[h=2][/h] unknown said
No, no one will make it to heaven. God did not promise any of us to go to heaven. If he did, please provide me the scripture where he said it.
First, here is the scriptural proof which demonstrates that at the time of death, the believers spirit/soul departs from the body and goes immediately to be in the presence of the Lord.
"Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. For we live by faith, not by sight. We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.
lol, you say Scriptural PROOF, yet the Scripture you give, does not PROVE that at all. For some reason, and i have told you this Truth before, but you reject it, you altogether ignore, or void, the word "Rather"
2Co 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
2Co 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
Please notice the words of the Inspired by God Scripture. i also am willing rather to be absent from this miserable pathetic body that i am in now, and to be present with the Lord. That does not mean what you teach, and even say this verse is PROOF, that when you die, you immediately go to Heaven or to Hell. You do error, not understanding the simple concept of the words "willing rather" i make $25 dollars an hour, i am willing rather to make $100 dollars an hour. Does that mean I WILL make $100 an hour, or is that something that i would rather make an hour? i am present in this pathetic body, but i am will rather to be present with Jesus Christ. Why is this concept so hard for you to grasp?
You use this verse as your PROOF that when a person dies they immediately are judged, to go to Heaven or to Hell, because Paul says he would rather be absent from the Body and present with the Lord. i am sure every person in Hell will also say the exact same thing, that they would RATHER be absent from Hell and present with the Lord in Heaven. Does that make it so? You say and teach that it does make it so. You teach because Paul said he would RATHER be absent from the body to be present with the Lord, Makes it a FACT that is what happens when you die. You do error, not knowing or understanding this topic. What you believe is contrary to Scriptures, and you use verses in SCRIPTURES as Proof to back up what you believe, and those verses don't PROVE that at all, it is in your mind only. i have twenty dollars on me, i would prefer to have $100.00
Even the version of the Bible that you quoted above, uses the word "prefer":
"Therefore we are always confident and know that
as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. For we live by faith, not by sight. We are confident, I say, and
would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.
Scriptures plainly teach that the Apostle Paul WOULD PREFER to be away from the body and to be with the Lord Jesus.
YOU teach He IS with Him. You do error, not understanding the Truth of Scriptures which teach they sleep, nor understand what it means when it say the dead shall rise first, they rise first because they have not gone anywhere yet, they are sleeping. But what do you say and teach, YOU teach that they rise when they die, go to Heaven/Hell then come back and get their filthy corrupt bodies again, so they can rise from the dead first. So then when they die, they are judged to either go to Heaven or to Hell. Then if their name is written in the Book of Life, they rise to be with Jesus in Heaven, then they come back down with Jesus, get back into their bodies, then at that time Jesus opens the Books and Judgement Day has arrived, and if there names are written in the Book of Life, they will rise from the Dead first. What then, they are judged TWICE? You do error in this thinking, nor will you listen to the TRUTH when it is presented to you, which Truth i testify comes from God. You do not deny what i say, you deny what God told me. But you will continue to hold on to a doctrine that is not backed up by Scriptures, then you get on others for doing the same exact same thing. How is that not Hypocrisy?
"If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body. "
The scriptures above state that at the time the believer dies, their spirit/soul goes to be in the presence of the Lord,
No it does NOT say that, that is what YOU say and teach, that is NOT what Scriptures teach. Scriptures plainly teach that the Apostle Paul would rather be absent from the Body and present with the Lord. That is what Scriptures PLAINLY teaches. YOU teach that he IS present with the Lord, which Scriptures does NOT teach.
which would be in heaven and that because Scripture states that he ascended to the right hand of God and makes intercession for all believers. And therefore, when we go to be in his presence, then that would have be in heaven. Now, the following is the promise of our going to heaven after the dead in Christ are resurrected and those who are still alive are changed into our glorified bodies:
Do you even hear what you are saying. You say and teach they are resurrected at the time of death, you say when a person dies, they immediately go to be with Jesus, then teach that they go to Heaven after the dead in Christ are resurrected. What then, you think the corrupt flesh is what is resurrected? Flesh and Blood will NOT nor ever will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. What is resurrected is the Dead in Christ, those spirits that are asleep, they rise first. When Jesus gets here that is when the Books are opened, that is when Judgement Day will determine who will go to Heaven and who will not go to Heaven, This happens on ONE DAY, when Jesus Returns, NOT when a person dies, like YOU teach. Scriptures does not teach when a person dies they immediately go to Heaven, that is YOUR doctrine, and it is not from God.
"Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God ; believe also in me. My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.
Wait, Are they not already with Him, as you teach? Do YOU not teach that when a person dies they immediately go to be with Jesus where He is at? Yes that is what you teach. But what does Jesus teach, that He will come back for them, when He RETURNS. But you teach they are already with Him when they die? What then, they are not Truly with Him unless they are back in their frail, miserable human flesh bodies? What then, it is only when they are united with their flesh bodies that they are then With HIM? But they are NOT with Him, when they die and be present with Him? Are you seriously confused? You teach that they are with Jesus when they die. This Inspired by God verse Plainly teaches they are not with Him, until He Returns. Are you now going to twist the Scriptures to somehow say it means their flesh. Know you not human flesh is evil, corrupt, wicked, and will never enter into Heaven, the flesh is a tool that satan uses for his gains, to tempt us, but you teach we come back to get our flesh back.
You do not understand what the Glorified body is. Let us assume for a minute that when a person dies they do immediately go to Heaven as you say they do, tell me, what body are they in? Do you think they are ghosts, spirits floating around with no body at all? Is that what you think. waiting to be reunited with their flesh that is turning to dust and being ate by worms on the Earth? You do not understand, that as soon as a spirit rises, they will then receive their Glorified Bodies. So even if they did rise at the time of death, they would at that time receive their Glorified Bodies to live in Heaven with Jesus. But i understand what you teach though in order to make your doctrine FIT. They rise as spirits, then come back to get their bodies when Jesus Returns, and then it is at that time they get their Bodies BACK, and since it will then be immortal, that is their Glorified Body. You do error not understanding the Truth.
Jesus plainly teaches that it is when He Returns that we will be with Him. You teach we are with Him at the time of death. And i also noticed every time you say when a person dies they immediately go to Heaven, but altogether FAIL to mention the unsaved will go to Hell at that time? Why is that? Because Scriptures teach it is at the end of the 1,000 years is when people are thrown in to Hell. Therefore they can't possibly be thrown into Hell at the time of death, that is why you never mention that at the time of Death a person can go to Hell, but you sure will teach that at the time of death they will go to Heaven to be with Jesus.
People believe Jesus which plainly teaches He is going to prepare a place for us, and when He Returns is when we will be with HIM, NOT before that time, as some will falsely teach, based on their own doctrine and NOT what Scriptures teach.
So, according to the scripture above, Jesus told his disciples and all believers, that he was going back to the Father's house to prepare a place for all believers. I'm sure that you would agree that the "Father's house" would be without a doubt, in heaven.
It is in Heaven, UNTIL Jesus Returns to the Earth with the Fathers House with Him.
Therefore, since Jesus said he was going to prepare a place for us there, then when he comes, he will gather us and take us back to the Father's house so that we may be where Jesus is. This event of him coming to gather us can be found in 1 Cor.15:51-53 and 1 Thes.4:13-18.
The problem is you do not understand Scriptures. The Fathers House will no longer be in Heaven, but on Earth. If you would have understood this Scripture: You would have known that.
Rev_21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Where? WITH MEN, not Saints, but men on the Earth. The Father and Jesus will be inside the New City Jerusalem. This is the PLACE which Jesus is creating in Heaven right now, for us Saints to live in with Him, when He returns to the Earth to reign over all the nations of the Earth, this is when He will set up His Kingdom on the Earth, this is when the the dead sleeping in Christ will rise first then the living, This is when the Saints will reign with Him for a thousand Years ON EARTH.
Rev_5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Rev_11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev_20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev_22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
Believe Scriptures not what men of this generation teach. We do not rise at the time of death, only to rise again when Judgement Day happens when Jesus Gets here with the Holy City, when the Tabernacle of God will be with men on Earth.
Believe what Scriptures Teach, NOT what men teach.
^i^
