized for scholarship at least equal to that of Vine verify; and are likely sources of the idea, that there was indeed such a gate.


I don't use Vine's expository dictionary! I use Wilbur, Arndt, and Gingrich which I consider to be of superior scholarship.

 

[MarcR]

Both Dr. Emil Schurer in his 5 volume A History of the Jewish People in the Time of Jesus Christ (translated from the German by John MacPherson), and A Edersheim; both recognized for scholarship at least equal to that of Vine verify; and are likely sources of the idea, that there was indeed such a gate.


I don't use Vine's expository dictionary! I use Wilbur, Arndt, and Gingrich which I consider to be of superior scholarship.

CORRECTION: that should read Bauer, Arndt, and Gingrich ! I got distracted by my cat

 

[Angela53510]

Everyone in New Testament times spoke Greek. Esp. the Jews.

Why do you think the Hebrew OT was translated into Greek between 300-200 BC? Because the Hebrews had mostly lost their language. In fact, the reason the Masoretes put all the vowel points on the Hebrew text between 700 and 1000 AD, was because Jews had completely lost Hebrew and did not know how to pronounce the words anymore.

This whole Aramaic scam is another Hebrew Roots movement nonsense! God had the Bible written in Greek, because that was the lingua franca, so not only Jews but Gentiles could read the Bible in a language everyone knew.

 

[Angela53510]

CORRECTION: that should read Bauer, Arndt, and Gingrich ! I got distracted by my cat

So your cat's name must be Wilbur? LOL

PS. I use the same Lexicon!

 

[Todd_TruthSeeker]

Learn from the foremost authority on Jewish history of the 1st century, Josephus.

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All of the following from the introduction of the 7th edition NT Peshitta, by Glenn David Bauscher (p.4):


Why should anyone be interested in such a translation? The answers are manifold and I cannot address them all here. The most important reason is that the original Gospels (and Epistles as well) were written in Aramaic and later translated into Greek for Greek speaking Romans. Josephus addresses the language of the first century Israelites in his 1st century volumes of Jewish history. He wrote in Aramaic and translated his works into Greek later. He also testifies plainly that Greek was not the language of his Israeli countrymen (born AD 37 and died after AD 100) and that Greek was not spoken by the vast majority of Jews at that time.

Josephus provides almost all the historical information of first century Israel available today. Every serious student of the New Testament has consulted Josephus for background information on that time period in Israel.

Here is a statement from Josephus: "I have also taken a great deal of pains to obtain the learning of the Greeks, and to understand the elements of the Greek language, although I have so accustomed myself to speak our own tongue, that I cannot pronounce Greek with sufficient exactness. For our nation does not encourage those that learn the language of many nations. On this account, as there have been many who have done their endeavors, with great patience, to obtain the Greek learning, there have hardly been two or three who have succeeded herein, who were immediately rewarded for their pains." Antiquities XX, XI 2. (published circa A.D. 93)

Josephus, a learned Priest and Pharisee of his time, wrote that he did not know Greek well enough to speak it fluently; he knew a few who had learned it well. The main truth to be gleaned here is that Greek was not the language of Israel, nor a second language. It had to be studied deliberately to be learned, and it was apparently discouraged by the Jews.

In A.D. 77, Josephus wrote his Jewish Wars in Aramaic and later translated it into Greek for the Greek-speaking Roman citizens. Even his later Antiquities, quoted above, shows that Josephus was not fluent enough in Greek to compose several volumes in that language. The Jewish Rabbis of that time forbade the teaching of pagan tongues to their young men. They taught that it was preferable to feed one's son the flesh of swine than to teach him Greek. Josephus elsewhere wrote that he wrote his works "in the language of his country" and later "translated his history into Greek". This establishes that Greek was not the language of Israel.

 

[atwhatcost]

There is no linguistic or historical evidence to support your theory.

In Matt 19:24
24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. KJV, the definite article is absent with both eye and needle.

There was a gate in the Jerusalem city wall which was named the Eye of the Needle. It was so close to the ground at the top that a camel could pass only on its knees and unburdened. The verse speaks of the difficulty of getting a wealthy person to recognize his need for assistance from God or anyone else.

The Peshita is a second century translation of the LXX from Greek into Syrian Aramaic; which also included several but not all NT books. It is certainly not evidence of a translation from Aramaic to Greek.

Also, Jerusalem Aramaic was considerably different from Syrian Aramaic in both orthography and in some cases denotation and or connotation.

Whereas I too agree Todd is teaching inadequately, at best, I have to disagree with the Eye of the Needle Gate theory. I've believed it myself for most of my Christian life, but found out a couple of years ago it was just urban legend. (Old urban legend, but not old enough to be the truth.)

 

[crossnote]

CORRECTION: that should read Bauer, Arndt, and Gingrich ! I got distracted by my cat

Is your cat Aramaic or Hebrew?

 

[Tintin]

Rachel, Paul references Plato's Allegory of the Cave? I didn't know that! Where can I find this? Thanks.

 

[JGIG]

Ah, the continual dripping of those who seek to chip away at an established truth (in this case Greek Primacy of the NT).

Could parts of the NT have been written in Aramaic?

Yes; it seems logical that the letter to the Hebrews probably was written in Aramaic (a good teaching on some details about why this is likely can be found here: By His Stripes Or Ours).

Arguments could be made that the letters written to primarily Jewish audiences could have been penned in Aramaic, but historical evidence doesn't bear it out, as Koine Greek was the language of life in first century Israel and the rest of the Roman Empire (much to their chagrin - they had conquered the Greeks, but not their linguistic influence), for education, commerce, politics, and yes, even religion.

Jewish Scribes were translating the Hebrew Scriptures into Koine Greek over 300 years BEFORE Christ, which means there was a NEED amongst the Jews for a GREEK translation of the HEBREW Scriptures.

Why?

Because Koine Greek was the dominant language of life in those days.

All that and much more is addressed in this article.


-JGIG

 

[tanach]

Apart from the oldest examples of the NT being in Greek, many Gentile Christians spoke Greek not Hebrew or Aramaic. They also used the Greek translation of the OT which differs in places from the Hebrew version.

 

[Mitspa]

Lets see...God wanted to preserve the New Testament in Aramaic...but He was not able to do so? Makes perfect sense.

Instead we see a supernatural preservation of the Greek text from all over the known biblical world that support and establish the truth...but that was clearly not Gods intention? Because the Aramaic translates needle different than the Greek... Folks seem to be willing to believe anything?