sinless perfectionism

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prodigal

Guest
#2
[video=youtube;FRGNGVe9Ojc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRGNGVe9Ojc&index=1&list=PL950D0CAFE2099E2 5[/video]//////
 
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prodigal

Guest
#3
Romans 7:15-201599 Geneva Bible (GNV)

15 [a]For I [b]allow not that which I do: for what I [c]would, that do I not: but what I hate, that do I.
16 If I do then that which I would not, I consent to the Law, that it is good.
17 Now then, it is no more I, that do it, but [d]sin that dwelleth in me.
18 [e]For I know, that in me, that is, in my flesh, dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me: but I find [f]no means to perform that which is good,
19 For I do not the good thing, which I would, but the evil, which I would not, that do I.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but the sin that dwelleth in me.

but if your in the sinless brigade your change do' to dids .. lol
Romans 7:15-201599 Geneva Bible (GNV)

15 [a]For I [b]allow not that which I did: for what I [c]would, that did I not: but what I hate, that did I.
16 If I did then that which I would not, I consent to the Law, that it is good.
17 Now then, it is no more I, that did it, but [d]sin that dwelleth in me.
18 [e]For I know, that in me, that is, in my flesh, dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me: but I find [f]no means to perform that which is good,
19 For I did not the good thing, which I would, but the evil, which I would not, that did I.
20 Now if I did that I would not, it is no more I that did it, but the sin that dwelleth in me.


think i'll stick with the original version

 
Nov 26, 2011
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#4
Sinless perfectionism is really a misnomer and a means of misdirection and confusion.


The perfection Jesus spoke of, which God requires, is simply perfection in motive which flows from a pure heart wrought through the love of God and the love of our neighbour.

Thus the standard of God is simply that we not only do not commit adultery and murder outwardly, but that we also do not lust or hate in our hearts.

Paul described such a concept as...

1Ti 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

The standard God requires is simply...

1. Love out of a pure heart (ie. heart purity).
2. A good conscience (ie. pure motive).
3. Faith unfeigned (serving God from the heart with no hidden ulterior motive).

The simplicity of of the Gospel is Jesus Christ IN us whereby we WALK according to the Spirit of God whereby we love God and our neighbour, wherefore the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us. Hence we are not saved by any outward work but rather we have been saved via an inward transformation wrought by the power of God within our hearts.
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#5
Romans chapter 7:14-25 is simply Paul describing that inward transformation cannot be wrought through a mere mental assent or outward yielding to rules and regulations. The wretch of Romans 7 is the description of an individual who knows the law, recognises the good of the law, yet finds no release from the bondage of sin through that law. The release from such a predicament is through the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ (Rom 8:2) through which we are set free from the law of sin and death (ie. the rebellion to God ceases) and the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in our hearts (Rom 8:4) hence we are made the righteousness of God in Him (2Cor 5:21) if we are truly born again of the Spirit of God unto newness of life where old things have passed away.
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#6
Jesus really summed such things up in these words...

Joh 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Joh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
Joh 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

Salvation is wrought through abiding in the vine whereby the power of God literally flows through those whom abide.

Another way of describing this would be to liken ourselves to a light globe which must be screwed into the power source in order to shine. A light globe simply cannot shine apart from a necessary power source. Faith is where we plug ourselves in and grace is the power itself. Thus we are saved by grace through faith, we are saved via abiding in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ.

In order to be saved an individual must lay aside all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness (ie. rebellion to God, knowingly doing evil) and receive the implanted word (which cleans the soul) within. Thus true life (the kingdom of God within) is the result of hearing and doing just as Jesus taught.

Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#7
The great deception of modern theology is the teaching that "salvation" is not directly connected to a "total heart transformation." Under this subtle deception people can be convinced that they can be "saved" and yet still "rebellious."

The "means" of salvation is thus easily reduced to a dogmatic mechanism of "confess and trust" from when any true transformation is viewed as a FUTURE EVENT which people then wait upon to take place. Thus in the MEANTIME the "bondage to sin" can continue for the perception is that there exists a CLOAK FOR SIN. Hence grace is twisted into a license for ongoing inward wickedness.

Very few today will contend for the direct teachings of Jesus Christ, teachings that include...

1. Hear and Do.
2. Pick up our cross.
3. Die in order to live.
4. Put hand to the plow and do not turn back.
5. Count the cost (for the pearl of great price will cost one everything).
6. Strive to enter in at the strait gate.

All those things are glossed over as being "subsequent" to salvation and thus they are viewed as something optional or something that may or may not occur in the future. Thus there is no mandate to DO what Jesus said people must DO. People are deceived into thinking that mental assent and mental trust somehow enters them into a cloaked state of their sins being covered whilst they continue in rebellion to God (for there is no love out of a pure heart, good conscience, or faith unfeigned.
 
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prodigal

Guest
#8
did you watch the video,mmm
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#9
did you watch the video,mmm
No I didn't.

I was commenting on the term "sinless perfection."

One of the most effective means to deceive people is through the subtle use of language in order to foster a controlled paradigm of thinking.

In other words, one of the most efficient ways to deceive an individual is to construct a false framework within which one can dialogue/think.

Paul understood this for he gave the warning...

1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
1Ti 6:21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith...

Paul warned Timothy to avoid profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called.

In other words Paul was aware that one could be caught up in wicked and vain discussions, discussions from which there was no benefit. Paul was also aware of the concept of a false framework of thought and he termed it "oppositions of science falsely so called." The word "science" is Gnosis in the Greek and it means KNOWLEDGE, thus Paul was warning of OPPOSITIONS OF FALSE KNOWLEDGE, ie. two opposing notions of knowledge which are both false.

It is better to stick with the plain teachings of Jesus Christ and thus avoid any oppositions of science falsely so called. "Sinless Perfectionism" is a term not found in the Bible, a term not implied in the Bible, a term invented within the framework of vain theological debate.

The plain and simple teachings of Jesus cut to the root of theological error.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,780
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#10
[video=youtube;FRGNGVe9Ojc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRGNGVe9Ojc&index=1&list=PL950D0CAFE2099E2 5[/video]//////

So, has this guy been into the BDF? He kept talking about "they" and "he." Hard to believe there are more of these heretics out there. I thought they were only attracted to internet sites where they could remain anonymous!
 
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prodigal

Guest
#11
yep i just listened to 10 minutes of Mike DeSario as advertised on your profile and atleast i know where your coming from now. so your here just to give your correct point of view, obviously everyone else is wrong going by your mike desario, since augustine in fact,



i am not a novice to study and debate and your comments such as,'
It is better to stick with the plain teachings of Jesus Christ,' to push your own point of views, show me exactly the fruit given at this moment and it aint humility. i therefore will not carry on this conversation with yourself.. for others interested, i would always advise to study and form your own conclusion and not follow another mans conclusion just cos he made some videos and wrote a book or 2..
 
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Nov 26, 2011
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#12
yep i just listened to 10 minutes of Mike DeSario as advertised on your profile and atleast i know where your coming from now. so your here just to give your correct point of view, obviously everyone else is wrong going by your mike desario, since augustine in fact,



i am not a novice to study and debate and your comments such as,'
It is better to stick with the plain teachings of Jesus Christ,' to push your own point of views, show me exactly the fruit given at this moment and it aint humility. i therefore will not carry on this conversation with yourself.. for others interested, i would always advise to study and form your own conclusion and not follow another mans conclusion just cos he made some videos and wrote a book or 2..
What specifically have I said that you have issue with?

In this thread I commented on the notion of "oppositions of science so called," a warning given by Paul to Timothy. I also made reference to some of the teachings of Jesus Christ and I asserted that it is important that we take heed of the words of Jesus.

Instead of responding to anything I wrote you refer to Mike Desario in a very vague manner and also refer to me "pushing my views."

If you have an issue with me then please be specific so we can have a discussion. Otherwise it appears you are just making an objection without substance.
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#13
I have Mike linked in my profile because many of his lectures are very good and they cut to the root of many of the errors we are faced with today.

I do not speak on behalf of Mike DeSario and he does not speak on behalf of me.

I quote primary sources (like the Bible verses above) and I speak in my own words. If you have an issue then be specific with your issue prodigal.
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#14
In fact I just removed Mike's website from my profile and replaced it with my own blog (I had not looked at my profile in a long time).

The Pearl of Great Price
The Pearl of Great Price
 
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prodigal

Guest
#15
the objection is what is the point of debating anything with someone that makes comments as,'It is better to stick with the plain teachings of Jesus Christ, which suggests that i dont and you do from the start, at thats the point.... i'm done.
 
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slave

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2015
6,307
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#18
Prodigal, this video starts out from the onset, of using humor to cover slander. The dumb silly righteous guy approach. If a so-called Christian would do that silly humor slander with a known satan worshipper I would not agree with it nor does Scripture. Why? because it is not a love response-period. The point behind a spirit of such foundations then is not worthy of my time- even if he says a truth or two in it. For eventually the whole of the truth is never seen. It is not that a Christian is always picking at the details of someone, but when you show a video claiming Christ in it....be prepared for Gods criteria to support it or deny it.

You weren't asking if this is godly or not you set this up to be the truth. Now , God is obligated to answer you.
 
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prodigal

Guest
#19
lol if anyone watched the vid they'd see the 2 people were actually the same person, many perfectionist do actually believe they never sin, that they are incapable of sinning. now this goes against what most people believe the scripture to say. the very few sinless that come into chat read scripture differently because there base assumptions are different, i.e where paul says he is the chief of sinners, that will always be delegated to the past , whereas others see his condition as so close to god that his sin was so apparent to him, see 2 totally different messages. when paul says why do i do the things i know i ought not to do, to some it shows paul still was alive and therefore had his flesh to deal with crucifying it daily but to others this was all in the past and paul floats along completely sinless now. we got where paul rebukes peter, peter was in sin but we never hear he was ever unsaved. it is called a heretical teaching and has been for some time for good reason. the earliest i can find on it is the early misquoted teaching of wesley and after studying his sermons you can see he never said sinless perfection was possible but it was possible excluding sins of omission and unrevealed sin.. maybe a good question would be to ask if they're perfect in humility too cos the 2 ideas seem to conflict, if a humble person went round telling everyone how humble they were, well i think most would question it wondering wouldn't the most humble person be the last person to see it cos promoting their own strengths you'd think would be the last thing on their mind..
 
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prodigal

Guest
#20
Prodigal, this video starts out from the onset, of using humor to cover slander. The dumb silly righteous guy approach. If a so-called Christian would do that silly humor slander with a known satan worshipper I would not agree with it nor does Scripture. Why? because it is not a love response-period. The point behind a spirit of such foundations then is not worthy of my time- even if he says a truth or two in it. For eventually the whole of the truth is never seen. It is not that a Christian is always picking at the details of someone, but when you show a video claiming Christ in it....be prepared for Gods criteria to support it or deny it.

You weren't asking if this is godly or not you set this up to be the truth. Now , God is obligated to answer you.
have you seen the damage this heresy does to those struggling in many areas, being told their not true christian, that's includes the people struggling with addiction however well there doing, anybody who worries about anything even if they are improving in god's time, anyone who gets any type of depression medical or otherwise, all this heresy does is let the few tell the many how perfect they are and how far short everyone else is.