Nicolaitanes philosophy of “systematic distortion” and negation of scripture.

[LT]

The etymological connection between Saint Nicolas (Santa) and the Nicolaitans is very interesting,
but to accept the connection as being doctrinally significant, or an important clue in a satanic conspiracy... is just going too far.

Rejecting Christmas celebration is not what the book of Revelation was referring to.
According to the early Church Fathers, it was about sexual immorality.

 

[presidente]

It's worse than that., Nico: to conquer. Laitan:laity. Clerical/laity. One 'lording it over His heritage'.

Diotrephes lifted himself self up above the brethren.

Matt.20 Jesus told His own not to follow the world's type of exalted authority. He hates it. The 'church' loves it.

'My people perish for a lack of knowledge'.

Folk etymology interpretations are questionable at best. Phineas was the zealous man of the descendants of Aaron with whom God made a covenant. But his name means 'snake's mouth'. Should we reinterpret the passage to make him out to be a bad guy because of that?

Nicolaitan may etymologically refer to conquering the people. But if there is some kind of spiritual meaning behind the etymology, could it be that their false doctrine conquered the people?

The earliest tradition I know of what this refers to is recorded in Eusebius' Ecclesiastical History, which quotes and summarizes lots of earlier writings. One tradition is that Nicolas, one of the seven in Jerusalem, spoke of 'abusing the flesh' in his teaching against sin. And that on one occasion, he was accused of jealousy, and to prove that he wasn't, offered his wife to anyone present. No one took him up on it. But somehow a sect of libertines named themselves after him. Supposedly, they believed that one was allowed to commit sexual immorality. The word 'likewise' connects the Nicolaitans with similar doctrine in the passage. I think it is more likely that the actual facts were more along the lines of their being a group that taught licentiousness than a group that taught the need for a monarhical bishop or a senior pastor instead of a plurality of elders.

I believe in a plurality of elders. I know this idea of Nicolaitans being all about hierarchy is popular with some house church people. It can be found in the Brethren movement in Darby's writings and Watchman Nee's writings. But I don't think there is any real substance to the claim.

I tried to track down where the idea came from. I found some older book. I think it was Eureka, a Christodelphian book, that argued this case. But it argued the case better than anything I'd read from the Brethren movement or later writings.

There is plenty of other scripture about the way church is to be organized without having to make obscure unlikely arguments from etymology.

 

[just-us-2]

All the historical accounts of the "teachings of the Nicolaitans" point to laciviousness.
None of them point to the Judaizers.

Both are errors.
Just because this one portion of Scripture points out the heresies of those who preach Grace as a license to sin,
does not mean that it corroborates the teachings of those who would place themselves back under the Old Covenant.

Why did this discussion devolve into a debate over the purpose of the Law in the NT Church?

Yes, they are both errors!

It devolves into a debate over the purpose of the Law in the NT Church because some people who belong to cc still want to practice a Nicolaitan doctrine and when not everyone goes along with what they want, they have to show us all how intelligent (not!) they are by causing enough chaos to make the rest of us look foolish.

 

[Elin]

You are correct in that the Deacon Nicholas, in reality, cannot be equated with "Santa Claus." That's what I explained in my post.


Nevertheless it will be explained even further, as we unravel the truth about this false religion, as to how distortions of scripture are part of the doctrine of the Nicholaitanes. Christmas is not celebrated in Biblical history, for there is no record in scripture that says when Christ Jesus was actually born. It's all conjecture, and Baal's birthday is celebrated according to Pope Gregory's calendar (December 25th that is documented) that is far from the comparison with God's times and seasons.

The Doctrine of the Nicholaitanes habitually incorporates pagan practices into the Christian church.

Baloney. . .assertion without demonstration is without merit.

Asserting paganism within Christianity is a false doctrine designed by the heretical JW cult to show the corruption of the NT and, therefore, the necessary precedence of the OT.

It's a relentless doctrine that Jesus hates.

Indeed it is, that you would accuse Jesus' own church, which he bought with his own blood, as now being paganistic staggers the mind, as though God is not able to keep his own.

Anathema!

 

[LT]

The breakdown of the Greek and Hebrew behind the names 'Nicolas', 'Nicolai', and 'Balaam' is very thought provoking.

I found it interesting that the error of Balaam and the doctrines of the Nicolaitans are actually separated, as two separate issues, in Rev 2.
They are perhaps not the same error, but as the context of the verse implies,
two different teachings, with similar need of rejection by Believers.

 

[Elin]

The “doctrine of Balaam,” that endeavors to incorporate pagan practices into the churches, and pass them off as Christian doctrine and tradition, appears to this day to be enabled by the “doctrine of the Nicolaitanes.” It eventually will evolve into a doctrine that hates and despises the real truth by picking and choosing what pieces of scripture they will accept or avoid, labeling certain rejected scriptures as “void” or “abolished."

Like the clear wording of Eph 2:15?

"by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations"

Your agenda screams the false doctrine of the heretical JW cult.

They use the name of Jesus as the scapegoat, in the same way they used the good reputation of Nicolas. One good example is that Jesus crucified the law.

You are so confused. . .and full of false doctrine.

The law wasn't crucified, its list of grievances against us invoking its curse was crucified.

That is why those who esteem the law as good for believers in Christ today are negatively labeled as “Judaizers.”

Yes, those who deny the words of the Son spoken in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) by the NT writers in Eph 2:15 are what Paul called Judaizing--living like a Jew (Gal 3:14).

 

[just-me]

All the historical accounts of the "teachings of the Nicolaitans" point to laciviousness.
None of them point to the Judaizers.

Both are errors.
Just because this one portion of Scripture points out the heresies of those who preach Grace as a license to sin,
does not mean that it corroborates the teachings of those who would place themselves back under the Old Covenant.

Why did this discussion devolve into a debate over the purpose of the Law in the NT Church?

The debates and arguments begin with those who demand parts of scripture to be deleted. This may be a revelation (in part) of the big picture in relation to a doctrine that the Bible says Jesus hates, and a confirmation that the doctrine of the nicolaitanes continues to flourish even today.
Rejecting any part of God's word is heresy. You make a very good point.

The etymological connection between Saint Nicolas (Santa) and the Nicolaitans is very interesting,
but to accept the connection as being doctrinally significant, or an important clue in a satanic conspiracy... is just going too far.

Rejecting Christmas celebration is not what the book of Revelation was referring to.
According to the early Church Fathers, it was about sexual immorality.

If it isn't in the Bible, it isn't of God. I have never even read in other books that were banned from the Bible that endorsed a holiday of that sort. Point being, if the instructions to celebrate a certain day for a certain reason are considered as Christians beliefs, yet are not written in the word of God, then it didn't come from Him. Not only will people neglect what God offered to us to celebrate as a holy day (holiday) we will be observing things outside of the spectrum that God intended. Doctrines that Jesus hates are those doctrines that are man made so that God's Holy days will be neglected. That's what the "doctrine of the Nicolaitanes" is cited for doing. If the deceiver wants God's word to be void in the church, then whatever truth has been made void needs to be replaced by something else that isn't from God. December 25th isn't a God ordained holy day or celebration. It's not to be found in scripture. December 25th, according to Pope Gregory's man made calendar is recorded in history as the birthday of Molech, the sun god of Nimrod.

I hope this answers your questions. My God bless you in all understanding and wisdom.

Jesus said; "For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?" John 5:46-47

 

[just-us-2]

As I said a day ago, I started researching the Nicolaitans a few days ago and discovered that there is a lot of mere speculation floating around out there on the internet about who the Nicolaitans might have been, which doesn’t interest me at all. As I post comments on this thread my comments come mostly from historical and ecclesiastical historic sources, such as ​The History of the Christian Church, Volume II: Ante-Nicene Christianity, A.D. 100-325. The information can be found but it is harder to find than exposés written by some know-it-all self –proclaimed “Bible teacher” who has concocted an earthshaking essay based on assumptions of other people’s assumptions, based on assumptions of other people’s assumptions, based on assumptions of other people’s assumptions, and on and on they go.

The NICOLAITANS

Who are they?
Where the actual name ‘Nicolaitans’ came from is not definite. They were a heretical sect who some say were followers of the teachings of Nicolas—whose name means “one who conquers the people”. This Nicolas was one of the deacons spoken of in Acts 6:5. Seeing what the requirements were for a man to become a deacon, (“Brothers, choose seven men from among yourselves who are known to be full of the Spirit and wisdom… Acts 6:3), it does seem odd that a man full of the Holy Spirit, the major requirement, would go apostate. But it is possible that he did deny the true faith and associate himself with a group of people “holding the doctrine of Balaam,” who taught Israel “to sin by eating food sacrificed to idols and by committing sexual immorality."

However, according to The History of the Christian Church, Volume II: Ante-Nicene Christianity A.D. 100-325, the Nicolaitans are a licentious sect that claimed this same Nicolas as their founder. Clement of Alexandria (missionary theologian to the Greek cultural world) says, “They abandoned themselves to pleasure like goats, leading a life of self-indulgence.” Their teaching was a perversion of the grace of Almighty God. Yet, Clement said of this Nicolas that he was a faithful husband and raised his children in purity, but that his disciples misunderstood his saying, “that we must fight against the flesh and abuse it.”

Irenaeus (Haer. 1.26.3) basically repeats the biblical material, adding the assertion that the Nicolaitans were heretical followers of Nicolaus, the proselyte of Antioch who was chosen to be one of The Seven (Acts 6:5). Hippolytus (Haer. 7.24) underscores Irenaeus, adding that Nicolaus departed from true doctrine. Clement of Alexandria (Str. 2.20) claims that Nicolaus was an ascetic, and then current Nicolaitans were not his true followers because they perverted his teaching that it was necessary to abuse the flesh.
Because they include nothing else about the sect the importance of these early citations has been questioned by some scholars.

Other commentators believe that the label, “Nicolaitans” didn’t come from a man at all but from the Greek word Nicolah, meaning "let us eat," as they often encouraged each other to eat things offered to idols.

 

[Elin]

It is clear from the evidence that this heresy, which began as a small group, in the first century, mushroomed. . .What was the main crime of this church? Spiritual fornication – or spiritual adultery! Combining pagan practices and doctrines with the Word of God, or replacing the teachings of God’s Word with corrupt, pagan deceptions and lies, straight from the bowels of Satan persuasion!

God's people in the OT likewise engaged in the practices of Balaam.

And just as the pagan practices of Balaam practiced by Israel in the OT
have nothing to with believing Jews today,
so the pagan practices of Balaam practiced by the "Nicolatians" in the NT
have nothing to do with believing Christians today.

The false doctrine of the heretical JW cult is showing.

 

[Elin]

They (the doctrine of the nicolaitanes) have distorted the truth by incorporating pagan practices that have replaced Biblical truth.

A deceived mind brain-washed by the false doctrine of the heretical JW cult embraces this kind of
contra-NT nonsense and thinks it is pagan to commemorate Christ's resurrection and birth.

 

[Elin]

“Shenanigans” is an activity that began to escalate around the time of WW1. It is a movement of secret or dishonest activity or maneuvering. One could call the activity of the “Bilderbergers” (originating in England) a type of “Shenanigans.” They financed both sides during WW1, and are secretive to this very day. Both Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton attended one of their secret meetings before the presidential election in 2008. Shortly after, Hillary dropped out of the race, and Barack Obama was elected president of the United States. It is easy to deceive people these days. Why? For the most part, religious teachings avoid the law, and the populous is systematically ushered into ignorance by the “doctrine of the Nicolaitanes”.This renders the influence of the church to the surrounding community ineffective and unable to identify deception unlike they who were in the church of Ephesus in Revelation 2:6.

The Obama-Bilderberg Connection

Christians today are painted with the same brush-stroke, as being corrupt, immoral, and evil, because of “shenanigans” and wicked works of these “Nicolaitans,” but they are false Christians, false teachers who claim to represent Messiah and His truth.

“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways (having a harmful effect, especially in a gradual or subtle way); by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.” (II Peter 2:1-2).

Peter goes on, and says of them, “Presumptuous are they, self-willed, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.” with a brutish fruit “speak evil of the things that they understand not; spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;”. . . having “an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;” (II Peter 2:10 and 12-15)

This viper has many heads. . .

And we know who the viper is that prowls around seeking whom he may devour.

 

[Elin]

I agree!!
They are very hard, if not impossible to identify false pagan practices if we do not attribute to God's instructions in the law of the Pentateuch.

Yep. . .forget the rest of God's word. . .all God's law is contained in the Pentateuch.

Why am I not surpised?

You're not too obvious now, are you?

 

[Yet]

It seems we r dancing around the real crux of the matter. We can't seem to force ourselves to say it. The clerical/laity system equals the deeds of the Nicolaitans. Take this heresy away. And just about every 'church' in the world would go into freefall!

I pretty much quit reading T. Austin Sparks. He would detail the consequences of this heresy but would not come right out and say what it is.

Sad! The body is suffering from a dose of rat poison but don't tell the body that it's rat poisoning causing the suffering! Go figure.
Maybe he knew he'd never get inside another 'church' again if he actually shined the light on the diabolical source.

 

[Elin]

Beware of doctrines that preach and teach that some parts of God's word has been made void, have been abolished, or have vanished away.

Yep. . .be careful of God's word in Eph 2:15 and Heb 8:13 which state just that regarding the Mosaic regulations and the old covenant, respectively.

The NT word of God certainly cannot be trusted--according to the false doctrine of the heretical JW cult.

Not to obvious now, are you?

 

[Elin]

What, like Paul?

Col 2
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;


A long time ago I wanted to find out about Nicolaitanism, because Jesus hates it, and I didn't want to do it unwittingly.

As someone said earlier it means "power over the laity" which means that the distinction between clergy and laity, and power of one over the other, is not allowed in the true church of God.

However, the Nicolatians were followers of some guy named Nicolas.

That doesn't translate into "power over the laity," that translates into "followers of Nicolas."

There is misinformation going on here.

 

[just-me]

It seems we r dancing around the real crux of the matter. We can't seem to force ourselves to say it. The clerical/laity system equals the deeds of the Nicolaitans. Take this heresy away. And just about every 'church' in the world would go into freefall!

I pretty much quit reading T. Austin Sparks. He would detail the consequences of this heresy but would not come right out and say what it is.

Sad! The body is suffering from a dose of rat poison but don't tell the body that it's rat poisoning causing the suffering! Go figure.
Maybe he knew he'd never get inside another 'church' again if he actually shined the light on the diabolical source.

Right you are!!
The Bible tells us that great multitudes of heathen had become Christians and had carried some of their old ideas into their new religion. They warped the celebration of the Lord’s Supper into a re-sacrifice / re-offering of Christ’s once-for-all sacrifice. Jesus’ perfect sacrifice abolished the need of a formal priesthood (Hebrews 10:12-14), creating instead a “kingdom of priests” (Revelation 1:6 and 5:10 the making of “God kings and priests”). The early church, again influenced by paganism, re-established a priesthood that added a barrier between the “ordinary” believer and God. “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;” “And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament” (1 Timothy 2:5 and Hebrews 9:15a.)

These are just two examples of pagan distortion.

Naturally there were all sorts of attempts to harmonize these heathen practices with the Christian religion. Many professing Christian teachers, claiming inspiration from God, were advocating the right to free participation in heathen immoralities. In Ephesus, the Christian pastors, as a body, excluded such teachers. But within the ranks of the churches of Pergamum and Thyatira they tolerated those who did.

Ancient Pergamos was a city where the worship of Zeus and Asclepios were endemic, whose symbol was a serpent entwined around a rod or staff – the symbol seen today in the medical profession. It was a city where paganism and politics were closely entwined and allied. Nicolaitan pressures were very strong in this city where pressures to “compromise” would have been very heavy.

This practice of Zeus is identified in scripture when the brass serpent that God told Moses to erect was turned into a pagan idol.

“And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.” (Numbers 21:9)

“He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan.” (2 Kings 18:4)

“It’s possible that the serpent-cult existed side-by-side with Yahweh in the form of oracular shrines, just as oracular shrines existed side-by-side with temples of Zeus and so on in Greece and Rome. Yahweh may have been identified with the serpent-god only in that the serpent was a "pedestal" for Yahweh. Worshippers imagined Yahweh to be standing upon the idol unseen. The same idea applied for the golden calf. Animal depictions served as a "connection" to the deity but were not the deity itself. Nehushtan was never meant to replace Yahweh, but to be a channel of Yahweh, i.e. a "way opener" related to “watchtowers” **(meditation required at this point [SELAH]) and water columns and pipes and in general the heavens. The serpent marked the way to the after life.”

**So much for the JW allegation, HUH Elin?

http://home.earthlink.net/~danielsage17/nehushtan.htm

see this post

 

[presidente]

It seems we r dancing around the real crux of the matter. We can't seem to force ourselves to say it. The clerical/laity system equals the deeds of the Nicolaitans. Take this heresy away. And just about every 'church' in the world would go into freefall!

I pretty much quit reading T. Austin Sparks. He would detail the consequences of this heresy but would not come right out and say what it is.

Sad! The body is suffering from a dose of rat poison but don't tell the body that it's rat poisoning causing the suffering! Go figure.
Maybe he knew he'd never get inside another 'church' again if he actually shined the light on the diabolical source.

Why does the word 'likewise' connect them with another group that taught sexual immorality and eating meat offered to idols?

WHy don't you interpret their name to mean they dominated the people with the actual false teachings mentioned in the passage. There is no reason to think that this particular group were about having senior pastors or monarchical bishops. There are plenty of other scriptures to refer to on those topics without having to read a pet doctrine into a text like this, like the Plymouth Brethren, Christodelphians, and other groups have done.

 

[Elin]

Yes, like Paul. Acts 24:14 Good post! Thank you. Right you are.

"But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:"

And written in the law and the prophets was the coming of the Messiah and a new covenant.

That Messiah gave his two laws (Mt 22:37-39; 1Co 9:21; Gal 6:2; Jas 2:8) for the new covenant
(Lk 22:20), obedience to which is obedience to all God's laws (Mt 22:40; Ro 13:8, 9, 10).

And that Messiah personally revealed to Paul that he "abolished in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations" (Eph 2:15), so that the Mosaic regulations are no longer operative.

Your job is to believe the NT word of God presented in the Scriptures above, not setting the false doctrine of the heretical JW cult above it.

Colossians 2:14

"He forgave us all our sins , having cancelled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross." (Col 2:14)

 

[Elin]

All the historical accounts of the "teachings of the Nicolaitans" point to laciviousness.
None of them point to the Judaizers.

Both are errors.
Just because this one portion of Scripture points out
the heresies of those who preach Grace as a license to sin,
does not mean that it corroborates the teachings of
those who would place themselves back under the Old Covenant.

It does in the minds of those who believe the false doctrine of the heretical JW cult.

Why did this discussion devolve into a debate over the purpose of the Law in the NT Church?

The whole thinly-veiled purpose of this thread is to prove the Mosaic regulations are still in effect for NT believers, according to the false doctrine of the heretical JW cult.

 

[just-us-2]

It does in the minds of those who believe the false doctrine of the heretical JW cult.


The whole thinly-veiled purpose of this thread is to prove the Mosaic regulations are still in effect for NT believers,
according to the false doctrine of the heretical JW cult.

It is about time you quit accusing others of belonging to the JW denomination. It appears you have rested from accusing some of us of belonging to the HRM for a while - that's a nice break - now, stop lying to everyone on these threads.

The purpose of this thread was to warn decent, sincere believers that they have been taught much that comes from the Nicolaitan doctrine so they can repent of that evil. You are the one who constantly turns what should be edifying posts into argumentative hateful rhetoric.

It is also time you grow up and start acting like a responsible adult - and I will make this B-I-G stretch and say,a responsible adult Christian who bears the fruit of the Spirit...yeah, too big of a stretch I guess.