Is it possible for a true Christian to one day no longer believe in God?

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Is it possible for a genuine believer in Christ to one day no longer believe?

  • Yes (and they will still be saved)

    Votes: 1 3.7%

  • Yes (but they will no longer be saved)

    Votes: 14 51.9%

  • No (they either never believed or are in denial)

    Votes: 12 44.4%
  • Total voters
    27
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nogard

Senior Member
#1
Aug 21, 2013
331
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#1
I phrased this topic a little differently than the question is usually put. But what I want to do in this topic is discuss the topic of people who no longer believe after having put their faith in Christ and having lived for Him for quite some time. Basically, is there such a thing as a genuine ex-Christian? By definition here, that is someone who had genuinely accepted Christ as their Savior, but now no longer believes.

Do you think it's possible? Do you think it's not possible? If anyone has any Scripture to throw into the discussion, I'd be interested to see that as well.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#2
Jul 3, 2015
55,874
26,035
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#2
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They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.[/TD]
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G

Gr8grace

Guest
#3
#3
Magenta said:
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They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.[/TD]
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And this doesn't indicate that they were not really saved. Johns Churches were doctrinal churches. He did not tickle ears.

Today is a great example for believers leaving true doctrine and going to some other place to have their ears tickled. It in no way indicates that they were not saved.
 
N

nogard

Senior Member
#4
Aug 21, 2013
331
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#4
Magenta said:
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They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.[/TD]
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That doesn't necessarily speak to belief, I don't know, I guess the definition of the word "belong" there would be important to indicate what that verse is saying.

What I'm confused about though is how no longer believing can somehow nullify your previous belief? I mean, when you stop believing in Santa Claus, does that mean you never believed in Santa Claus? When people deconvert from Islam to Christianity or Atheism to Christianity, does that mean they were never truly Muslims or atheists?
 
T_Laurich

T_Laurich

Senior Member
#5
Mar 24, 2013
3,356
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#5
Some people go to colleges that are geared mainly towards sports...
It does not mean they play sports or like sports...

Some people go to colleges that are known for partying...
It does not mean the people who go there party, or are partiers, or like partying.

Likewise some people go to colleges that are geared towards academics....
It does not mean they value knowledge, or that they have knowledge.
 
N

nogard

Senior Member
#6
Aug 21, 2013
331
2
0
#6
T_Laurich said:
Some people go to colleges that are geared mainly towards sports...
It does not mean they play sports or like sports...

Some people go to colleges that are known for partying...
It does not mean the people who go there party, or are partiers, or like partying.

Likewise some people go to colleges that are geared towards academics....
It does not mean they value knowledge, or that they have knowledge.
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Forgive me for my ignorance. I'm not seeing how this anecdote correlates to the discussion. I mean, I have an idea, but you're going to have to connect the dots.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#7
Jul 3, 2015
55,874
26,035
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#7
Gr8grace said:
And this doesn't indicate that they were not really saved.
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What does none of them belonged to us mean?

Today is a great example for believers leaving true doctrine and going to some other place to have their ears tickled. It in no way indicates that they were not saved.
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Leaving one place for another is no indication of belief one way or another. I have met a few people who claim to believe they had been born again of the Spirit of God, and spent decades in service to Him, only to eventually bitterly renounce their faith, and become vociferous opponents to it. Only God knows their hearts.
 
G

Gr8grace

Guest
#8
#8
Peters denial..........did he no longer believe or was he afraid of the persecution?

I think a believer can convince themselves and others that they no longer believe. But Christ saved them the moment they believed. Idiots are going to be stuck in their salvation whether they like it or not. I don't understand how a believer can think this way............but Jesus Christ tells us how He thinks about salvation........He will never leave you nor forsake you.
 
N

nogard

Senior Member
#9
Aug 21, 2013
331
2
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#9
I guess the problem I have is, what makes that person's faith ingenuine all of a sudden?

I mean, if they truly believed in Jesus Christ as their savior - loved God, followed God, read His Word, prayed, fellowshipped with believers. If in their hearts, they viewed Christ as their master, their savior, their Lord. What makes them different from anybody else during that time? How exactly were they not saved? How exactly were they being deceived? Someone who would clearly be classified as being a Christian by any standard all of a sudden never was simply because they no longer believe. It just doesn't make sense.
 
T_Laurich

T_Laurich

Senior Member
#10
Mar 24, 2013
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#10
nogard said:
Forgive me for my ignorance. I'm not seeing how this anecdote correlates to the discussion. I mean, I have an idea, but you're going to have to connect the dots.
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Just because someone attends something for an extended amount of time does not mean they are the cliche' or that they have the same ideals as the place...

You ever hear the saying "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink"?

Well you can cast seeds everywhere but you can't make them grow... Just because on the surface the soil looks fertile and moist and healthy... It does not mean that there are not rocks under it...




A person could go to a sports college because it's the closest or cheapest college around...

Or go to a sports college because a friend goes there or their family wants them there...


Where a person goes to church does not determine their relationship with God... It can help their knowledge and understanding yes, but the relationship with God is between them and God...

Edit: and I think we would all agree, that Satan has some understanding of God... After all if the church determines the outcome... Satan was in the throne room of God...
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#11
Jul 3, 2015
55,874
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#11
Gr8grace said:
Peters denial..........did he no longer believe or was he afraid of the persecution?
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I can't help thinking that Peter's denial being pre-resurrection has some bearing on the matter.
 
T_Laurich

T_Laurich

Senior Member
#12
Mar 24, 2013
3,356
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#12
Stumbling is not the same as "no longer believing in God"... Just my two cents on Peters Denial...
 
secularhermit

secularhermit

Banned
#13
May 3, 2013
8,719
75
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#13
Possible!

But I´m not God to say: "You´re saved" (neither that "I´m saved") untill the last breath.
 
G

Gr8grace

Guest
#14
#14
Magenta said:
What does none of them belonged to us mean?

Leaving one place for another is no indication of belief one way or another. I have met a few people who claim to believe they had been born again of the Spirit of God, and spent decades in service to Him, only to eventually bitterly renounce their faith, and become vociferous opponents to it. Only God knows their hearts.
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"None of them belonged to us".......they were not positive to the word of God and went back to the cosmic system. They weren't self motivated. They were loser believers as compared to the winner believers that John addressed earlier.


As to your second part. I agree. we can't, nor can John call these folks "unsaved" only God knows. Which indicates that John knows they are saved and is talking about their experiential sanctification.John was positive and so were a lot of his congregation, negative believers are never part of positive believers congregations.

This forum is a perfect example. There are positive believers and negative believers here, and are not a part of each other. Are either side unsaved? No. Granted there are some unbelievers posting on these forums........but John was dealing with saved persons. They were either positive or negative in their Growth.
 
T_Laurich

T_Laurich

Senior Member
#15
Mar 24, 2013
3,356
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#15
secularhermit said:
Possible!

But I´m not God to say: "You´re saved" (neither that "I´m saved") untill the last breath.
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1John 5:13
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.



Read 1John and you can say whether you do or don't... :)
 
G

Gr8grace

Guest
#16
#16
Magenta said:
I can't help thinking that Peter's denial being pre-resurrection has some bearing on the matter.
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Salvation has always been by faith alone in Christ alone.
 
Agricola

Agricola

Senior Member
#17
Dec 10, 2012
2,638
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#17
Gr8grace said:
Peters denial..........did he no longer believe or was he afraid of the persecution?
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Most likely afraid of being rounded up and executed, it was a scary time to be one of the disciples or even just someone who followed Christ.
I think a believer can convince themselves and others that they no longer believe. But Christ saved them the moment they believed. Idiots are going to be stuck in their salvation whether they like it or not. I don't understand how a believer can think this way............but Jesus Christ tells us how He thinks about salvation........He will never leave you nor forsake you.
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[/quote]

If you know something is real, then you can ignore it, but you will never come to think its not real. People can ignore God, I did for quite a few years, but Christ is the perfect Good Shepherd and as we are his sheep, that is those who are genuine born again, will not be abandoned, there will always be that voice calling out to you. Prodigal Son is perfect example.
 
G

Gr8grace

Guest
#18
#18
Agricola said:
Most likely afraid of being rounded up and executed, it was a scary time to be one of the disciples or even just someone who followed Christ.
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Agricola said:
If you know something is real, then you can ignore it, but you will never come to think its not real. People can ignore God, I did for quite a few years, but Christ is the perfect Good Shepherd and as we are his sheep, that is those who are genuine born again, will not be abandoned, there will always be that voice calling out to you. Prodigal Son is perfect example.
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I agree for the most part. But as believers we have the sin unto death for divine discipline. This means that believers can and do make the choice to go completely negative towards Gods. I believe God never stops prompting the individual, but the negative believer never stops ignoring the prompting............which leads to the divine discipline of physical death for the believer.
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#19
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,188
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#19
Not possible.

A true Christian was/is saved by God. A person can't just pretend it never happened.

It would be like un-knowing something, or un-seeing something. Can't be done.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#20
Jul 3, 2015
55,874
26,035
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#20
Gr8grace said:
Salvation has always been by faith alone in Christ alone.
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What does Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." Romans 4:3
 
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