The Presence

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Jan 7, 2015
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#1
After Adam and Eve had sinned it is written in Genesis 3:8 “And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden.”
A couple of things I want you to notice in this verse above, first notice it was the voice of the Lord God walking, and also notice we are told they hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God. Hopefully this will make more sense when I show you a few other verses of scripture.


Now notice after Cain had
sinned he said he would be hid from the face of the Lord in Genesis 4:14, and then we read in
Genesis 4:16 “And Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.” Both words used, in the face (H6440) of the Lord is also the same word used as in the presence (H6440) of the Lord, which can also be shown as countenance. But notice it is written in John 1:18No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.”

Jesus said in
John 6:46Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.” Jesus also said if you have seen me then you have seen the Father. Just as Jesus also said in Luke 10:22 “All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.” Jesus also told his disciples that the world would see Him no more, but that they would see Him. And those who can receive this saying will also understand, and will know this only happens when God the Father first reveals His Son in you by way of His Spirit.

And so by His Spirit not only do we feel the presence of His glory, but we also see His Son; as Jesus said in
John 14:19 “Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me:” Many will struggle with this saying, as they also struggle with understanding many of the spiritual things of God because they are yet of the world, and are yet carnal.

The reason the
world cannot see Him, and why the world cannot receive the Spirit of Truth is because there is another spirit and presence working in them, which is the spirit of a lie referred to as “it” in many places of scripture. Jesus said of the Spirit of Truth in
John 14:17 “Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwells with you, and shall be in you.”

This
spirit who is in the world, is also the same spirit at work in the firstborn man of sin, who is flesh, and is also carnally minded. These are those, because of sin, are also hid from the presence of the Lord.

It is written in Isaiah 59:2 “But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.” Just as that sin nature working in the natural man is the red “mark” of the natural brute beast.

This
first born nature of sin is shown many times in scripture in the first born sons like in Cain, Esau, and Ishmael. Pay close attention to the wording here describing Ishmael, and the presence in
Genesis 16:12 “And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.” This is speaking of the spirit, and nature of the firstborn working in all his brethren, or seed. That reminds me of what Jesus said in Matthew 18:20 “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.”

Paul understood this mystery of the first man being
earthy, flesh and carnally minded which is also shown in the allegory he gave of the 2 sons of Abraham, Ishmael and Isaac. Just as it was said of Jacob and Esau, two manner of people would come forth of them. This also shows the enmity between the 2 spiritual seeds from the beginning, the first being flesh, verses those who were of the seed of promise being born of the Holy Spirit.


So as those who are of God are transformed into the image of His Son by the renewing of their mind by His Holy Spirit, and are “marked” or sealed by that same Spirit of Promise. The same, but opposite “
mark” can be said of those who are still in living in sin, and are of their father the Devil, and are in his presence and of his spirit, which is the same spirit of this evil world.

But those who are of God’s Spirit would flee from sin and evil, and depart from the presence of the serpent as shown in the woman in Revelation 12:14 who would flee “from the face of the serpent.”

So if your
iniquities have separated you from God, and your sins cause his face to be hid from you as is written in
Isaiah 59:2, then this next verse is some real good solid advice.

Acts 3:19-20 “Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. [SUP]20 [/SUP]And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you.”
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
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#2
Oh look, another hypocrite.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#3
6 words short of a thousand is a bit too long for any post, and too much for me to read this morning.
 
Sep 6, 2014
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#4
Psalm 141:2-3
2Let my prayer be counted as incense before you,
and the lifting up of my hands as the evening sacrifice!
3Set a guard, O Lord, over my mouth;
keep watch over the door of my lips!

Proverbs 18:1-2
1Whoever isolates himself seeks his own desire;
he breaks out against all sound judgment.
2A fool takes no pleasure in understanding,
but only in expressing his opinion.

Praying for you Mark :)
 
Feb 1, 2015
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#6
It's been way too long since I felt the presence of the Lord.
 

Yet

Banned
Jan 4, 2014
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#7
I'm doing my walks every day and praying. Today His anointing touched me and it was like a river flowing out as I prayed and also praying in tongues. Thank you Lord!
 
Feb 1, 2015
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#8
I'm doing my walks every day and praying. Today His anointing touched me and it was like a river flowing out as I prayed and also praying in tongues. Thank you Lord!
In the 70s, I was driving and was suddenly overcome with emotions with tongues, so I pull over in front of a business due to I couldn't drive safely at that point. Then a police cruiser pulls up and I was afraid that I would speak in tongues and he would hear me. He said that the business section had some robberies thus he approached me with that in mind.

Another time, I was walking in this gas pipeline cleared path, trying to find God in nation (this was earlier before I was saved), when I came out A police car was behind mine, I got so angry at the officer. He asked what was that in my car, it was a small branch, he may have though it was weed, then I chewed him out, I said, It's a piece of nature and if you think that is weird I have a Bible on my front seat.
 
Jan 7, 2015
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#9
Numbers 6:22-27 "And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,[SUP]23 [/SUP]Speak unto Aaron and unto his sons, saying, On this wise ye shall bless the children of Israel, saying unto them,
[SUP]24 [/SUP]The Lord bless thee, and keep thee:
[SUP]25 [/SUP]The Lord make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
[SUP]26 [/SUP]The Lord lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

[SUP]27 [/SUP]And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel, and I will bless them."


Psalm 31:16
Make thy face to shine upon thy servant: save me for thy mercies' sake.

Psalm 67:1
God be merciful unto us, and bless us; and cause his face to shine upon us; Selah.

Psalm 80:3
Turn us again, O God, and cause thy face to shine; and we shall be saved.

Psalm 80:7
Turn us again, O God of hosts, and cause thy face to shine; and we shall be saved.

Psalm 80:19
Turn us again, O Lord God of hosts, cause thy face to shine; and we shall be saved.

Psalm 119:135
Make thy face to shine upon thy servant; and teach me thy statutes.


Daniel 9:17
Now therefore, O our God, hear the prayer of thy servant, and his supplications, and cause thy face to shine upon thy sanctuary that is desolate, for the Lord's sake.

Matthew 17:2
And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

2 Corinthians 4:6
For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. :)
 

DiscipleDave

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2012
3,095
69
48
#10
After Adam and Eve had sinned it is written in Genesis 3:8 “And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden.”
A couple of things I want you to notice in this verse above, first notice it was the voice of the Lord God walking, and also notice we are told they hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God. Hopefully this will make more sense when I show you a few other verses of scripture.


Jesus (God) actually walked in the Garden with Adam and Eve. Jesus was Flesh just like them. Jesus (The Lord they God) walked with Adam and Eve.


Now notice after Cain had
sinned he said he would be hid from the face of the Lord in Genesis 4:14, and then we read in
Genesis 4:16 “And Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.” Both words used, in the face (H6440) of the Lord is also the same word used as in the presence (H6440) of the Lord, which can also be shown as countenance. But notice it is written in John 1:18No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.”


Jesus walked in the Garden, He did not walk outside of the Garden. Cain was expelled from the Garden, and knew he would not see Jesus in the Garden any more. No man has seen God at any time, this is True speaking of God the Father, not of God the Son. We have seen Jesus the Son of God, no man has seen the Father at ANY time, we have seen Jesus though. Jesus (God) created the Earth, (not the Father) The Father did not create humankind, He did not create the Earth, Jesus created the Earth, the universe, and humankind. we have seen Jesus, no man has ever seen the Father which is up in Heaven. Now the Son of God, Jesus Christ created all things that were made, humans, Earth, etc..... Jesus walked in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve. When God spoke in the old Testament, it was always Jesus speaking. Jesus is the Lord thy God. Moses never heard the voice of the Father at any time, Moses only heard the voice of Jesus, which He rightly called God.


Jesus is NOT the Father. Scriptural proof found by clicking HERE.

Responding to OP
 
Feb 1, 2015
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#11
"Jesus is NOT the father"

Many, many people don't believe he is, that's a given.
 
Jan 7, 2015
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#12
The Father did not create humankind, He did not create the Earth, Jesus created the Earth, the universe, and humankind. we have seen Jesus, no man has ever seen the Father which is up in Heaven. Now the Son of God, Jesus Christ created all things that were made, humans, Earth, etc..... When God spoke in the old Testament, it was always Jesus speaking. Jesus is the Lord thy God. Moses never heard the voice of the Father at any time, Moses only heard the voice of Jesus, which He rightly called God.
God the Father did create all things by His Word, as Jesus Christ is the very Word of God. Jesus confessed his words were not his own, but the Fathers. So how did God create all things? God said let there be.........and it was so.


So in saying it was not God the Fathers voice, or words spoken would be in error, for Jesus Christ is the very Word of God. As God the Father created all things by His Word Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 3:9
And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
 
Feb 1, 2015
1,198
15
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#13
Jesus (God) actually walked in the Garden with Adam and Eve. Jesus was Flesh just like them. Jesus (The Lord they God) walked with Adam and Eve.[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT]



Jesus walked in the Garden, He did not walk outside of the Garden. Cain was expelled from the Garden, and knew he would not see Jesus in the Garden any more. No man has seen God at any time, this is True speaking of God the Father, not of God the Son. We have seen Jesus the Son of God, no man has seen the Father at ANY time, we have seen Jesus though. Jesus (God) created the Earth, (not the Father) The Father did not create humankind, He did not create the Earth, Jesus created the Earth, the universe, and humankind. we have seen Jesus, no man has ever seen the Father which is up in Heaven. Now the Son of God, Jesus Christ created all things that were made, humans, Earth, etc..... Jesus walked in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve. When God spoke in the old Testament, it was always Jesus speaking. Jesus is the Lord thy God. Moses never heard the voice of the Father at any time, Moses only heard the voice of Jesus, which He rightly called God.


Jesus is NOT the Father. Scriptural proof found by clicking HERE.

Responding to OP
Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Jesus only took on flesh when he was born in the stable. I think that we are going to have problems with you.
 
Nov 14, 2012
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#14
In the 70s, I was driving and was suddenly overcome with emotions with tongues, so I pull over in front of a business due to I couldn't drive safely at that point. Then a police cruiser pulls up and I was afraid that I would speak in tongues and he would hear me. He said that the business section had some robberies thus he approached me with that in mind.

Another time, I was walking in this gas pipeline cleared path, trying to find God in nation (this was earlier before I was saved), when I came out A police car was behind mine, I got so angry at the officer. He asked what was that in my car, it was a small branch, he may have though it was weed, then I chewed him out, I said, It's a piece of nature and if you think that is weird I have a Bible on my front seat.
not very smart mouthing off to cops. Here that's a ride to jail
 
Jan 7, 2015
6,057
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#15
1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

I think it just got a little brighter in here. :)
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,040
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New Zealand
#17
1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

I think it just got a little brighter in here. :)
And yet :

1Jn_1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Contradiction? No.

both verses are dependent on what context they are in.
 
Jan 7, 2015
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#18
And yet :

1Jn_1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Contradiction? No.

both verses are dependent on what context they are in.
It's not a contradiction when you understand there are past sins (for all have sinned) and a present state of being in Christ (whosoever abides in him sins not) if one is truly in Christ.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,[SUP]10 [/SUP]Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

Such were some of you shows past tense sinners. But make no mistake and be not deceived, you cannot abide in Christ and abide in sin at the same time. Whosoever says such is a liar, because you cannot make Christ (in you) a sinner.
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,040
1,027
113
New Zealand
#19
It's not a contradiction when you understand there are past sins (for all have sinned) and a present state of being in Christ (whosoever abides in him sins not) if one is truly in Christ.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,[SUP]10 [/SUP]Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

Such were some of you shows past tense sinners. But make no mistake and be not deceived, you cannot abide in Christ and abide in sin at the same time. Whosoever says such is a liar, because you cannot make Christ (in you) a sinner.

Okay so here it gets a bit deeper into it... .. in the context of the abide not.. and sin not.. its continual disobedience.. continual sin.

So saved people do sin.. because they are not perfect.. because they are human. They still have the battle against the flesh going on.

They are admonished though not to abide in CONTINUAL sin.. and rely on the Holy Spirit.

Paul talked about not doing what he should.. David committed adultery and murder.. Peter denied Christ 3 times etc etc...
This is the fleshly nature battling against the Holy Spirit who had indwelled them.

Now.. thankfully.. the Holy Spirit has won the battle by the indwelling. The trouble is our own imperfect experience. So we rely on the Holy Spirit to empower us.

'be perfect' in the bible is about going on to maturity.. going on to take the meat of the Word and not just the milk.

No new christian is mature straight away. It takes time.

The english meaning of the word perfect as 'unblemished' or 'sinless' does not match the bible equivalent of perfect.. where the Greek behind the word in the NT is about maturity, completeness.

Perfect in the sense of something being finished.. completed.. mature.

The English meaning as 'unblemished' and 'sinless' matches only God.
 
Jan 7, 2015
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#20
Okay so here it gets a bit deeper into it... .. in the context of the abide not.. and sin not.. its continual disobedience.. continual sin.

They still have the battle against the flesh going on.

They are admonished though not to abide in CONTINUAL sin.. and rely on the Holy Spirit.


This is the fleshly nature battling against the Holy Spirit who had indwelled them.
When you are truly born again of the Holy Spirit and made a new creature in Christ, you are no longer in the flesh, or serving the lusts of the flesh. And when you are truly abiding in Christ, you will no longer will live in continual sin because you have been set free from the bondage of sin. If you are sinning then you are still in the flesh, and still in bondage to sin. And in that case you prove your own self to be reprobate because you cannot abide in sin and also abide in Christ at the same time.

The old man of sin must die, the flesh and the deeds of the body which are sinful must be put to death, and you must put on Christ by the new birth from above by way God's Spirit.

Romans 13:14
But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.